LFA - The Worst Halo Car of all Time ?!?!
10-31-14, 10:16 AM
#16
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I know you love this car and are the one who posts overwhelmingly in this forum and keeps the forum from being basically dead but people are going to have different opinions on the LFA.
It does not matter other less expensive cars are quicker then more expensive cars, the LFA still has some rather unimpressive performance specs considering the price and how new it was which did not help in its perception. 918 has done 0-60 in a Veyron equivalent 2.5 seconds, have not seen a 911 Turbo S beat that(came very close) and a 918 will be even more impressive at higher speeds then a 911 Turbo. You could say every high powered car is traction limited to 0-60 as an excuse for the LFA, the LFA is not even some torque monster like other high powered cars. 0-60 is not everything and I don't want it to seem like I am putting down the LFA, because I still think it is a good car and I am happy they at least built it, my issue with it had more to do with its price for its performance and such small numbers produced that it is unlikely to ever be seen on the road by 99% of people and won't do much for the brand. It does not make much sense for a common large scale automaker to make a car so expensive and in so little numbers. I makes sense for Bugatti or Lamborghini doing it but not Toyota/Lexus.
Nurburgring lap times have as much to do with drivers/tires/tuning as they do cars and it is a place 99.9% of sports car owners will never take their car to, other performance variables are achievable by 99% of drivers.
Before the LFA was released many even on here were speculating it would weigh well under 3000lbs due to the switch to carbon fiber, outperform a McLaren F1/Veyron, have over 600hp, and cost 160K to 180K, and look more like the concepts, none of which happened, the final product did not exactly meet most expectations and the price was shocking. The LFA did not shock the world, change the way sports cars are made, or put other makers on notice, it more or less came and went without many even noticing it.
The fact is any car company could make a monster supercar priced at 375K.
For a huge brand like Toyota/Lexus they don't have to price a low volume high end sports car to make a profit like Ferrari, Lamborghini, etc they have the money and cushioning from other sales to take a loss on the car. In my opinion I think the purpose of the LFA should have been or was to show the public Lexus can and will be building more driver focused cars and to give attention to the F performance cars, pricing it lower, building more, and having the car visible and seen by more of the public and having one at most dealerships would accomplish this even if it meant selling it at a big loss. Instead they just built 500 at a really high price ensuring 99% of the public will never even see one or know anything about it, many LFA's are/have already been on ebay, others have not even been sold to customers, they were bought by dealerships and just sitting around often hidden from the public.
That being said I don't agree with Jalapnik in that the LFA is the worst Halo Car of all time or their childish opinions on Lexus/Lexus drivers but there are some points in that article and what other posters have said that are true and I agree with, they are not the only ones to be critical of the LFA or its role either.
It does not matter other less expensive cars are quicker then more expensive cars, the LFA still has some rather unimpressive performance specs considering the price and how new it was which did not help in its perception. 918 has done 0-60 in a Veyron equivalent 2.5 seconds, have not seen a 911 Turbo S beat that(came very close) and a 918 will be even more impressive at higher speeds then a 911 Turbo. You could say every high powered car is traction limited to 0-60 as an excuse for the LFA, the LFA is not even some torque monster like other high powered cars. 0-60 is not everything and I don't want it to seem like I am putting down the LFA, because I still think it is a good car and I am happy they at least built it, my issue with it had more to do with its price for its performance and such small numbers produced that it is unlikely to ever be seen on the road by 99% of people and won't do much for the brand. It does not make much sense for a common large scale automaker to make a car so expensive and in so little numbers. I makes sense for Bugatti or Lamborghini doing it but not Toyota/Lexus.
Nurburgring lap times have as much to do with drivers/tires/tuning as they do cars and it is a place 99.9% of sports car owners will never take their car to, other performance variables are achievable by 99% of drivers.
Before the LFA was released many even on here were speculating it would weigh well under 3000lbs due to the switch to carbon fiber, outperform a McLaren F1/Veyron, have over 600hp, and cost 160K to 180K, and look more like the concepts, none of which happened, the final product did not exactly meet most expectations and the price was shocking. The LFA did not shock the world, change the way sports cars are made, or put other makers on notice, it more or less came and went without many even noticing it.
The fact is any car company could make a monster supercar priced at 375K.
For a huge brand like Toyota/Lexus they don't have to price a low volume high end sports car to make a profit like Ferrari, Lamborghini, etc they have the money and cushioning from other sales to take a loss on the car. In my opinion I think the purpose of the LFA should have been or was to show the public Lexus can and will be building more driver focused cars and to give attention to the F performance cars, pricing it lower, building more, and having the car visible and seen by more of the public and having one at most dealerships would accomplish this even if it meant selling it at a big loss. Instead they just built 500 at a really high price ensuring 99% of the public will never even see one or know anything about it, many LFA's are/have already been on ebay, others have not even been sold to customers, they were bought by dealerships and just sitting around often hidden from the public.
