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Lexus LFA: A lost decade and a sales dud

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Old 05-26-11, 10:11 AM
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05RollaXRS
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Default Lexus LFA: A lost decade and a sales dud

This article is just so ridiculous, it is not even funny. Shoddy journalism at its best:

http://www.motorauthority.com/news/1...de-a-sales-dud


There's no denying the Lexus LFA is far and away the greatest combination of engineering feats achieved by Toyota outside of its Formula 1 ventures. In fact, it uses many of the lessons learned in the sport. But for all of its technological prowess, was the LFA a waste of time, money, and effort?

The question was prompted by our observations of many LFAs present at track demonstrations and other events. This struck us as unusual because the LFA is an extremely limited-production vehicle. Just 500 examples were to be built from the outset, at a rate of only a handful per month hand-built by Lexus' top-level technicians. Typically, such cars are hard to find at all, much less being put to hard use on track. It's all the more bizarre considering the full run was supposedly spoken for, or nearly so, very early on. What need is there to entice buyers of a car that's already sold out?

Part of it could be explained by Lexus' stated desire to see the cars on track, doing what they were built for, not moldering in a collector's garage. But not all of it--there had to be something else at work. So we contacted Lexus' American arm and asked about production and sales figures. The results were surprising.

Slow sales?
Only 90 LFAs have been built to date for worldwide sales. Of those, 22 have been delivered to the U.S. Lexus says it doesn't know precisely how many have been delivered world wide, as some may still be in transit. Even allowing that all built are spoken for, there's still another 410 units to go in its limited run.

The LFA has been in production since last December. At the current rate, it will take another 27-28 months for the remaining 410 cars to be built. That will extend its run into the end of 2013--not at all unheard of for any car, especially a hyper-limited run of very expensive cars. The nearly $2 million Bugatti Veyron, for example, has been in production since 2003 for a run of just 300 cars, including the many special editions. Even so, the rate of LFA production now sits at about 15 cars per month, short of Lexus' stated production goal of 20 per month. With each car intended to be built to order, to the customer's precise specifications, operating below theoretical capacity indicates a shortfall in demand. [Update: Lexus wrote us to point out that LFA production, like most other industries in Japan, was disrupted for some time due to the earthquake and tsunami that ravaged the country. It's a fair point and does explain some of the shortfall in output and sales, though perhaps not all. Time will tell about the remainder.]

There were reports last year--quickly reversed by Lexus--that the LFA had sold out, despite its hefty $375,000 price tag and, in the U.S., restrictive leasing conditions. Even though Lexus corrected the erroneous sold-out status, it indicated, vaguely, that only a few slots were remaining. So how, then, could we formulate our question in such cold terms?

It's simple, really: compared to other cars of its performance caliber and status, the LFA is barely selling at all. Lamborghini's recently-released Aventador, for instance, has already sold the entirety of its first-year allotment of cars through pre-order--before it was even available for testing. Likewise, the Ferrari FF's full year's run of 800 cars sold out in pre-order as well. The Aventador sells for about $370,000, while the FF sells in the neighborhood of $360,000, putting both on equal footing with the LFA in price.

Image is everything
Does it come down to the much-discussed brand cachet issue? Everyone knows the status and impact the Ferrari and Lamborghini marques carry, thanks in part to their perennial stratospheric market positions. Lexus, on the other hand, was introduced in America--a decidedly gauche nation, to many outside eyes--as an affordable luxury brand that nonetheless delivered the amenities of the good life. Can that same brand pull off a halo supercar so far removed from its brethren? Though unsubstantiated by data, that is a popular sentiment among the media and supercar owners alike. Other explanations, such as relative performance (Ferrari and Lamborghini both make cars that will run with the LFA for about half the price) weigh in as well.

Whatever the cause, the slow sales prompt the question: was the LFA worth it to Lexus? Considering the massive investment of time and R&D budget in the project, plus the projected loss of money on every car sold, the failure of the car to resonate with its ostensible intended market may be the strongest indicator that it wasn't.

