sdiver68

Hopefully we can get past the ad hominem "I'm an engineer" bit. I'm not going to list my resume but if I did you might find I've had a bit of success in both leading engineering groups and winning national road race championships. Fair to say I might have a bit of knowledge and competition proven ability in this area.

If I mention the world's first sports car AWD torque vectoring system that alone trumps anything the LFA brings to the table from an engineering perspective. Now some might point to the 1986 Porsche 959 Supercar as being the first ahead of the 1989 separately developed ATTESA system. They would have a fair point however Nissan is the company that perfected the system in particular the digital control system and brought it to the masses. Truly, a heavy production GT-R running sub 8:00 N'ring times was revolutionary to the point that performance tuned AWD systems have become ubiquitous.

So, pray tell, what does the LFA have that's even close to ATTESA from an engineering and influence point of view? From my perspective the only area where the LFA can claim any type of engineering badge is in the use of composite materials..borrowed from the aerospace industry at a super high cost. More impressive in that aspect is Ford borrowing AL construction techniques from the aerospace industry and successfully transforming their best selling production vehicle with it.

In terms of speed, hopefully we can agree that depending upon the exact nature of the course, the driver and in ideal conditions either might win a race. For every test where you find an LFA advantage I'll find one for the GT-R including the gold standard Nurburgring. However, let's add mixed traction pavement, rain or even snow to the mix. Now the LFA gets left in the garage while the GT-R goes about still being one of the world's fastest cars. I don't know if you've ever chased a road race championship but if you do, count on rain at 20-30% of the venues. This is why I state unequivocally the GT-R is a faster car.

I appreciate and pointed out the difference in my post about the LFA being a more emotionally rewarding car if you drive it. No doubt. If I spent my money on a road car versus chasing road race championships and having a family I might even have 1. . From an emotional point of view the digital GT-R takes its lumps which is why every almost GT-R versus X comparo in the last 10 years has a "best" versus "I'd rather own caveat".

Beyond being a Halo car for Lexus the LFA has little influence on the automotive world and very little to offer in terms of engineering. It also rings in at an unobtainable price and numbers built for 99.99% of the world's population. I'll point out that even Ford can build a Ferrari beating Supercar with unlimited budget, and GM offers a faster car in the dry than either.

05RollaXRS

Well, the way you describe things, you certainly don't seem to have a grasp on those. I can only go by what I can clearly see. When you completely disregard the quality, refinement, finish, exotic materials, R&D that went into development of a supremely balanced chassis and suspension, there is no other way I can perceive it.

Then there is the engine, for which I can write a book on the specs and characteristics of that engine, which you simply disregarded. I have posted reviews above that talk about it enough. I don't have to repeat those over again.

I would say this though, that $30,000 car low-rent interior I sat in when I was at the car show for the Nissan GTR was the furthest from being the epitome of "engineering",

An AWD being the greatest thing since sliced bread? Are you joking? If electronics determines what is the best achievement then I reckon BMW's self-driving car that has automation to the level where it runs the perfect lap 10/10 times. Where is the greatness in that?

The reason why LFA always is praised over (as I had posted above) is because of its ability to bring the best out of the driver and using its inherent balance and dynamics to inspire confidence in the driver to push the car to the limit and beyond (not electronics compensating for weaknesses in the car and the driver).

Torque vectoring AWD has been around for a lot longer. Many RWD have had torque vectoring diff for a long time. Even before the R35 GTR came out, the Porsche 911 Turbo S had it. Mitsubishi had the best AWC with torque vectoring in the EVO FQ400 as early as 2003. It is an electronic gadget that corrects the mistakes of the driver and compensates for any deficiencies of the chassis and inherent balance. Even Porsche itself places the RWD Porsche 911 GT3 over the Porsche Turbo S with the torque vectoring AWD because the GT3 is harder to engineer because it relies on 2WD.

The GTR famously has a heavy propensity to understeer (especially with the earlier versions of the ATTESSA AWD). The GTR is incredibly heavy somewhere between 3900 - 4000 lbs depending on equipment. The weight distribution tends to lean towards being nose-heavy with 54% of the weight over and aft of the front axle.

It really needs all of the electronics for the car to understeer through corner and make the electronics and AWD correct the understeer by forcing the nose tucked in.