That being said I don't agree with Jalapnik in that the LFA is the worst Halo Car of all time or their childish opinions on Lexus/Lexus drivers but there are some points in that article and what other posters have said that are true and I agree with, they are not the only ones to be critical of the LFA or its role either.
How in the world did you make that analogy?
10-31-14, 12:23 PM
#18
Lexus Test Driver
I know you love this car and are the one who posts overwhelmingly in this forum and keeps the forum from being basically dead but people are going to have different opinions on the LFA.
In this case, I clearly saw your post's rational and objective argument or the lack thereof. For example, you claiming LFA should have been priced at $165,000 is the laughable comment I read in this entire post, which is what triggered my response.
It did well when it came out in 2009. It tested faster in 2010 than a 612 HP Ferrari 599 GTB HGTE in acceleration numbers and handling numbers. About even with a 620 HP GT2 RS in a 1/4 mile drag race. That was pretty much as good as it could have gotten.
Most importantly, even after 6 years, it still is able to beat many of the much newer generation supercars around a race track (See 2014 Goodwood Festival time attack competition). It was fastest car that day despite being 7 years old. A Lexus car beating Porsche 911 Turbo S, F12, SLS AMG black series on the same day and on the same track, would have been unimaginable by anyone a few years ago.
https://www.clublexus.com/forums/lfa...ill-climb.html
or Maybe, Top Gear USA power lap times by The Stig
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Top_Gea...._TV_series%29
Still to this day, very few cars can match LFA's best of nearly 76 mph slalom speed and 1.10 g lateral acceleration even on racing slick tires, let alone without them like the LFA.
Again, that is your own subjective opinions, but there are tons of examples of how LFA exceeded what a typical person would have thought it would be capable of.
918 has done 0-60 in a Veyron equivalent 2.5 seconds, have not seen a 911 Turbo S beat that(came very close) and a 918 will be even more impressive at higher speeds then a 911 Turbo.
You could say every high powered car is traction limited to 0-60 as an excuse for the LFA, the LFA is not even some torque monster like other high powered cars.
Why? Because wheel torque is a function of engine torque and gear multiplication. LFA has short gearing and it revs too quickly to redline, which results in the car torching its tires off the line, if launched from 4500 rpm. If it had sticky racing compound tires, this would not have been an issue, but it is because of the Potenza tires. That typically makes a 2/10 - 3/10ths of a difference off the line.
Nurburgring Edition LFA (in SportAuto) launched better because of better tires and actually posted 11.2 seconds because of that (with 2 people onboard).
Here is what MotorTrend wrote regarding difficulties getting traction off the line in Lexus LFA since it kept torching its tires when trying to launch it from 4000 rpm.
A great launch means only a chirp of the tires and blistering acceleration, but vary the rpm just bit and the LFA torches its rubber before rocketing down the strip.
Even with launch control, the traction control kills power as soon as it senses wheel spin. The yellow light flickering is traction control cutting power. Once it hooks up, it accelerates extremely fast (this is a 3.5 - 3.6 seconds 0-60 mph run)
Nurburgring lap times have as much to do with drivers/tires/tuning as they do cars and it is a place 99.9% of sports car owners will never take their car to, other performance variables are achievable by 99% of drivers.
Before the LFA was released many even on here were speculating it would weigh well under 3000lbs due to the switch to carbon fiber, outperform a McLaren F1/Veyron, have over 600hp, and cost 160K to 180K, and look more like the concepts, none of which happened, the final product did not exactly meet most expectations and the price was shocking.
What proof do you have that Lexus LFA would weigh under 3000 lbs and would outperform McLaren F1/Veyron with 600 HP in a straight line. That is not even physically possible. There is no car on earth that makes 600 HP (even with 3000 lbs weight) that can beat those cars in acceleration. I would like to see proof, if you have one. For example, the Ferrari 458 Speciale makes 595 HP and weighs 3000 lbs. It is nowhere near the McLaren F1 or Veyron in a straight line.
p.s. Lexus LFA outperforms the Bugatti Veyron around a race track.
The LFA did not shock the world, change the way sports cars are made, or put other makers on notice, it more or less came and went without many even noticing it.
Again, that is your own personal subjective opinion.
It did shock everyone who drove it. That is why it was universally raved about and still after 2 years of production ending, is included in the top 5 and top 10 greatest cars ever made. In many comparos, that is why it was beating Ferraris and Lambos. The people who drove it were shocked and surprised. Not the people who are sitting behind a keyboard.