Lexus has delivered a handful of justifications for the LFA project over the years: it washes the lower-run Lexus performance cars in a sheen of the truly exotic; it serves as a proving ground for next-generation construction and technology; it raises the brand's perception as a whole among the upper echelon of the automotive elite. Well and good, assuming any of these prove true (and, as noted above, we have reason to believe they haven't so far). But how does the return compare to the investment?

A decade of development
To measure that, we have to look at what Lexus put into the LFA. Development began in early 2000, with three years of research and testing before the first prototype was built in mid-2003. Another two years of study elapsed before the first concept car appeared in January 2005, at the Detroit Auto Show. Even then, it was clearly a concept; side-mirrors were replaced by cameras, a heavy and impractical (in super/sports car terms) glass roof was fitted.

Despite rumors of its production-intent status, the car stagnated. Over the next two years, it underwent a radical redesign, switching from a more conventional aluminum frame to a carbon fiber basis due to growing weight concerns. The first of the redesigned LFA concept cars showed in January 2007, again in Detroit. At the same show, the Lexus IS-F debuted, the first--and thus far, only--example of Lexus' long-rumored F Performance line. If the goal were simply to bathe the IS-F in the light of the LFA's technical excellence, the job could have been considered complete at that point--the proof of concept showed Lexus had the technical and design capability.

But it wasn't to end there: over the course of 2007, the powertrain became the subject of vacillation and change. The 2005 concept was touted as generating "more than 500 horsepower" from an engine displacing "less than five liters," though exactly what form that engine would take--V-8, V-10, something else--was not revealed. The 2007 concept brought with it the promise of a V-10 layout. But between the 2007 concept and the 2008 Roadster concept, there were indications that Lexus was considering a possible V-8 engine paired with a hybrid drivetrain not unlike the LS600h L's. Yet another sinkhole for R&D dollars, and one that ultimately bore no fruit.

Returning again to Detroit, in 2008, the LF-A Roadster concept was unveiled, cementing the role of the V-10 engine, but this time showing it without the top. Lexus intended it, along with the dramatically restyled exterior details, to demonstrate the realm of possibilities enabled by the LFA's new-found carbon fiber construction. Though it isn't clear that the Roadster was ever intended for series production, it was this model that debuted many of the production-oriented design features of the car. One has to wonder how much time and effort was sunk into making it a suitable stiff, competent supercar in drop-top form.

Move forward another year to 2009 and the industry, fully in the midst of freefall, and still Lexus marched forward at its achingly slow pace with the LFA. In October, the production model was finally revealed at the Tokyo Motor Show. The order books opened two days after its debut, but even then, it would be another 14 months before the LFA finally entered production.

Was it all worth it?
Throughout this arduous, decade-long development process, Lexus pumped untold amounts of money into the LFA. Billions of dollars would not be beyond the pale. Lexus has never disclosed the exact figure. And still, after all of it, the LFA came to market at twice the price of cars at performance parity--and Lexus is losing money on each one, adding further to its expense.

Now, at the culmination of the project, it's worth looking back and asking if that expense was worth it--if it can, even possibly, deliver on the goals placed at the outset.

Undeniably, the LFA is a feat of engineering and design. Its high-tech carbon fiber and aluminum underpinnings lie near the outer boundary of technological feasibility even today, nearly two full years after its final production form was revealed. Its engine is a thing of sonorous beauty, inspired by the F1 program that went defunct in the same year the LFA was finalized, ripping 9,000 rpm out of its 4.8-liter displacement on the way to 552 horsepower and 354 pound-feet of torque. The high-tech instrument panel looks and behaves like something from the near future.

But it took Lexus 10 full years to reach this point, and a budget that would likely amount to the full purchase price of the entire organizations of either Ferrari or Lamborghini. And for all its aspects of technical advancement, it lags noticeably in others: it uses a hydraulically-actuated single-clutch transmission, for example, rather than the advanced dual-clutches of most of the competition; its suspension is fixed, unlike the dynamic systems fitted to many other supercars, much less the pushrod suspension of the Aventador; its outright performance is matched or eclipsed by perhaps the lowest-tech of all supercars, the Corvette ZR1, a mere one-third the price of the LFA; its carbon fiber tub is matched or surpassed by the carbon fiber monocoque of the Aventador; on measures of power, torque, top speed, and acceleration, it's a full generation behind the top tier of supercars.