Again, it goes back to what I had posted earlier how LFA is dynamically superior because of the following reasons:

1 - Mid-front chassis layout with 52% weight over the rear-axle that is either neutral to mild-oversteer based.
2 - Pulled a best of 1.07 - 1.10g on the skidpad and 75.2 mph slalom speed without sticky tires with only 2WD and without any electronic gizmos purely on the basis brilliance of the steering, chassis balance and suspension
3 - A lot lighter somewhere in the 400 - 500 lbs depending on the market and safety equipment.

Again, either you are pretending to be oblivious or you simply disregard all of the engineering marvels that are talked about by everyone in the media and in general:

1 - A F1 racing car derived V10 engine with titanium internals and 10 individual throttle bodies that all have their own computers that has more compact packaging that is smaller and lighter than a 3.5 Liter V6. That takes a lot of clever and revolutionary engineering to make an engine that small with this much displacement. Moreover, LFA's engine is like two 5 cylinder engines working together with independent controls on each bank.

2 - Ability to rev from idle to 9000 rpm in just over half seconds. That is the quickest revving engine ever put into production. Lexus said, the internal inertia is so low that no mechanical gauge cluster needle can keep up with the change of direction of the rpms.

2 - Ability to rev up to 9500 rpm rev limit (You can dismiss it all you want, but highest revving production engine and making a reliable, refined and sonorous engine that revs this high, is one of the highest achievements. This is particularly more difficult in a larger displacement engine with more cylinders. Is it clear why or you want me to explain the physics of it? Hint: harmonics and centrifugal forces)

3 - A TFT screen gauge cluster that was a first back in 2009. No other car had a full TFT screen gauge cluster until LFA brought it. Then other manufacturers followed suit.

4 - Lexus invented the carbon fiber looming process. It was never created before. It was patented and developed by Lexus for LFA. It is a revolutionary process, which offers the flexibility of weaving carbon fiber that can take many different shapes.

5 - Carbon Fiber prop shaft that has a counter gearset that allows the engine to sit close/below front axle while having the ability to reach the much higher mount trans axle in the rear. It has never been done in any other car.

6 - Sounds like no other car. Engine acoustics were raised to a new level with the LFA. Still unmatched 8 years after LFA first came out.



I could list many others, but these are the highlights that no other car has achieved.

What about Nurburgring? Lexus LFA still holds the record of the quickest lap time around Nurburgring on street tires (Bridgestone Potenza tires) of 7:14 that was set back in 2011.

Sure, there are other cars that become quicker, but all of them either wore Cup 2 slick tires or its closest competitors like the Trofeo R or Corsas etc. It took Nissan another 2 years before a stripped out NISMO GTR that was a GT3 spec (not the same as the one offered for production NISMO) officially on slick tires to do the 7:08.

That is before we get into racing. Don't even ask. Gazoo LFA participated in Nurburgring 24-hours endurance race and every time it won against Nissan GTR in similar restricted classes (SP8 and SP8T). Last year, Gazoo LFA Code X with a stroked 5.3 V10 when LFA cracked the overall top 10 despite being in restricted class.

GTR? Well, it was placing #30th, #40th or sometimes even #50th depending on the year. Nissan GTR had massive overheating issues and it kept going into limp mode in many years. Look it up. You will see all of the record from 2006 onwards and see LFA always placed higher than the NISMO GTR and GTR in the 24-hours endurance racing.


LFA has been ranked one of the best (and in some cases the best), because it feels like a racing car that is barely street legal on modest tires. A Nissan GTR is a big, tall, heavy sports car with a high center of gravity that handles like it should not due to electronics as it defies laws of physics with clever automation, electronics and AWD. However, a race car driver always picks a car that inspires the most confidence, which is why all racing drivers always pick the LFA because of its RWD architecture and inherent balance and precision with any aids.