The fact is any car company could make a monster supercar priced at 375K.
You need to question what you think constitutes "monster supercar". Numbers does not make a monster supercar since that is the easiest thing in the world to build. What is difficult, is to create a very unique and different driving experience that is rewarding to the driver because that does not come with spending more money on a car. That can only be achieved through attention to very fine detail.
The fact that LFA sounds and responds like no other car. The fact that it is built all out of carbon fiber, revs to 9500 rpm and has agility that is matched by very few cars, is what makes it the $375,000 supercar. Not the numbers.
For a huge brand like Toyota/Lexus they don't have to price a low volume high end sports car to make a profit like Ferrari, Lamborghini, etc they have the money and cushioning from other sales to take a loss on the car. In my opinion I think the purpose of the LFA should have been or was to show the public Lexus can and will be building more driver focused cars and to give attention to the F performance cars, pricing it lower, building more, and having the car visible and seen by more of the public and having one at most dealerships would accomplish this even if it meant selling it at a big loss. Instead they just built 500 at a really high price ensuring 99% of the public will never even see one or know anything about it,
many LFA's are/have already been on ebay, others have not even been sold to customers, they were bought by dealerships and just sitting around often hidden from the public.
According to my research, only 12 LFAs in the US are up for sale (out of the 178). Where exactly are you seeing the other LFAs on ebay? Can you post links to those?
p.s. Dupont is the most used exotic sales e-commerce website.
http://www.dupontregistry.com/autos/results/lexus/lfa
Last edited by 05RollaXRS; 10-31-14 at 02:36 PM.
11-01-14, 08:00 AM
#19
Rookie
Thread Starter
LFA vs the World....
Yes, I am the guy who started this post and I wanted to make a few comments. As Rolla mentioned I came out of a 2011 911 Turbo S in which I had upgraded the software so it was running close to 600 hp. Prior to that I owned a 2010 911 GT3RS. I have owned various and sundry 911s prior to the GT3RS, including several Turbos. So one can say that I am a "911 lover" - the car is indeed an icon.
I appreciate 911s so much that I recently went out and test drove a 2014 911 Turbo S. It was a dealer demo with just a few hundred miles and my dealer was willing to make me a very good deal. Besides being among the best "bang for the buck" cars in the world in terms of performance, it has the added benefit of a backseat, which having small children was a bonus for me.
So, given that I love 911s and I missed owning one, and that the new 911 Turbo S has 0-60 times that are arguably the second best in the world (2.6 sec - only beaten by the Bugatti Veyron) I was certain I would buy it and incur the wrath of my wife for owning two supercars. But I did not, in fact, I was disappointed by the Turbo S even though it was a much more advanced car than the one I owned several years previously. No fault of the Turbo S but it lacked the visceral feel, the passion if you will, that I had become accustomed to by the LFA. In fact, it wasn't even close.
My one year love affair with the LFA has made me appreciate things other than 0-60 times. I am well beyond street racing and while the car mags make a big point of acceleration times I have learned that they mean little to me. While I am very happy with the acceleration of the LFA (and I think to break 3 seconds from 0-60 all wheel drive traction is a requirement) it is the way it gets to speed that makes the car so special. In fact it feels far faster than the Turbo S even though it is close to a second slower.
It is indeed unfortunate that more people can't experience the uniqueness of the LFA because it truly is something special. Beginning with the engine - it is perhaps the finest engine ever made. Lightweight and normally aspirated it is a jewel to behold. I believe it will be remembered as the greatest normally aspirated engine ever made especially given the move to turbos and hybrids. I have a friend who owns just about every limited edition Ferrari and quite a few Paganis - he still appreciates the engine of the LFA just about more than any other car. The sound - well the sound is simply sublime with only the $450k Carerra GT coming close, in my opinion.
Clarkson likes to talk about its throttle response - and he is right. And the handling, fit and finish - all exemplary. I shall post pics one day of the entire, sealed bottom of the car (after the next oil change, I promise) which is make just about entirely of carbon fiber. I have never seen a car underside with the attention to fit and finish of the LFA. Of course hardly anyone ever sees the underside of the car - but it gives you some idea what the rest of the car is like. The cockpit for example - is perfect.
I wish I could better enunciate the wonder which is the LFA. Perhaps the best way I can put it is it ruined me for the 911 Turbo S and that is quite a feat. Of course this is one man's opinion but I honestly wish all the naysayers in this thread could experience it - if only just once.
BTW, I wholly agree and endorse the comment by Levi68 - "If the majority/mass hates the LFA, it means something is really right about it, more than any other car. Simple law of life." !