To fall short, then, despite this massive investment of time and money, seems to paint Lexus' technical ability in a different light. Despite applying what appears to be near-limitless resources for a decade, Lexus was unable to deliver a car to fully compete with, let alone dominate, the competition. Further, it was unable to do it at a profit on the individual cars sold, much less the project as a whole. In fact, viewed from this perspective, the whole LFA endeavor seems to fit more securely with the reality and, in the wake of the many recalls of the last two years, acknowledged self-image it not long ago promised to correct: that of a mired bureaucracy, hamstrung by its own internal inefficiencies, bent on leading the world but blinded by its own insularity.

Last edited by 05RollaXRS; 05-26-11 at 10:22 AM.
Old 05-26-11, 10:39 AM
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Oh dear



I see what he was trying to say but it simply wasn't well thought out at all. Seems something to make the Lexus/LFA haters dance with joy and do a jig drunk off cheap Mad Dog 20/20 and Swisher Sweets more than anything.
Old 05-26-11, 10:44 AM
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rominl
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lol finally someone posted this one up. some of the points are exaggerated and some aren't entirely right. but on quite a few points he hit it on the nail
Old 05-26-11, 10:49 AM
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Originally Posted by rominl
lol finally someone posted this one up. some of the points are exaggerated and some aren't entirely right. but on quite a few points he hit it on the nail
From what I can see, it is full of factual errors and misrepresentation of facts.

The only thing I seem to find some weight in is the performance and handling figures (which is entirely Lexus' fault) for underestimating the significance of having the right performance and track figures in order to set the image of the car in the proper light. There would be no way he would have the audacity to say "LFA performance/handling numbers are a generation behind".

Objectivity can never be denied, subjectivity can easily be. Unfortunately, Lexus entirely relied on subjectivity to do build the image and to sell it.

Last edited by 05RollaXRS; 05-26-11 at 10:58 AM.
Old 05-26-11, 11:01 AM
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Halo cars are just that; the pinnacle of design, function and performance a marque puts out to the public. I agree with many of the observations regarding duration of the project, redirected design, and objective performance that merely matches the best out there at a premium that can't be justified by numbers alone. That said, I've yet to see a review or comment from a driver that doesn't state the car is far more than the sum of it's stats.

The fact that Toyo/Lexus committed its resources and cash to such a project is possibly the most impressive aspect of the LFA. It truly flies in the face of "Lexus is boring as a marque." When Ferrari or Lamborghini pull off a reliable $25k sedan that gets 40+ mpg, I'll be impressed in the other direction.

Is the LFA the top of the supercar heap? Not by any standard measure, but if I had the free cash to own one, I would.
Old 05-26-11, 11:45 AM
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Did the author drive the LFA? We have discussed in this forum many times that this car is not all about the numbers, only seat time would tell the full story.
While he has a good point regarding the slow sales in the US martket, he either doesn't know about the demand in Japan or chose to ignore it. The slow sales idea would have been completely pointless (or at least because Lexus chose to follow this path).
Also, I wonder if TommyJames can tell us if the Aventador is really selling in the US market?
Last but not least, the author challenged the LFA design points without at least consulting with the chief engineer. Most of the article read like a collection of ideas picked up from chat forums.
Old 05-26-11, 11:48 AM
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Originally Posted by 07grIS350
Most of the article read like a collection of ideas picked up from chat forums.
Exactly. It's one thing to be disappointed with a car. Certainly another to put it down.
Old 05-26-11, 11:55 AM
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Though, I agree he never drove the LFA, for sure and is pulling stuff out of his behind.

Originally Posted by 07grIS350
Did the author drive the LFA? We have discussed in this forum many times that this car is not all about the numbers
I think this is where this forum is split in half. Neither school of thought is incorrect.

Some people don't think numbers are not very important while others think it is a very significant part of the equation atleast for the people at large who will never buy the car, but have a voice especially when it comes to creation of image and impressions since this is the only measure of objectivity in terms of how "fast or slow" it is relatively speaking otherwise, 300 HP will perfectly be sufficient to fulfill all the subjective criteria.

