TRDFantasy

Something occured to me while looking at some pics.









Yes, it's a concept (the Italdesign-Giugiaro Toyota Volta to be exact). But notice that it has a carbon fiber chassis, and that it has a full interior as well as the internals of the car are on display. Typically automakers don't go to such lengths making such detailed concepts unless they will be bringing the concept to production in some way.

Now there were rumours a few months ago that the Lexus LF-A would be delayed because Toyota scrapped a steel/aluminum body in favour of a complete carbon fiber body to keep weight very low.

Nothing so far in rumours has been heard about the LF-A's chassis.

We also know that this is new and uncharted territory for Toyota. They've never done a true supercar before, and the F performance division is also new territory. Most of us assume Toyota will stick to automatics with the F brand, but the LF-A is likely to get a unique gearbox, F1 sourced perhaps. There is a chance Toyota could surprise all of us with a unique gearbox for it's F brand Lexus cars.

Getting back to the original point, there is a chance that the LF-A's chassis could be carbon fiber. A full carbon fiber body, if true, is extreme enough. Adding a carbon fiber chassis would mean Toyota is dead serious here.

What are your thoughts on the chances of this?

GSteg

iTrader: (15)

i'm not liking the rear end, but the front end is so badass!

CK6Speed

iTrader: (1)

If they do go carbon fiber for the chassis I'd say the price will be well north of $100K. Performance will be awsome, but the competition will be fierce at that price range. My guess is a carbon fiber chassis LF-A with a sequential F1 manual gear box would be $150K+.

encore888

Agreed!! Given the spy shots recently of the LF-A with new front end, I'm hoping it turns out like this Volta front end. I am terrified they're going for a copy of the Lambo older look.

JessePS

Which would still be reasonable.

Price (base):
- Chevrolet Corvette Z06 ($65,640 USD)
- Porsche 997 Turbo ($122,900 USD)
- Aston Martin DB9 ($160,000 USD)
- Ferrari F430 ($168,005 USD)
- Lamborghini Gallardo ($175,900 USD)

I think Koenigsegg is similar but its about $600k, true they are a smaller company and the car is completely hand built.

I just cant wait too see the LF-A.

One thing it be interesting, if you get bored of the LF-A outer body, just remove it and you have a Ariel Atom for a day, a very large Ariel Atom.

I just hope and pray, that Lexus stays with the carbon fiber idea, because it would such a nice move by them. Would for sure show that they are working with the F1 division. Plus if they could figure out how to get like 20 - 25 mpg for this car, now that would be a nice change. Which would be much more cleaner than most super cars.

Lamborghini Gallardo - 14 mpg (combined)
Koenigsegg CCX - 15.95 mpg (combined)
Chevrolet Corvette Z06 - 21 mpg (combined)
Porsche 997 Turbo - 22.1 mpg (combined)

Also there is the new 997 GT2 coming out soon, from the amount of horsepower its suppose to have and its suppose to exceed 200 mph (first production 911 Porsche to ever do that, if I remember correctly), sounds it be a great car for the LF-A to go head-to-head with.

About a year until the LF-A supposably comes out, give or take.

Be nice to see it weigh in about 3,000 - 3,400 pounds.

Weight:
- Chevrolet Corvette Z06 - 3132 pounds
- Ferrari F430 - 3197 pounds
- Dodge Viper SRT/10 - 3385 pounds
- Lamborghini Gallardo - 3462 pounds
- Porsche 997 Turbo - 3495 pounds
- Aston Martin DB9 - 3769 pounds

Hopefully have a cd, below or equal too 0.26.

Drag Coefficient:
- Porsche 997 Turbo (0.28 - 0.31)
- Koenigsegg CCX (0.30)
- Ferrari F430 (0.33)
- Chevrolet Corvette Z06 (0.34)
- Bugatti Veyron (0.35)
- Mercedes Benz SLR (0.374)
- Dodge Viper SRT/10 (0.39)
- Lotus Exige 240R (0.434)

Plus if they play with the gear ratios properly.

Also we sort of know the size of the car, should be the same height as the Ferrari F430 (43"), slightly shorter than the Porsche 997 Turbo / GT2, and slightly wider than the Aston Martin DB9. All this put together should be the most ultimate Lexus for a good decade. It should be a good all-round car for every day use or even use for the track, depending what your into.