I appreciate 911s so much that I recently went out and test drove a 2014 911 Turbo S. It was a dealer demo with just a few hundred miles and my dealer was willing to make me a very good deal. Besides being among the best "bang for the buck" cars in the world in terms of performance, it has the added benefit of a backseat, which having small children was a bonus for me.
So, given that I love 911s and I missed owning one, and that the new 911 Turbo S has 0-60 times that are arguably the second best in the world (2.6 sec - only beaten by the Bugatti Veyron) I was certain I would buy it and incur the wrath of my wife for owning two supercars. But I did not, in fact, I was disappointed by the Turbo S even though it was a much more advanced car than the one I owned several years previously. No fault of the Turbo S but it lacked the visceral feel, the passion if you will, that I had become accustomed to by the LFA. In fact, it wasn't even close.
My one year love affair with the LFA has made me appreciate things other than 0-60 times. I am well beyond street racing and while the car mags make a big point of acceleration times I have learned that they mean little to me. While I am very happy with the acceleration of the LFA (and I think to break 3 seconds from 0-60 all wheel drive traction is a requirement) it is the way it gets to speed that makes the car so special. In fact it feels far faster than the Turbo S even though it is close to a second slower.
It is indeed unfortunate that more people can't experience the uniqueness of the LFA because it truly is something special. Beginning with the engine - it is perhaps the finest engine ever made. Lightweight and normally aspirated it is a jewel to behold. I believe it will be remembered as the greatest normally aspirated engine ever made especially given the move to turbos and hybrids. I have a friend who owns just about every limited edition Ferrari and quite a few Paganis - he still appreciates the engine of the LFA just about more than any other car. The sound - well the sound is simply sublime with only the $450k Carerra GT coming close, in my opinion.
Clarkson likes to talk about its throttle response - and he is right. And the handling, fit and finish - all exemplary. I shall post pics one day of the entire, sealed bottom of the car (after the next oil change, I promise) which is make just about entirely of carbon fiber. I have never seen a car underside with the attention to fit and finish of the LFA. Of course hardly anyone ever sees the underside of the car - but it gives you some idea what the rest of the car is like. The cockpit for example - is perfect.
I wish I could better enunciate the wonder which is the LFA. Perhaps the best way I can put it is it ruined me for the 911 Turbo S and that is quite a feat. Of course this is one man's opinion but I honestly wish all the naysayers in this thread could experience it - if only just once.
BTW, I wholly agree and endorse the comment by Levi68 - "If the majority/mass hates the LFA, it means something is really right about it, more than any other car. Simple law of life." !
11-01-14, 11:18 AM
#20
Super Moderator
Yes, I am the guy who started this post and I wanted to make a few comments. As Rolla mentioned I came out of a 2011 911 Turbo S in which I had upgraded the software so it was running close to 600 hp. Prior to that I owned a 2010 911 GT3RS. I have owned various and sundry 911s prior to the GT3RS, including several Turbos. So one can say that I am a "911 lover" - the car is indeed an icon.
I appreciate 911s so much that I recently went out and test drove a 2014 911 Turbo S. It was a dealer demo with just a few hundred miles and my dealer was willing to make me a very good deal. Besides being among the best "bang for the buck" cars in the world in terms of performance, it has the added benefit of a backseat, which having small children was a bonus for me.
So, given that I love 911s and I missed owning one, and that the new 911 Turbo S has 0-60 times that are arguably the second best in the world (2.6 sec - only beaten by the Bugatti Veyron) I was certain I would buy it and incur the wrath of my wife for owning two supercars. But I did not, in fact, I was disappointed by the Turbo S even though it was a much more advanced car than the one I owned several years previously. No fault of the Turbo S but it lacked the visceral feel, the passion if you will, that I had become accustomed to by the LFA. In fact, it wasn't even close.
My one year love affair with the LFA has made me appreciate things other than 0-60 times. I am well beyond street racing and while the car mags make a big point of acceleration times I have learned that they mean little to me. While I am very happy with the acceleration of the LFA (and I think to break 3 seconds from 0-60 all wheel drive traction is a requirement) it is the way it gets to speed that makes the car so special. In fact it feels far faster than the Turbo S even though it is close to a second slower.
It is indeed unfortunate that more people can't experience the uniqueness of the LFA because it truly is something special. Beginning with the engine - it is perhaps the finest engine ever made. Lightweight and normally aspirated it is a jewel to behold. I believe it will be remembered as the greatest normally aspirated engine ever made especially given the move to turbos and hybrids. I have a friend who owns just about every limited edition Ferrari and quite a few Paganis - he still appreciates the engine of the LFA just about more than any other car. The sound - well the sound is simply sublime with only the $450k Carerra GT coming close, in my opinion.
