TRDFantasy

Really? Has a production LFA been tested against a ZR1, Viper ACR, and 458? I'll answer that for you, no it has not. Those videos you posted mean nothing.

When we see comparison tests involving a PRODUCTION LFA and some of these other cars, then we can talk.

Also what about the LFA 'Ring Edition? You're comparing the special version of the Viper to a regular LFA? Why don't we throw in the 'Ring Edition LFA as comparison too. We don't know yet what the performance of the 'Ring Edition LFA is like compared to a regular LFA, but we do know it's faster.

A GTR with $1500 put into it will destroy and LFA "in every fashion"? Really? If If I was a betting man, I would have loved to bet you in real life on this, because you would be wrong. First off, no matter how much money you spend on a GTR, it's throttle response and engine sound will never be as good as the LFA. Craftsmanship and quality will never be as good as the LFA either. Also, I would bet than an LFA would smoke even a modded GTR in cornering and braking.

Using your logic, with a used Camaro and $60-70K put into it would destroy a GTR in every fashion. What's your point?

IMHO you don't seem like the type of person that appreciates or is even a target buyer for an exotic supercar.

If you're bringing up price value in a discussion about super-high-priced exotic supercars, IMO your points hold very little credibility.

MRxSLAYx

The logic applies to many cars in the manor that your applying it. I looking at it from a slightly different angle because im comparing the price of the competition. If you look at the post that the Rolla guy just posted, you'll see that the LFA is compared to cars that are considerably cheaper. Essentially all im saying is that the LFA is a competitive platform that is remarkably higher than the competition. IMO the price difference is too high to justify the performance in relation to the competition.
You think my ISF is a dedicated drag racing car? Ill just consider your comment joke and leave you with a funny one... My car can go the grocery store with 4 people in it, run low 11s at the track on reduced power, and mess around on a road coarse in the same day. Considering that for under 3k my car can beat 132mph cars from a roll, i dont think its a bad bang for buck daily. In all honestly, my rims cost more than my simple performance mods.

Thanks for posting the information. All you had to do in the first place. I dont read German so ill try and find a translated version of the article.

1. The videos i posted mean nothing because an LFA has never lapped the nurburing and went down a 1/4th mile. Sure thing bob.

2. Until the LFA has beat the times i can talk all i want.

3. For now i am comparing the two since the "ring Edition" hasnt even been released for sale. If it has then we can compare the two. Though we may know its faster than the regular LFA, i still have not seen an LFA lap the ring faster than the posted time. At the end of the day its all speculation until its on paper. Rolla posted a magazine article as a source and that was more than enough info for me agree with him on some points.

4. You Supply the LFA and ill bring the GTR so we can make a day out of it

5. If you understood my logic you might be able to put it into comparison. The GTR is compared to an LFA, while a Camaro is compared to a Mustang

6. I could give a rats...... about your opinion regarding what type of person i am. Though i actually am a target buyer for a car in the price range, ive chosen to protect my assets and stay liquid while the economy is volatile for my types of business. Oh wait, i forgot i cant appreciate an exotic supercar. Guess im too poor to realize that i shouldnt assume another persons financial situation on limited information.

7. How about this... Go buy an LFA and when a Zr1 kills you on the highway tell me how you feel about your 375k car. My points hold all credibility until you present something to prove me wrong.

The LFA is a great car. IMO its just not worth the money.

My presence in the thread ends here. If you want to take my post and act upon your own assumptions go right ahead.

P.S. Its funny how two different people have taken it upon themselves to categorize and stereotype me based on a few post ive made.

TF109B

The point is, no stock ZR1 is going to kill the LFA. No Stock GTR will either, nothing with around 600hp will. You'll have to get 700hp cars to 'blow past' the LFA like you say. And once you hit the track those major HP monsters won't be able to hang. Look at the picture man, that was a pre-production LFA that was said to even be down on power, still it beat that GTR and the ZR1, and they had the better tires. You come to a Lexus forum bashing a Lexus, but yet you own a Lexus? That's pretty lame if you ask me. You ask people not to judge you, then don't judge the LFA when you don't know what you say. You speak things that make no sense. 'Worth' is all subjective. What makes the 599GTO 'worth' 450-500k? They're produced in greater numbers (599) than the LFA, not too much faster than it yet cost more! So that seem to head to the question of where you get off saying a car isn't worth it. I got nothing against anyone in these forums, but going around like you know what is and isn't worth it based on some stupid magazine tests and some trivial PRE-Production models' numbers, it's useless.

gengar

request fulfilled - no longer needed

TRDFantasy

If you don't want to appear biased, then by attacking the LFA, you should also bash supercars like the Carrera GT and Benz McLaren SLR. They both cost more than an LFA when they came out and perform slower on a track than an LFA does.

If you think a stock ZR1 will "smoke" an LFA on the highway, that is your choice to believe that. One can build a car for less money than a ZR1 that will smoke a ZR1 on the highway.