That is always the common running theme

Yes sure, that 9 second EVO I saw on the drag strip running 9 seconds, using your logic trumps everything at a fraction of the cost. Your logic is flawed if you discount all of the engineering prowess that went into building process, factory, patented technology as well as bespoke equipment that is not possible in a mass produced car.

sdiver68

Torque vectoring AWD has been around for a lot longer. Many RWD have had torque vectoring diff for a long time. Even before the R35 GTR came out, the Porsche 911 Turbo S had it. Mitsubishi had the best AWC with torque vectoring in the EVO FQ400 as early as 2003. It is an electronic gadget that corrects the mistakes of the driver and compensates for the deficiencies of the chassis and inherent balance. Even Porsche itself places the RWD Porsche 911 GT3 over the Porsche Turbo S with the torque vectoring AWD because the GT3 is harder to engineer because it relies on 2WD.

Which part of ATESSA being originally released in 1989 did you miss when bringing up cars released in the 2000's?


The GTR famously has a heavy propensity to understeer (especially with the earlier versions of the ATTESSA AWD). The GTR is incredibly heavy somewhere between 3900 - 4000 lbs depending on equipment. The weight distribution tends to lean towards being nose-heavy with 54% of the weight over and aft of the front axle.

It really needs all of the electronics for the car to understeer through corner and make the electronics and AWD correct the understeer by forcing the nose tucked in.

*cough*

Again, it goes back to what I had posted earlier how LFA is dynamically superior because of the following reasons:

1 - Mid-front chassis layout with 52% weight over the rear-axle

2 - Pulled a best of 1.07 - 1.10g on the skidpad and 75.2 mph slalom speed without sticky tires with only 2WD and without any electronic gizmos purely on the basis brilliance of the steering, chassis balance and suspension
3 - A lot lighter somewhere in the 400 - 500 lbs depending on the market and safety equipment.

And yet slower

Again, either you are pretending to be oblivious or you simply disregard all of the engineering marvels that are talked about by everyone in the media and in general:

Marketing and engineering are 2 different things.

1 - A F1 racing car derived V10 engine with titanium internals and 10 individual throttle bodies that all have their own computers that has more compact packaging that is smaller and lighter than a 3.5 Liter V6. That takes a lot of clever and revolutionary engineering to make an engine that small with this much displacement. Moreover, LFA's engine is like two 5 cylinder engines working together with independent controls on each bank.

2 - Ability to rev from idle to 9000 rpm in just over half seconds. That is the quickest revving engine ever put into production. Lexus said, the internal inertia is so low that no mechanical gauge cluster needle can keep up with the change of direction of the rpms.

2 - Ability to rev up to 9500 rpm rev limit (You can dismiss it all you want, but highest revving production engine and making a reliable, refined and sonorous engine that revs this high, is one of the highest achievements. Do you understand why or you want me to explain the physics of it? Hint: harmonics and centrifugal forces)

3 - A TFT screen gauge cluster that was a first back in 2009. No other car had a full TFT screen gauge cluster until LFA brought it. Then other manufacturers followed suit.

4 - Lexus invented the carbon fiber looming process. It was never created before. It was patented and developed by Lexus for LFA. It is a revolutionary process, which offers the flexibility of weaving carbon fiber that can take many different shapes.

5 - Carbon Fiber prop shaft that has a counter gearset that allows the engine to sit lower than the front axle while having the ability to reach the much higher mount trans axle in the rear. It has never been done in any other car.

6 - Sounds like no other car. Engine acoustics were raised to a new level with the LFA. Still unmatched 8 years after LFA first came out.

I will race on and against lightly modified production normally aspirated engines spinning to 16,500rpm making 250hp per liter this weekend. Tell me again about the LFA engine?

I'm going to grant you the achievement with CF like I had originally, just seems to be an expensive technology with nowhere to go.

What about Nurburgring? Lexus LFA still holds the record of the quickest lap time around Nurburgring on street tires (Bridgestone Potenza tires) of 7:14 that was set back in 2011.

Sure, there are other cars that become quicker, but all of them either wore Cup 2 slick tires or its closest competitors like the Trofeo R or Corsas etc. It took Nissan another 2 years before a stripped out NISMO GTR that was a GT3 spec (not the same as the one offered for production NISMO) officially on slick tires to do the 7:08.

Look again, 7:08 GT-R Nismo on Dunlop Run Flat's.

Speaking of racing I leave in 30 minutes so the rest of this will have to wait.

05RollaXRS

My point is, that is not a technological marvel to have automation and electronics like you make it sound since sliced bread. No one would ever buy that. Even Porsche does not place Turbo S over the GT3 since always a RWD car with brilliant chassis, suspension and balance is more difficult to engineer.