Clarkson likes to talk about its throttle response - and he is right. And the handling, fit and finish - all exemplary. I shall post pics one day of the entire, sealed bottom of the car (after the next oil change, I promise) which is make just about entirely of carbon fiber. I have never seen a car underside with the attention to fit and finish of the LFA. Of course hardly anyone ever sees the underside of the car - but it gives you some idea what the rest of the car is like. The cockpit for example - is perfect.
I wish I could better enunciate the wonder which is the LFA. Perhaps the best way I can put it is it ruined me for the 911 Turbo S and that is quite a feat. Of course this is one man's opinion but I honestly wish all the naysayers in this thread could experience it - if only just once.
BTW, I wholly agree and endorse the comment by Levi68 - "If the majority/mass hates the LFA, it means something is really right about it, more than any other car. Simple law of life." !
I appreciate 911s so much that I recently went out and test drove a 2014 911 Turbo S. It was a dealer demo with just a few hundred miles and my dealer was willing to make me a very good deal. Besides being among the best "bang for the buck" cars in the world in terms of performance, it has the added benefit of a backseat, which having small children was a bonus for me.
So, given that I love 911s and I missed owning one, and that the new 911 Turbo S has 0-60 times that are arguably the second best in the world (2.6 sec - only beaten by the Bugatti Veyron) I was certain I would buy it and incur the wrath of my wife for owning two supercars. But I did not, in fact, I was disappointed by the Turbo S even though it was a much more advanced car than the one I owned several years previously. No fault of the Turbo S but it lacked the visceral feel, the passion if you will, that I had become accustomed to by the LFA. In fact, it wasn't even close.
My one year love affair with the LFA has made me appreciate things other than 0-60 times. I am well beyond street racing and while the car mags make a big point of acceleration times I have learned that they mean little to me. While I am very happy with the acceleration of the LFA (and I think to break 3 seconds from 0-60 all wheel drive traction is a requirement) it is the way it gets to speed that makes the car so special. In fact it feels far faster than the Turbo S even though it is close to a second slower.
It is indeed unfortunate that more people can't experience the uniqueness of the LFA because it truly is something special. Beginning with the engine - it is perhaps the finest engine ever made. Lightweight and normally aspirated it is a jewel to behold. I believe it will be remembered as the greatest normally aspirated engine ever made especially given the move to turbos and hybrids. I have a friend who owns just about every limited edition Ferrari and quite a few Paganis - he still appreciates the engine of the LFA just about more than any other car. The sound - well the sound is simply sublime with only the $450k Carerra GT coming close, in my opinion.
Clarkson likes to talk about its throttle response - and he is right. And the handling, fit and finish - all exemplary. I shall post pics one day of the entire, sealed bottom of the car (after the next oil change, I promise) which is make just about entirely of carbon fiber. I have never seen a car underside with the attention to fit and finish of the LFA. Of course hardly anyone ever sees the underside of the car - but it gives you some idea what the rest of the car is like. The cockpit for example - is perfect.
I wish I could better enunciate the wonder which is the LFA. Perhaps the best way I can put it is it ruined me for the 911 Turbo S and that is quite a feat. Of course this is one man's opinion but I honestly wish all the naysayers in this thread could experience it - if only just once.
BTW, I wholly agree and endorse the comment by Levi68 - "If the majority/mass hates the LFA, it means something is really right about it, more than any other car. Simple law of life." !
You can't even hate something if you know so little about it.
And the LFA/Lexus "haters" you see in many internet websites do not come close to representing the general public anyway.
I think many, if not all the naysayers in this thread are not complaining about the virtues of the LFA, I for example, love the car, but the criticism is towards Toyota's marketing/pricing the car the wrong way, maybe not to the fortunate owners who actually bought one for themselves(not for their dealership
) , but for the Lexus brand.They perhaps missed a good opportunity to demonstrate their ability to make a world class supercar to the masses,.
For sure they impressed a lot of sports car enthusiasts and professionals, so of course it's not hard at all to find links and videos praising the LFA as a great sports car, but the unfortunate thing is, like you also said basically the same in your post, it's too bad the general public, which a mass market brand like Lexus should be appealing to, are not exposed to the LFA nearly enough,
It's OK for Ferrari and Porsche to limit themselves to building 399 enzo's, and 1400 Carrera GT's because they have a long established reputation building sports car, but you can't build/change a brand image for Lexus with a "halo car" like the LFA if you have only 500 in the world and they are almost never seen on the public roads anywhere.
Most are not even aware of it's existence, and for the small minority that have heard of it, they only get to see it in magazines and internet videos mostly, and few actually see one on the road, never mind experience it themselves.