I was being quite respectful in my post, yet you felt the need to be rude. I don't need to assume anything, as you reply illustrates the sort of person that you are.

I can only agree to disagree at this point. If you have the money to buy the LFA, more power to you .

This has gone off-topic far enough anyways. I'm confident the LFA will be faster straight-line with the launch control system.

Back to the original topic, I hope Lexus provides at least one production tester car to various publications to vindicate the LFA's performance and to give the car the respect it deserves. This is not just specifically about the launch control, but also testing a production model vs a pre-production model.

05RollaXRS

This thread needs to get back on topic. Let not one person ruin the flow of discussion.

That is not what this forum is about. There are plenty of people on the internet with sheer prejudices against the LFA who pigeon hole the entire driving experience and the philosophy of building an exotic supercar down to one or two things mainly being the horsepower race. (oh that car costs X times less than LFA and LFA is not X times the car).

One of the top reasons why LFA smashed the 2012 GTR in "Evo UK best car of the year" and "best engine of the year" was because Lexus LFA's driving experience dominates the boredom and "vaccum cleaner" like feel of the GTR. Not to mention, they were highly critical of the exceptionally heavy over 3900 lbs weight of the GTR that makes it feel like a GT car rather than a sports car.

As a matter of fact, GTR is owner retention is less than 2 years since most of them end up getting rid of those due to high cost of ownership (brakes alone cost $11,000) and they get bored with it very quickly.

These are the things that make LFA simply combination is unmatched by any other car on the road:

- Full luxuries and amenities down to traffic updates, backup camera and 14 speaker premium stereo system, yet dry weight of only 3263 lbs

- Fit, finish, quality and attention to details simply unmatched

- Unmatched throttle response with 0 - 9500 rpm in only 0.5 seconds

- 9500 rpm and a V10 soundtrack matching F1 racing cars.

- 70% carbon fiber construction giving it the most rigid chassis in the super car domain.

- A V10 that is smaller and lighter than a 3.0 Liter V6

- Ideal weight distribution of 52/48% rear biased

- Only 500 ever built (R&D and production cost is far less split than mass produced supercars).

- Technological innovations such as a TFT LCD computer screen for the gauge cluster.

- Production Lexus LFA was built out of the 24-hours Nurburgring race car and has raced in nearly stock trim with stock engine and transmission with weight penalties and restrictors (down to 480 HP).

- Bespoke and everything purpose-built. Nearly every sports car rehashed a lot of parts from the parts bin and from the lesser models, yet Lexus LFA is completely 100% bespoke and purpose built with nothing from any other car.

The fact that despite all the luxuries and amenities that are unmatched by any track oriented supercar, Lexus LFA weighs only 3263 lbs (dry weight) shows that LFA's development focus was on creating the most lightweight track oriented supercar without compromising on the lavish and high end luxury Lexus can build.

Sure, my friend has a 580 wheel HP Evo IX that weighs only 3100 lbs and would kill any stock car that costs $100,000 for 1/3rd the price on a drag strip, on the highway and around the race track so badly it is not even funny. Then again, turbocharging is like steroid feeding. What car cannot accomplish that?

What stop the horsepower race analogy on cars that cost $100K?? Why not go even lower than that?? By that analogy, that means, my buddy's Evo IX is superior to all the cars that cost $100K and those guys buying those cars are completely stupid. They are wasting their money since a modified $30K could kill them anywhere. If you have the money, you can make even a 2.0 Liter 4 banger perform like a supercar.


Evo UK ("Best car of the year'):

07grIS350

LOL, that is just too funny...

rominl

iTrader: (4)

ok, everyone listen up. i just split the previous launch control threads and moved all the OT posts into this thread. we are ok with debates and discussions, as long as everyone is being constructive about their points and no personal attacks happen.

this is a very sensitive subject, and we have had numerous posts about this before and usually they didn't end well. i am going to allow this again, but please be careful before you post

this thread will be moderated heavily. thank you

TommyJames

The thread caught my attention so I thought I'd weigh in too. A year ago, I joined this forum when I was looking for actual LFA buyers, buyers with a history of owning exotics who were seriously contemplating a purchase. I was on about a dozen forums looking for the same thing and found almost complete silence in spite of Lexus claims at the time that all cars were spoken for and that the only way you could buy the car was if YOU were selected by Lexus and you adhered to the two year, two payment lease, and your behavior matched an unstated pattern. I was flamed, called a troll, etc., even though I'm both a Lexus owner and I own more expensive cars than the LFA. All that didn't matter, the very fact that I was questioning sales made my opinion somehow disqualified here.

Fast forward one year.

We now know the car hasn't sold nearly as well as anticipated. No more two payment lease or any lease requirement. Now anyone who wants one can still buy one. Everything I was suspecting has turned out to be true- at least so far.