Again, considering GTR has went through like a bazillion updates to boost pressure increased, chassis, suspension, stickier chassis, AWD etc. it would be a shame if it would not be quicker than a car that was developed and finalized in 2009 and never changed ever since.

Up until 2011, LFA was quicker all the way around. I can post every single comparison done up until that point that proves it.

If your sole criteria is just numbers without acknowledging anything else factoring into the greatness of the car then by your own definition those Evos that run 9 seconds for fraction of the cost make up for the greatest cars. Your logic is deeply flawed and you are grasping at straws to hold on to it.

Again, the LFA owners on this thread wrote $375,000 (or thereabouts) cheques for their LFAs. Some of them traded in Mclaren MP4-12C and some of them Ferraris (one of them a 599 GTO) and Porsches. What you are saying directly contradicts what those people say in all of their experiences with exotic supercars. You are speaking to the crowd that comments on paper racing with car specs. You don't speak for the people who actually spend the money or even have the privilege of driving it. You clearly are out of touch with the actual customer's expectations and appreciations.

Dismissing all of the incredible engineering achievements in LFA as "marketing" only makes you look silly. How you could simply ignore all of that plethora of testimonials simply because they work against your argument is simply mind blowing. You seem to be grasping at straws. It is all fed back to the user in how this engine behaves like no other engine (as all who drive it seem to confirm). The review I posted above of Evo UK says exactly that. Whatever Lexus said, has been validated and it does not take a rocket scientist to imagine how quickly an engine responds and how quickly it can get to redline.



Seriously? What "production" car is that? What make? What manufacturer? You do realize I am talking stock car engines. Right?

Here is a list of stock production car redlines and where is the car you speak of?

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Redlin...ton_%20engines

No. Get your facts straight. Nissan Engineers officially admitted and listed out the differences between the camouflaged car that ran the lap versus what is offered in NISMO GTR offered to customer. Do you want me to post those? Different power tune, different wing, different chassis calibration, dampers. AWD was modified. Nissan engineers said the shape of the power curve was modified. Some of the aero parts on it would not clear safety regulations (as per Nissan). It is all available on the internet. Look it up.

LJ88

I think it was pretty great, not the best to come out of Japan though but one of the bests. I just hate the stupid procedure they went through with buyers wanting to get one. I used to work in the area around Toyota's NA Headquarters in Gardena Ca back when the LFA was testing and every morning I would see two testing. And for some weird reason they were always tailed by camoed Scion iQ's. The scream of that V10 though, not like anything else.

sdiver68

Motorcycles this weekend. 600cc, 130-140 rwhp bolt-ons only. Add in 12% driveline loss see what you get in terms of hp/liter. Redline 15.5k on mine, higher on the R6. So for about $10k you can buy a race ready engine with redlines that make the LFA...well not such an impressive achievement...which is 1 part of the reason why I dismissed it so quickly.

Go to your Nissan dealer, order a GTR Nismo with N attack package, see what you get.

Making a light weight chassis and adding power and suspension is really not that impressive from an engineering perspective in the 21st century. Other than the CF Loom that is :-)

SUNLINE

Sdiver68 you need to just give it up. Rolla is using your lame responses as toilet paper. I actually am beginning to feel sorry for you.

05RollaXRS

I knew that must be some sort of tongue-in-cheek joke (at least to me). I knew you were talking about bikes, but I still wanted to give you the benefit of the doubt.

You don't seem to grasp the concept of reciprocating mass, centrifugal force and internal harmonics of the engine (like I said before). In short, it is impossible to compare a tiny engine that has only 600 CC, 750 CC or even 1000 CC displacement with tiny engine parts with a 4800 CC car engine distributed across 10 cylinders that has large, heavier internal parts. It is apples to oranges. The bigger the displacement means bigger parts (hence more inertia and friction to fight), the more difficult it is to make the car rev high for two simple facts - due to bigger cylindrical capacity and more inertia to deal with.

Also, design wise, the bigger the cylindrical capacity, the more difficult it is to fill the cylinders. Since filling the cylinders quickly is needed for the engine to rev up quickly to the highest allowable limit.