11-01-14, 11:36 AM
#21
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The is only one car that comes close to the LFA or even surpasses it: Pagani. However there is a main difference between Pagani and LFA. The Pagani is more a pieces of art, whereas the LFA is a pure functional tool. No car is ever built like a LFA or Pagani, that means without consideration of costs. While the LFA performance is just on par with other cars of its category, its price is beyond its rivals. But that price completely reflects what is not seen in the LFA, and that is not exclusivity. IMO its price is justified even if there were 5,000 units produced. If I had the money I'd take the LFA over anything else. Another car wish I feel going in the same direction is the NSX II. There is so much hate on it, so I think it is going to be a great car. The LFA took many years to come to road and is the best sports car ever built, so does the NSX take a long time, and I have little doubt of it being a great car.
11-01-14, 11:44 AM
#22
Super Moderator
I don't really see much "hate" on the "NSX II" with the possible exception of comments from fanboys of rival brands
Yes, there are a lot of people who got turned off because it gets talked about for too many years without it getting green light for production, but that has nothing to do with how good the car would be itself.
Yes, I am sure it would be an impressive car to many, if not all, when it is finally produced.
Yes, there are a lot of people who got turned off because it gets talked about for too many years without it getting green light for production, but that has nothing to do with how good the car would be itself.
Yes, I am sure it would be an impressive car to many, if not all, when it is finally produced.
11-01-14, 11:49 AM
#23
Super Moderator
The is only one car that comes close to the LFA or even surpasses it: Pagani. However there is a main difference between Pagani and LFA. The Pagani is more a pieces of art, whereas the LFA is a pure functional tool. No car is ever built like a LFA or Pagani, that means without consideration of costs. While the LFA performance is just on par with other cars of its category, its price is beyond its rivals. But that price completely reflects what is not seen in the LFA, and that is not exclusivity. IMO its price is justified even if there were 5,000 units produced. If I had the money I'd take the LFA over anything else. Another car wish I feel going in the same direction is the NSX II. There is so much hate on it, so I think it is going to be a great car. The LFA took many years to come to road and is the best sports car ever built, so does the NSX take a long time, and I have little doubt of it being a great car.
The question is, regardless of how many they want to build to sell at that price, how many would actually buy one for themselves(again those who actually want to own one, excluding those who bought one for their dearship) in the real world ?
Last edited by Gojirra99; 11-01-14 at 11:52 AM.
11-01-14, 01:18 PM
#24
Rookie
Thread Starter
Pagani....
The is only one car that comes close to the LFA or even surpasses it: Pagani. However there is a main difference between Pagani and LFA. The Pagani is more a pieces of art, whereas the LFA is a pure functional tool. No car is ever built like a LFA or Pagani, that means without consideration of costs. While the LFA performance is just on par with other cars of its category, its price is beyond its rivals. But that price completely reflects what is not seen in the LFA, and that is not exclusivity. IMO its price is justified even if there were 5,000 units produced. If I had the money I'd take the LFA over anything else. Another car wish I feel going in the same direction is the NSX II. There is so much hate on it, so I think it is going to be a great car. The LFA took many years to come to road and is the best sports car ever built, so does the NSX take a long time, and I have little doubt of it being a great car.
I don't know much about the NSX2 yet, but I also think it will be a special car.
11-01-14, 01:35 PM
#25
Lexus Test Driver
Best post in the entire thread. Glad to hear first hand from an LFA owner. Thanks for sharing your experiences. Not often when an actual LFA owner posts on this forum.
I believe LFA feels faster to you than the 991 Porsche Turbo S because LFA certainly accelerates quicker at once it hooks up and on streets and freeways, 95% of the time you are using the rolling start acceleration and LFA will definitely feel quicker in those situations. Almost never would be a time where you would be launching hard off a traffic light, which is where the Porsche Turbo S AWD, low end torque will work its magic.
That is why both LFA and Porsche Turbo S reach close 124 - 126 mph trap speeds in 1320 feet despite the Porsche Turbo S being 1 second quicker to leave off the line.
BTW, how would rate LFA's single-clutch automated transmission versus the Turbo S PDK?
I believe LFA feels faster to you than the 991 Porsche Turbo S because LFA certainly accelerates quicker at once it hooks up and on streets and freeways, 95% of the time you are using the rolling start acceleration and LFA will definitely feel quicker in those situations. Almost never would be a time where you would be launching hard off a traffic light, which is where the Porsche Turbo S AWD, low end torque will work its magic.
That is why both LFA and Porsche Turbo S reach close 124 - 126 mph trap speeds in 1320 feet despite the Porsche Turbo S being 1 second quicker to leave off the line.