I cannot count places where people pick the official lap times of other cars and take the sportauto 7:38 of Lexus LFA to compare and conclude it is too slow compared to cars that cost a fraction. Ofcourse, if LFA's 7:21 - 7:22 that chief engineer claimed in his twitter chat were made the official lap time, no one would ever be able to question Lexus' integrity since at the time of production, the results do all the talking.

Last edited by 05RollaXRS; 05-26-11 at 12:06 PM.
Old 05-26-11, 12:09 PM
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Originally Posted by 05RollaXRS
This article is just so ridiculous, it is not even funny. Shoddy journalism at its best:
It's another typical LFA-bashing article written in the mindset of finding things about the LFA to hate. I mean, seriously, measuring the success of such a vehicle based on financials?? It's like he'd rather Toyota just kept building the Camry and Prius!
Old 05-26-11, 12:14 PM
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x 2

I really hope Lexus is planning for a 2nd generation Lexus LFA. Eventually, people will learn to accept that Lexus is a major player in the European-dominated market.


Originally Posted by gengar
It's another typical LFA-bashing article written in the mindset of finding things about the LFA to hate. I mean, seriously, measuring the success of such a vehicle based on financials?? It's like he'd rather Toyota just kept building the Camry and Prius!
Old 05-26-11, 12:28 PM
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Originally Posted by gengar
It's another typical LFA-bashing article written in the mindset of finding things about the LFA to hate. I mean, seriously, measuring the success of such a vehicle based on financials?? It's like he'd rather Toyota just kept building the Camry and Prius!
Exactly. How rare in today's world we have true engineering led efforts with no budget limit. A showcase for the company. The LFA should be celebrated on all levels. It seems to be easier to bash the company that BUILT the car instead of the companies that pussied out (Honda/Acura NSX, Infiinti Essence). How come there is no article bashing BMW for not offering a vehicle in this realm? No, lets bash the company that had the ***** to build it. I've yet to really read an article ripping Honda apart a new one for the NSX. I love it like most people with a logical head but the facts are, the car didn't push Acura into any upper Tier and it lost 800 million allegedly and there is simply no halo for a brand today that has 3 sedans and 3 SUVs. Where is that article?

He never recognized what even Lexus will tell you. The best thing Toyota had built was the Supra. The LFA is nothing like a Supra. They literally started from scratch and used F1 knowledge. Its not like a company like Ferrari or Lambo that has always built these cars. If a Camry takes 5 years to develop wtf do people think a LFA would take? I didn't seem them bash the GT-R or the Veryron for taking 8 years to arrive either. Has the GT-R helped Nissan? Has Bugatti helped VW? Has the R8 helped Audi? What about the SLR? Where are those articles?

Why should a company be bashed for going all out and moving to carbon-fiber in the middle of development b/c they felt it was BETTER even if it was costlier? If the car was aluminum, the same people would say "the car should be carbon fiber"

I also think he was way off saying no one knows or sees the car. I don't think any exotic has been so liberally used in the hands of people as the LFA. Lexus set up events all over the world where not only do reviewers and potential customers get to see/drive/touch, but just about ANYONE. I've read reviews all over from people that got a chance to experience it that were not originally fans and came away blown away. Lexus has put this car in the hands of so many enthusiasts, this should be commended!!

This is a 375k supercar from a brand best known for the LS and RX. Did anyone really think they wouldn't have trouble selling a few? Its pretty obvious in this economic climate from a brand with no heritage here they would have trouble. Quite gotdamn frankly its ASTONISHING they sold one. Where is the kudos, the credit? I dare let Acura or Infiniti or Saab or Lincoln or Cadillac to sell at this price.They can barely sell 50k cars! BMW has nothing in this realm and Benz struggled with the SLR which never met sales goals either FYI. Notice the SLS is not as advanced and costs less than the SLR/LFA. Lexus has pushed the Asian cars further than ANY OTHER BRAND and instead of it getting kudos and credit, people try to rip them down in any way. Its ridiculous.

If there was no Lexus, Asian luxury would be a complete joke. Now here is Lexus with the ONLY ASIAN supercar, another first, the interpretation of the Japanese supercar. No one else had the ***** to do it. Yet people and this writer wants to poke holes at it?