Another thing is, having a 9000 rpm redline or 9500 rpm rev limit means nothing, if it loses steam and is checked out several thousand rpms before with torque curve in free-fall. Something that plagues car engines because the headers cannot flow well enough at those rpms to make usable torque. LFA's V10 makes over 90% of its peak torque from 3700 - 9000+ rpm (according to independent dynos). So that 9500 rpm rev limit is not just for show, but was built to work with the optimum area under the bell curve.

LFA's engine with its bigger displacement has far more reciprocating mass and inertia to deal, which is why it is a rare engine with 9500 rpm rev limit (with mean pistons speeds approaching that of F1 racing cars) that has that many cylinders. So much centrifugal force, friction and inertia is exerted on the engine's internal components, it is constantly trying to throw the component especially pistons and valves out of its path. That is why car engines blow up so easily when they are spun to 8000, 9000 rpm or 10,000 rpm when they are misshifted. To attain 9500 rpm on such a large displacement and 10 cylinders, requires exceptional (and extremely difficult) precision engineering and light internals with the lowest friction possible. So much inertia can result in valve bent, pistons melted, rod thrown etc.

Ask Porsche and Ferrari owners who have had to rebuild their engines for 458 Italias and 991 GT3s while no LFA has ever had any engine function with less than perfection. It is not uncommon to see some of these high-revving cars on their third engines.

A 10 cylinder engine with 4800 CC displacement would require exceptionally light internals, strength and precision engineering to get the engine to consistently spin at that engine speed and without missing a beat and without becoming tardy or unrefined over the time. LFA's engine does exactly that.

Lexus tested the engine during development by spinning the engine prototype at 10,000 rpm for 24-hours straight.

Bike engines get rebuilt all of the time. I have many bike user friends who have Ninja, GSXR etc. and they all go through rebuild process anywhere from 100,000 - 150,000 miles. It is not that expensive either. Certainly, not nearly as expensive as rebuilding a $156,000 MSRP LFA V10 engine.

LFA's engine on the other hand does not have that luxury. It has to work like an Lexus engine for million miles without missing a beat while being the most refined engine, without getting buzzy or any other issue including ever needing to build it. Certainly, that is what the requirement was by Lexus to the chief engineer Tanahashi (and rejected his proposal to give LFA a 10,000 rpm instead of 9000 rpm redline out of concerns for long term durability and refinement).

In short, a 4.8 Liter V10 that can spin up to 9500 rpm all day long and every day for hundreds of thousands of miles without ever having to go through anything, but regular maintenance, is an astonishing achievement.

Again, remember I am not trying to convince you of anything since I am not speaking for your perception or that of the internet crowd. I am speaking for the people who actually have driven the LFA or what I have seen the people who own it say.


Never heard that before. You are the only person who would be saying that. Any rational person (reviewers, drivers or owners) would never dismiss the patented engineering and technology that went into LFA (I described above) and the unique experiences the driver has while he is driving it. For Lexus to create such a car from scratch, with all bespoke engineering, no predecessor, no experience, no other mass produced part to use from a parts bin and building an entire factory and development process just for one car LFA. Then, having elements in it that no other car has ever had in its first try, like Evo magazine, Top Gear, Car, Magazine, C&D, Jeremy Clarkson, Chris Harris etc. all have said is an astonishing achievement. It is also an astonishing achievement that many owners on this board have dumped their Mclaren MP4-12Cs, F430, 599 GTO, GT3 or Turbo S etc. for the LFA, which does not have the lineage, prestige or the pedigree of those established brands. While I have no doubts, with turbos engines will be smaller yet, continue to follow the progression of more power and getting quicker, car like LFA has never been done by a Japanese company before and doubt any company will go through that in the future. Clarkson went as far as saying "LFA is just so good, maybe not even Lexus knows how to make it again". I don't expect you to admit anything since you would deny anything that does not fit your narrative.

sdiver68

You've got to be joking in still glorifying a 9000 rpm redline. Welcome to the 1999 240hp Honda S2000. Run your calculations on that engine them get back to me on the great LFA.

By the way Toyota had to do something with all the leftovers from their failed F1 program. Exit F1 in 2009, what year was the LFA?

On a Lexus forum I dont expect to gain much support. But if you dont see the genius in engineering required to make a 3800lb volume production car faster than the best Toyota can do on a limited-run halo lightweight high HP car its not me that needs a narrative.