0 - 400 m:
- Chevrolet Corvette Z06 (11.8 seconds)
- Porsche 997 Turbo (12 seconds)
- Ferrari F430 (12.1 seconds)
- Aston Martin DB9 (12.9 seconds)
- Lamborghini Gallardo (13 seconds)

0 - 96 km/h:
- Chevrolet Corvette Z06 (3.4 - 3.7 seconds)
- Porsche 997 Turbo (3.7 seconds)
- Ferrari F430 (4 seconds)
- Lamborghini Gallardo (4 seconds)
- Aston Martin DB9 (4.5 seconds)

Aston Martin quality interior. Lamborghini / Ferrari / Porsche handling and performance.

I hope we see the LF-A on top gear.

True the LF-A wont be in the same price range as the Koenigsegg or Bugatti, but why not mention them seeing they are pretty much a benchmark for performance and quality, which Lexus could so easilly emulate for fraction of the price.

LF-A (my specs)

Weight: 1,452 kg / 3,200 pounds (full tank / no passengers)
Length: 4400 mm
Width: 1860 mm
Height: 1220 mm
Wheelbase: 2580 mm

Engine: Front-engine / V8 (?) [V10 - rumours]
Aspiration: Natural
Drive: AWD (?) [RWD - rumours]
Displacement: 5000 cc
Horsepower: 503 @ 6500 rpm
Torque: 678 N.m @ 3000 rpm
Transmission: 8-Speed Sequential (?)
Redline: 10,000 rpm

HP / Weight: 2.904 kg per hp

Drag coefficient: 0.25 - 0.26

L / 100 km: 11.76 L / 100 km (combined)
Fuel tank capacity: 60 Liters
Distance: 510 km

0 - 400 m: 11 seconds
0 - 100 km/h: 3.6 / 3.8 seconds
0 - 200 km/h: 11 seconds
0 - 300 km/h: 20 seconds
0 - 160 - 0: 11 seconds (not sure of the distance though)
96 - 0: +/- 34 m (not sure about the time)

Top Speed: 322 km/h (Governed)

Would be nice to see some of those numbers. Hmm... carbon-ceramic breaks would be very yummy. Would be interesting to see the LF-A be able to do the 0 - 160 - 0 in the same amount of time as the Bugatti, and shorter distance. It be pretty much an actual Formula 1 car for the road

I just hope they have no options for the car so you buy what you get, or the only option would be an outrageous Mark Levinson system.

One thing would be nice if it was a targa, the glass roof would retract back on a track that covers the engine. Similar to the Porsche 997 Targa. Would be better than the what you have to do with the Koenigsegg and Pagani.

In my heart I feel the LF-A / LF-H, it will beat the supercars in its weight / size category. Also it could unleash alot of pain, on the more expensive supercars, for a mear fraction of the price.

0 - 400m / weight / 0 - 96 km/h / displacement / price USD$ (base)
- Koenigsegg CCX (9.9 seconds) / 1180 kg / 3.1 seconds / 4.7 L V8 Supercharged / $540,000
- Saleen S7 TT (10.7 seconds) / 1340 kg / 2.8 seconds / 7.0 L V8 Twin-Turbo / $585,000
- Bugatti Veyron (10.8 seconds) / 1890 kg / 2.8 seconds / 8.0 L W16 Quad-Turbo / $1,700,000
- Lamborghini Murcielago 640 (11 seconds) / 1665 kg / 3.3 seconds / 6.5 L V12 / $350,000
- Ferrari Enzo (11.1 seconds) / 1366 kg / 3.65 seconds / 6.0 L V12 / $1,000,000
- Porsche Carrera GT (11.4 seconds) / 1380 kg / 3.9 seconds / 5.7 L V10 / $484,000
- Mercedes Benz SLR 722 McLAREN (11.6 seconds) / 1724 kg / 3.6 seconds / 5.4 L V8 Supercharged / $646,480

Those cars I mentioned they are the similar size of the LF-A may'be off by a couple inchs (mm) here and there.

If they stay away from the Scissor-doors I will be happy. They should try and innovate a new door opening system, similar to the Koenigsegg.

I just wish someone kid at Lexus would be stupid enough to take a nice spy pic and post the photo already LOL

From the spy videos, it seems they are keeping with the origional shape of the car, so it shouldnt look like the Volta behind.

TRDFantasy

Styling-wise we already know the general shape the LF-A will have. I too hope that the Lambo style headlights are not the final design. The original LF-A concept headlights look a lot better.

And it's pretty much a given that the LF-A will cost over 100K. But it makes you wonder how cheap a carbon fiber chassis would be.