We live in a ****ing age where stock cars have 1,000hp and you can modify a car to 1,000hp. We have cars that lap the Ring now faster than Osama said "****" when he heard that door knock. Did he or anyone expect the LFA to break any records? Seriously? So the basis for failure is b/c it didn't create some new record or so? Mind you he either hasn't read or ignored the reviews saying the LFA is the most special, the most raw or visceral? EVO gave the LFA so much praise it was almost shocking to read. They absolutely adored the car. We are to believe a guy that hasn't even touched the gotdamn door handle?

We are simply noticing a continuing trend of bloggers and websites writing bash Toyota/Lexus articles that began with the recalls. When they saw how many hits they got, they now find ways to continue the bashing. This is no different than the recently Japelonk article with the dumbass title bringing up Buick that had NOTHING to do with the Lexus dealer attachment.

The beautiful thing about the country and the Internet is it gives everyone a voice but sadly not everyone has true things of value to add.

Last edited by LexFather; 05-26-11 at 12:34 PM.
Old 05-26-11, 12:43 PM
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Well damn Mike....

lol can feel the heat coming from the keyboard, but nicely put....
Old 05-26-11, 12:49 PM
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Originally Posted by 05RollaXRS
From what I can see, it is full of factual errors and misrepresentation of facts.

The only thing I seem to find some weight in is the performance and handling figures (which is entirely Lexus' fault) for underestimating the significance of having the right performance and track figures in order to set the image of the car in the proper light. There would be no way he would have the audacity to say "LFA performance/handling numbers are a generation behind".

Objectivity can never be denied, subjectivity can easily be. Unfortunately, Lexus entirely relied on subjectivity to do build the image and to sell it.
read my post again, i didn't say everything is true, did i? but at the same time, there are points he's right like sales. and i did say on some stuff he's totally exaggerating.

there was a good reason why i decided not to post up the article here, and it's shown pretty well in this thread. not that i don't agree with some of the points / arguments posted, i do. but the scale and tone is well in line

Last edited by rominl; 05-26-11 at 12:56 PM.
Old 05-26-11, 01:05 PM
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Originally Posted by oohpapi44
Well damn Mike....

lol can feel the heat coming from the keyboard, but nicely put....
And please understand there are some questionable things about the LFA and I'm not saying in anyway its the greatest car in the world. There is no denying the fact the price is eye-watering for most for a "Lexus" no matter what the engineering. Yeah it doesn't have Michelin tires, it doesn't have a dual clutch, etc etc. We can question a million things like we can every car.

Top Gear made a statement to the effect that "that God there are still cars and people that love cars so much they make something as maddening as the LFA". They acknowledge it had some faults but being TRUE ENTHUSIASTS they welcome the car, even if 1 gotdamn car is sold. Its STIG'S favorite for crying out loud.

You want to get famous for 10 minutes, write an article blasting Toyota/Lexus, watch it get linked all over the internet. Look at the writers at Jaepowhogivesa**** with another flame baiting, ridiculous title

Is the Lexus LFA today’s Jaguar XJ220?

http://jalopnik.com/5805471/is-the-l...s-jaguar-xj220


This "writer" didn't even acknowledge the XJ220 and Jaguar went to court b/c Jaguar promised a V-12, not a TT V-6, even if it was capable. The stories are completely different. We know the XJ 220 didn't spawn anything for Jaguar and the company was bought by Ford.

The low level flame bait being written and posted as news on these websites is **** poor and 3rd grade level at best. They do anything to get hits and nothing TRULY THOUGHT PROVOKING. Everyone thinks they are Jeremy Clarkson.

So at this point there is only one thing to do. Write my own gotdamn "report"here, link it to their own sites to explain why they are idiots. Then I will also write a proper "critque" of the LFA showing how you write "report". At least let Club Lexus get some hits for their **** poor writing.

More to come

Edit my write-up

https://www.clublexus.com/forums/lfa...lexus-lfa.html

Last edited by LexFather; 05-27-11 at 10:31 PM.
Old 05-26-11, 01:18 PM
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I never understood Lexus' persistence with selling 171 - 173 LFAs in the US when there were so many other markets that were asking for more allocations because of their allocated LFAs were sold out?


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