BTW, how would rate LFA's single-clutch automated transmission versus the Turbo S PDK?
Yes, I am the guy who started this post and I wanted to make a few comments. As Rolla mentioned I came out of a 2011 911 Turbo S in which I had upgraded the software so it was running close to 600 hp. Prior to that I owned a 2010 911 GT3RS. I have owned various and sundry 911s prior to the GT3RS, including several Turbos. So one can say that I am a "911 lover" - the car is indeed an icon.
I appreciate 911s so much that I recently went out and test drove a 2014 911 Turbo S. It was a dealer demo with just a few hundred miles and my dealer was willing to make me a very good deal. Besides being among the best "bang for the buck" cars in the world in terms of performance, it has the added benefit of a backseat, which having small children was a bonus for me.
So, given that I love 911s and I missed owning one, and that the new 911 Turbo S has 0-60 times that are arguably the second best in the world (2.6 sec - only beaten by the Bugatti Veyron) I was certain I would buy it and incur the wrath of my wife for owning two supercars. But I did not, in fact, I was disappointed by the Turbo S even though it was a much more advanced car than the one I owned several years previously. No fault of the Turbo S but it lacked the visceral feel, the passion if you will, that I had become accustomed to by the LFA. In fact, it wasn't even close.
My one year love affair with the LFA has made me appreciate things other than 0-60 times. I am well beyond street racing and while the car mags make a big point of acceleration times I have learned that they mean little to me. While I am very happy with the acceleration of the LFA (and I think to break 3 seconds from 0-60 all wheel drive traction is a requirement) it is the way it gets to speed that makes the car so special. In fact it feels far faster than the Turbo S even though it is close to a second slower.
It is indeed unfortunate that more people can't experience the uniqueness of the LFA because it truly is something special. Beginning with the engine - it is perhaps the finest engine ever made. Lightweight and normally aspirated it is a jewel to behold. I believe it will be remembered as the greatest normally aspirated engine ever made especially given the move to turbos and hybrids. I have a friend who owns just about every limited edition Ferrari and quite a few Paganis - he still appreciates the engine of the LFA just about more than any other car. The sound - well the sound is simply sublime with only the $450k Carerra GT coming close, in my opinion.
Clarkson likes to talk about its throttle response - and he is right. And the handling, fit and finish - all exemplary. I shall post pics one day of the entire, sealed bottom of the car (after the next oil change, I promise) which is make just about entirely of carbon fiber. I have never seen a car underside with the attention to fit and finish of the LFA. Of course hardly anyone ever sees the underside of the car - but it gives you some idea what the rest of the car is like. The cockpit for example - is perfect.
I wish I could better enunciate the wonder which is the LFA. Perhaps the best way I can put it is it ruined me for the 911 Turbo S and that is quite a feat. Of course this is one man's opinion but I honestly wish all the naysayers in this thread could experience it - if only just once.
BTW, I wholly agree and endorse the comment by Levi68 - "If the majority/mass hates the LFA, it means something is really right about it, more than any other car. Simple law of life." !
I appreciate 911s so much that I recently went out and test drove a 2014 911 Turbo S. It was a dealer demo with just a few hundred miles and my dealer was willing to make me a very good deal. Besides being among the best "bang for the buck" cars in the world in terms of performance, it has the added benefit of a backseat, which having small children was a bonus for me.
So, given that I love 911s and I missed owning one, and that the new 911 Turbo S has 0-60 times that are arguably the second best in the world (2.6 sec - only beaten by the Bugatti Veyron) I was certain I would buy it and incur the wrath of my wife for owning two supercars. But I did not, in fact, I was disappointed by the Turbo S even though it was a much more advanced car than the one I owned several years previously. No fault of the Turbo S but it lacked the visceral feel, the passion if you will, that I had become accustomed to by the LFA. In fact, it wasn't even close.
My one year love affair with the LFA has made me appreciate things other than 0-60 times. I am well beyond street racing and while the car mags make a big point of acceleration times I have learned that they mean little to me. While I am very happy with the acceleration of the LFA (and I think to break 3 seconds from 0-60 all wheel drive traction is a requirement) it is the way it gets to speed that makes the car so special. In fact it feels far faster than the Turbo S even though it is close to a second slower.
It is indeed unfortunate that more people can't experience the uniqueness of the LFA because it truly is something special. Beginning with the engine - it is perhaps the finest engine ever made. Lightweight and normally aspirated it is a jewel to behold. I believe it will be remembered as the greatest normally aspirated engine ever made especially given the move to turbos and hybrids. I have a friend who owns just about every limited edition Ferrari and quite a few Paganis - he still appreciates the engine of the LFA just about more than any other car. The sound - well the sound is simply sublime with only the $450k Carerra GT coming close, in my opinion.