As for specs, so far, current rumours say the car will weigh under 3000lbs, lighter than a Corvette Z06. That makes perfect sense to go with a carbon fiber body, if you want to keep weight below 3000lbs, and still have a luxurious interior.

There are a number of rumours that say the engine is either a V8 or a V10.

The 2007 Japanese Grand Prix and Tokyo Auto Show can't come soon enough.

JessePS

One thing I read, on wikipedia that the LS7 engine from the Corvette can be pushed upto 2500 hp, which is insane. Plus when the LF-A going to be on the market, there will be a new Corvette.

One thing the new Corvette will be out the same year as the LF-A going to be released. 6.2 L V8 Superchaged (650 hp), which be well over $100,000 USD. I bet the quarter mile will be very impressive with this model, as the Z06.

If it weighs about 2600 - 2800 pounds ... it be like in the Koenigsegg / Saleen weight class, and that is pretty light.

3000 pounds (500 hp / RWD) would be around 3.6 seconds, probably would be even be around 3.2 - 3.4 seconds with the AWD.

Thing I like about Lexus, they sort of go over the top with some of their models.

The LF-A will be in a class of its own. Nothing in the same price range would probably compare to it.

It would be interesting to see the LF-A in Le Mans.

One thing this car will be like a Murcielago or Carrera GT, but just half the price. May'be twice the fun

One thing would be interesting to see a "dead-mans switch" in the car, which would turn off most of the electronics in the car and turn it into a wild beast like the CCX.

LexFather

The funny thing is for all the "oooooooooooooh carbon fiber" hoopla, most cars with it are heavy as hell. Most Ferrari's, Lambos, etc are still heavy. Hell the M6 with a carbon fiber roof still weighs 3800 lbs.

Being it is a Lexus and will be about luxury, I figure it will weigh over 3,000 lbs and quite frankly near 3300 lbs.

The new 911 turbo weighs, yipes 3500 lbs!

TRDFantasy

Don't believe everything on Wikipedia. It may be true, but Wikipedia's information is user submitted, and thus not always accurate or true.

The new Lexus models already have a VDIM/VSC off switch, so I would obviously expect the LF-A to have at least this.

TRDFantasy

But the M6 doesn't have an all carbon fiber body, nor a carbon fibre chassis. The Ferrari Enzo makes extensive use of carbon fiber, and as such is a very light car.

We will see how much the LF-A weighs, but it would be a pleasant surprise in engineers actually do keep the weight under 3000lbs.

Initial B

iTrader: (2)

I see essentially no difference in the $100k market vs the $150k market in terms of potential buyers, so that would be a fantastic move to make this car as exotic as they can (carbon fiber chassis as mentioned above), even if it means a substantial bump in price. Can't wait to see the final product...

JessePS

I just wonder how many Lexus will make a year, seeing the LF-A should be a limited amount.

Probably be in showrooms Q3 2008? Atleast we know it will be over $100,000. Hopefully it wont go over $175,000, because that would be insane. Would give a reason for the next generation LS to be in that price range, not sure many of the previous and new LS owners would enjoy paying that much. Even though it be 1/2 the price of Maybach and similar quality (sort of).

I better start saving some money.

I just can not wait to see what Lexus will be like after 2010.

Atleast in 30 days we see the first Lexus "F" division at NAIAS, with hopefully all the specs. Would be nice to see Lexus update their website with a little teaser of the IS-F.


Aston Martin DB9 (door handle), which would go nice with this car, or no door handles at all, you press a button for it to open and close, which would be nice on the LS, if its not already a feature.

CK6Speed

iTrader: (1)

I don't know. I say there is a big difference between $100K and a $150K. Not so much in who can afford it, but what choices there are. If I could afford one, I'd take the $175K Ferrari F430 over a $150K LF-A any day. At that price range you are not only competing with the other front engine GT cars but also mid engine exotics.

LexFather

Lexus would have to outsource a carbon fiber LF-A. They don't own any robots to make a carbon fiber car. I dont' think there is one Toyota/Scion/lexus product that uses carbon fiber.


The super price market is funny, people are buying up Bentleys with no issue. Maybachs and RR is not doing as well. Ferrari and 911s over 100k will sell regardless.
You also have CL/SL 65s at $170k. Aston Martin is doing well.

Though I must say the new LS will help the LF-A. The new LS has done very well thus far.

JessePS

Who could Lexus out-source the carbon fiber too?