05RollaXRS

Clearly you did not comprehend what I wrote. Whatever happened to mass directly proportional to forces of inertia as I wrote above? Honda S2000 was a 4 cylinder 2.0 Liter engine with a 9000 rpm rev limit (8800 rpm redline) and indeed a great accomplishment by Honda with the highest specific output of all times of 125 HP/Liter without the use of DI. I rank it amongst one of the greatest engines of all times. it is a small displacement car engine that had to be updated with the F22 engine with bigger displacement and (2.2 Liters) and a 8400 rpm redline because of the issues consumers raised with the F20 engine.

LFA is a 4.8 Liter V10 that is more than twice the displacement and more than twice the cylindrical capacity that revs up to 9500 rpm. There is that much more mass, size, weight and as a result opposing forces to fight. It is like taking a string and attaching a 2.0 lbs weight at the end and spinning it, centrifugal force will have far less impact on the string than a say, 5.0 lbs string, which will break the string much more easily because of reciprocating mass and inertia putting far more strain on the string.

I wrote the whole theory of reciprocating mass, inertia and centrifugal force, which increases exponentially with larger displacement Clearly, you did not understand science and hard engineering facts and then you come back and make insulting comments about how you don't get support.

I purposely prefer to stay clear of the numbers debate when it comes to "greatness" simply because I can make a 3600 lbs EVO run a lot faster for a tiny fraction of the money than that particular $110,000 - $150,000 3920 lbs car with far more displacement. You clearly refuse to see when someone talks about a car that is built to do everything well than a car built/updated for a single purpose. If numbers were the biggest reason for the LFA, Lexus could have started by giving it sticky tires or even racing slick tires which nearly every RWD supercar wears today. Your logic has been flawed all along and you continue to refuse to acknowledge anything that does not suit your narrative.

I fully respect your opinion on GTR being the greatest and expect you to stand by it. You are entitled to it and I am not convincing you otherwise.

What my counter argument has always been is about the consistent derogatory tone in your comments especially how you came into this thread proclaiming LFA as nothing more than some sort of a hack and far behind heck even tomagochi from Japan. That clearly was so far fetched, it was laughable. Apparently, you were so pissed that of all the people commenting, only LFA and NSX were being debated for greatness that you went into the deep end in regards to belittling the LFA. This also come across as conveniently insulting the intelligence of those LFA owners on this thread who wrote the cheques of $375,000 to get their LFAs by pigeon holing something that is so multi dimensional and multi faceted (like many other internet warriors) into a single dimension.

sdiver68

Your engineering analysis is outright wrong. 1999 called again! They want their SMG transmission back. And you still haven't acknowledged the poor traction aspects of greatness, or how the same electronics tech of the GTR has ushered in an age of unbelievable performance.

Im posting from a racetrack... lol @ your second ad hominem "internet warrior". Any LFA owner that wants to come out can run some laps Ill get you on as I'm on the BOD of the renting organization. Hallett Raceway through tomorrow. Or how about Road America in August? National Corvette Museum MSP in October?

I havent insulted anyone, given the rising values of the LFA those checks should pay off. I even said I might buy 1 in different circumstances and it probably is one of the most emotional cars in the world.

But I find it laughable that it would be considered a great engineering feat or anything more than a well executed version of the classic Supercar Halo formula. CF Loom aside.

Anyway Im done here. Offer for track time stands. Cheers.

gengar

Sorry, but don't think you'll get support anywhere. Not when you complain that cars that cost as much as the LFA are unimpressive because they are "unobtainable" by "99.99%" of people then proceed to say stuff like:

1. You can't order a factory N Attack Nismo. You have to bring your own Nismo and get it converted by Stillen. The full conversion isn't factory legal in the USA anyway (due to the seats), even Stillen scknowledges this.
2. A Nismo is already $150k. The full N Attack conversion (Package A) is another $98k. So I guess $248k is "obtainable" by the "99.99%", but the LFA isn't.

Pro tip: For people who can afford and are stupid enough to buy these types of cars, the garage space and driving time represents far higher opportunity cost than the difference in price there. (Now that I'm considering buying more cars, I'm starting to understand why car nuts like salmondrin are constantly selling cars.)