Clarkson likes to talk about its throttle response - and he is right. And the handling, fit and finish - all exemplary. I shall post pics one day of the entire, sealed bottom of the car (after the next oil change, I promise) which is make just about entirely of carbon fiber. I have never seen a car underside with the attention to fit and finish of the LFA. Of course hardly anyone ever sees the underside of the car - but it gives you some idea what the rest of the car is like. The cockpit for example - is perfect.
I wish I could better enunciate the wonder which is the LFA. Perhaps the best way I can put it is it ruined me for the 911 Turbo S and that is quite a feat. Of course this is one man's opinion but I honestly wish all the naysayers in this thread could experience it - if only just once.
BTW, I wholly agree and endorse the comment by Levi68 - "If the majority/mass hates the LFA, it means something is really right about it, more than any other car. Simple law of life." !
Last edited by 05RollaXRS; 11-01-14 at 01:52 PM.
11-02-14, 04:52 AM
#26
Rookie
Thread Starter
Clutch question
I was initially put off by the single clutch transmission of the LFA - especially coming off the PDK of the 911s. But I have actually grown to like it - it seems more natural and possibly even makes one feel more as 'one with the car'.
While many have said that Lexus chose the single clutch because the DCT or PDK was not available during the initial development, I believe an additional reason - besides the true race car feeling - was weight savings as the DCT was nearly double the weight.
Regardless, I have learned to appreciate and enjoy the LFA transmission.
While many have said that Lexus chose the single clutch because the DCT or PDK was not available during the initial development, I believe an additional reason - besides the true race car feeling - was weight savings as the DCT was nearly double the weight.
Regardless, I have learned to appreciate and enjoy the LFA transmission.
11-02-14, 07:21 PM
#27
Lexus Test Driver
I was initially put off by the single clutch transmission of the LFA - especially coming off the PDK of the 911s. But I have actually grown to like it - it seems more natural and possibly even makes one feel more as 'one with the car'.
While many have said that Lexus chose the single clutch because the DCT or PDK was not available during the initial development, I believe an additional reason - besides the true race car feeling - was weight savings as the DCT was nearly double the weight.
Regardless, I have learned to appreciate and enjoy the LFA transmission.
While many have said that Lexus chose the single clutch because the DCT or PDK was not available during the initial development, I believe an additional reason - besides the true race car feeling - was weight savings as the DCT was nearly double the weight.
Regardless, I have learned to appreciate and enjoy the LFA transmission.
Regarding why Lexus chose a single clutch automated, from what I read in interviews, dual clutch transmission technology was available in the early 2000s. Tanahashi had stated in the early stages LFA was tested with all three different types of transmissions 6 speed manual (believe it or on there is a small clip of LFA with a 6 speed manual testing on Nurburgring). single clutch and a borg-warner built dual clutch unit.
In the end Lexus picked the single clutch automated because Tanahashi did not like the smooth feel of the double clutch. Also, LFA uses the same single clutch transmission in the Gazoo LFA and LFA Code X racing cars while most of the double clutch production cars swap for a single-clutch sequential gear box in their racing car variants (458 Challenge or SLS GT3, for instance).
Other than that, though not as quick as PDK, you are right that the single clutch transmission is a much simpler, lighter design and more compact gear box. It weighs roughly half as much as an equivalent double clutch unit, can rev higher while having much better durability and reliability.
Personally, I love the sound of the 'bark' during the LFA shifting that makes this transmission great. DCT cars sound like automatics during shift. This video illustrates how amazing LFA sounds in upshifts and downshifts
p.s. Another interesting tidbit for you, Tanahasi initially developed LFA with a target of making it rev up to 10,000 rpm. However, Lexus did not approve a 10,000 rpm redline for production so it had to be set to 9,000 rpm.
Last edited by 05RollaXRS; 11-02-14 at 07:57 PM.
11-02-14, 07:40 PM
#28
Lead Lap
I personally feel that the LFA is not the halo car. A halo car as stated by the article is one you can see around town and makes you want to go to the dealer. That I think is going to be the LF-LC (when released) and currently is the RC-F.
LFA just showcases that the Japanese have the technology and the passion now to build amazing cars.
Also I feel that 0-60 and Ring laptimes are deceptive. Take the Toyota 86/ Scion FR-S for the example. Slow as anything but puts a huge smile on your face
LFA just showcases that the Japanese have the technology and the passion now to build amazing cars.
Also I feel that 0-60 and Ring laptimes are deceptive. Take the Toyota 86/ Scion FR-S for the example. Slow as anything but puts a huge smile on your face