Now I see a debate about value. The truth is the actual market decides those things and no debate here will have much if any impact. Exotics are not doing well in that price range here in the US. That's just fact. Forget all the arguments about specs, fit and finish, etc. because nobody actually needs an exotic. The decision to buy one is first emotional, second fun, and about last is logical. You can have the best numbers in every category and someone will still either love or hate the looks. It doesn't matter if you build ten or a thousand, it's purely supply and demand and that's not been proven yet so 500 cars means absolutely nothing in exotics. They only built 20 Reventons yet half have been for sale and prices are falling. They built 350 SVs and those all sold out, but the big demand has been outside of the US. There are currently only 26 in the US.

I bought my first Lamborghini never having driven one simply because I loved the car anyway. I'd driven enough other exotics that unless it was really horrible, I was still going to love driving it. As it turned out, it far exceeded my expectations and I actually put miles on my cars.

Also with regard to numbers, wait until the magazines start posting numbers on actual production cars. Those are the numbers to watch, not what pre-production cars turn out. If Lexus is like the others, they want the magazines to beat their own numbers, and most cars in the hands of magazines will beat the pre-production numbers, except for some of the track stuff that gets out there.

As for the track numbers, to me they are virtually meaningless. Two seconds over 7.5 minutes is pointless. How in the world is that ever going to equate to real-world experience? Same with 0-60. Most car enthusiasts like to go out with their pals on drives where the slight differences have absolutely no meaning except to argue at dinner. Yea, fine if your jollies come from drag races and spins around the track, but believe me, few cars will be used that way. Keep in mind there is no insurance when you're flying around the track so few private owners will ever come close to pushing the limits of their cars.

Lamborghini will be releasing the LP700 in a month and those numbers are shocking by comparison and it's priced well within the ballpark of the LFA. We're talking 0-60 faster than a Veyron. As Lamborghini puts it, faster than you accelerate in a free fall. But, so what. If you love the LFA, buy one anyway. You're never going to go to some street event and feel like you can't reasonably keep up so what's the point? The car will still garner some respect and its reputation will be cemented over time.

05RollaXRS

That is not true. In Europe, LP700's official price is 60,000 Euros more than that of the outgoing LP670 SV. In North America, it will follow suit and will be much more expensive than the $510,000 price tag of the LP670 SV.

Remember, LFA costs $375,000 in North America and for a carbon fiber supercar with all the amenities and everything imaginable included also with all the technological and engineering gizmos LFA comes with, that is very very tough to beat.

Just wait and see. There is no way LP700 will be cheaper just in North America than the LP670 while being more expensive in other markets.

MR_F1

Pointless thread. Supercars are not value propositions.

TommyJames

You don't know what you're talking about and I suggest you do your homework. There are several offers (Cats Exotics and others) out there trading across a used SV for the new LP700 which I still wouldn't do. I've already seen the new LP700 and I've been quoted prices on the new LP700 myself. It's in the same general range as the LP640.

As for the LFA, that $375 is before options, right? Furthermore, if they are non-exotic owners not getting out of something similar in price, as many have said here, they have to also add that expense. Many states such as Washington subtract sales tax (about 10%) on the trade-in and that's a big number you have to also add if you're not moving from one exotic to the other.

TommyJames

Here is one dealer in Germany. Keep in mind we don't have the 19% tax.

http://www.automotorblog.com/wp-cont...or-LP700-4.jpg

LexFather

That is all this thread needs really. When the hell has a supercar been about value? Even worse how can anyone call themselves an enthusiast and try to pick apart and insult a supercar? I guess we should all just drive the same cars from Europe.

Even if I don't really particularly like a supercar I'm not going to try to insult the efforts for something that is so fantastic.

05RollaXRS

Regarding, the LP700, there is no official announcement on the price and not even through the grapevine so whatever you are getting for price is of no interest for me. I have not even seen a pre-production prototype yet revealed so it is still far from materializing. Chances are, LFA would be relegated to the history books by that time.

Unless Lambo is planning on building tens of thousands of those, I am sure it will be north of $510,000. I can guarantee. Let's wait and see when the official MSRP especially for North America comes out. Again, that is what I personally believe and like I said before "wait and see". You can feel free to disagree.

You are saying I don't know what I am talking about. However, despite what I wrote in my previous post, you don't really seem to know much either.

The $375,000 includes every single luxury amenities etc. you could possibly get on the Lexus LFA. They all come standard. You can only delete any of those options (at no extra cost - pun intended). You get to choose and configure the LFA the way you want offering several different combinations and palettes. You might want to check out flipside's thread for details on that. All of that is included in $375,000 MSRP. That is completely opposite to nearly every other supercar where every amenity is nickel and dimed.

The only options available on Lexus LFA are the crazy things like passionate pink special order color or a matte black paint. Those are customizations. Not options.