Rockville

I have enjoyed this discussion between two knowledgable enthusiasts. Bravo!

Many of the videos of the LFA show it on a deserted Fuji raceway with Mt Fuji looking on approvingly. The whine of the V10 is a soul stirring sound from its collaboration with Yamaha.

Some may forget that the first design was all Aluminum and ready for production when it was scrapped for not being advanced enough. Lexus spent two years learning how to create and manufacture the carbon fiber components. It is ironic that Toyoda was first in the looming mill business but he became obsessed with motor cars after a visit to the United States over a hundred years ago. His son carried on his dream by producing its first car in the mid 30's. They created these monstrous looming mills for weaving the Caron fiber of the LFA. I doubt any other manufacturer would have been able to do that.

A lot of the LFA was hand built by select Takumi craftsmen that were selected as the best in their field of production. That cost is what makes a super car like a Ferrari or LFA so expensive. A lot of the same guild of Takumis will be employed on the new LC500 production.

The most exhilarating experience I have ever had in a car was hurtling down the backstretch at 165 MPH with Scott Pruett at the helm. The prototype had about 10,000 miles on the clock. I asked Scott how the LFA had held up and he said just brakes and tires and no failures! He will soon be piloting the RCF GT3 to victory.

It took years to refine the suspension especially at The Ring. Hiromu Naruse was the chief test driver/engineer who led the team until he gave the ultimate sacrifice when he collapsed at the wheel after 47 years of testing prototypes. When driving the LFA at Miami Scott and the Meister had completely different styles but their track times were eerily similar.

The bespoke LFA is in a class by itself really where numbers fail to explain. It is really a story about
Human expertise and collaboration that is one of the most inspiring chapters in automotive history.
Bravo Narusesan!

happy1977

05RollaXRS

Again, this debate is not just about numbers (that is why NSX was brought up several people and not a single person argued against it using numbers since it does not diminish its significance to the debate).

Just to put context around that video and total picture, Carlos Lago commented they had a lot of difficulties getting LFA quickly off the line back in 2011 when this came out. Also, LFA was already nearly out of production by that time.

The 0-60 mph in the video they could get was 4.1 seconds. About 0.5 seconds slower than the official time. This also happens to be the worst instrument test for straight line of all the tests done on the LFA.

Ferrari had a full testing team over there to ensure their car was functioning at its best.

That 4.1 seconds is barely quicker than an 416 HP ISF to 60 mph and LFA has shown to be that much quicker than the ISF so much so that it vanishes into the horizon pretty quickly on a runway.

With the botched 0-60 mph, LFA still managed to claw back once it hooked up and put down a 124 mph trap speed despite a slow start, which is tied for the third highest trap speed out of 11 cars in that video.

Also, with Randy Pobst, there was similar issue of LFA oversteering too much so much so that he called it too scary. Lexus was rotating the same single corporate LFA #032 to all of the press (including doing all-day laps with potential customers) so it cannot be ruled out that there was something off about it.

Despite the challenges, LFA that day with Pobst in all cars put down the same lap time as a 458 Italia and 2nd quickest acceleration on the back straights. Randy even went on to say, if they put Z06's Michelin Cup 2 slick tires and this is what the words were:

The refrain then became, “Sure, the ‘Vette’s fast. But put those tires on the LFA, and just let’s see what’s what.”

Still that mattered less around Laguna Seca track since LFA had the second highest back straight speed (tied with R8 GT) out of 11 cars, which shows it was one of the hardest accelerating car once it got going.

Laguna Seca Back Straight Speed:

Lexus LFA - 133.2 mph
Nissan GTR - 130.8 mph
Ferrari 458 Italia - 136 mph
Porsche 911 GT3 RS - 129 mph
R8 GT - 133.5 mph


Lexus officially had released this 0-90 mph video of Scott Pruett launching the LFA on a good clean surface and cracking around what appears to be like around a solid 3.3 - 3.4 seconds 0-60 mph (taking into account the typical standardized 1 foot roll out). It certainly would have been a much better outcome for the LFA as the true and real capabilities of the LFA don't deserve the hate internet warriors throw at it with such sensationalized "drag races", if they could get a launch like this:



Test results around Laguna Seca: