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Norwegian car magazine: Lexus LFA vs SL65 AMG Black series challenge

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Old 05-26-14, 10:13 AM
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Default Norwegian car magazine: Lexus LFA vs SL65 AMG Black series challenge

Just found this.

They pit a 670 HP SL65 AMG black series against the only LFA in Norway (owner gave them permission to take the LFA to the track).

Apparently, Lexus LFA stomped the SL65 AMG black series all across the race track running a full 6.5 seconds quicker across the track


Tomorrow marks the day of the final Panser Season 1 episode. I've had a lot of fun with these guys over the last year, and honestly feel like we've saved the best for last... MAX tomorrow at 21:30 Norwegian time.





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Old 05-27-14, 11:03 AM
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wrong car for comparison imho anyway. get a sls bs and i think it's a good one
Old 05-27-14, 11:52 AM
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Originally Posted by rominl
wrong car for comparison imho anyway. get a sls bs and i think it's a good one
Yep, it's no surprise the SL65 can't hang on the track, 120hp advantage or not. That thing has got to weigh well over 4,000lbs.
Old 05-27-14, 02:34 PM
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Originally Posted by gengar
Yep, it's no surprise the SL65 can't hang on the track, 120hp advantage or not. That thing has got to weigh well over 4,000lbs.
exactly, that thing is so heavy it's not even funny. car and driver has it at 4350lb
Old 05-27-14, 04:06 PM
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Originally Posted by rominl
exactly, that thing is so heavy it's not even funny. car and driver has it at 4350lb
Nonetheless, it is a black series, which is supposed to be an extreme hardcore version of AMG complete with racing slick compound tires. Since it is the most expensive halo Mercedes costing almost the same as the LFA, I believe they chose this car for that reason to pit against the LFA.

But, yeah an SLS AMG Black series would be able to put up a very good fight against the LFA. Although, the specs suggest an LFA Nurburgring Edition is more of an apples to apples comparison.
Old 05-28-14, 07:45 PM
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The LFA is a 3300lb. carbon chassis supercar. The SL65 BLACK is a 4000+lb. GT with a lot of power. No comparison imo.
Old 07-24-16, 12:46 AM
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Update: The article now online with pictures

Translated from Norwegian using google

http://www.dinside.no/935646/lexus-l...nz-sl-65-amg#/

Video:

http://dbtv.no/4121189154001#Disse_b...som_er_raskest









Lexus LFA against Mercedes-Benz SL 65 AMG 41 comments
Published: Saturday 16th January 2016 at 14:00

We simply took the two most expensive and little more than most supercars we could find, put Fredric Aasbø and Henning Solberg at the wheel, closed Vålerbanen for a day, and put the best and simplest question: Who is the fastest?

There are many large settlement in automotive history. Some examples: Martin Schanche against Kenneth Hansen in rallycross golden age in the '90s. James Hunt and Niki Lauda in Formula 1 in the 70s. And not least, Alain Prost towards Ayrton Senna in the same branch 20 years later.

All these settlements have one thing in common: rivals are as strong contradictions in relation to each other. Martin Schanche hysterical driving and stalling temperament against Swedish Kenneth Hansen subdued and systematic disposition.

Playboy James Hunt against nerd Niki Lauda. Folk hero Ayrton Senna against the "bad guy" Alain Prost. But it is not only the personality of the drivers that come into play when the temperature on the field increases. The gear they use is just as important.

History's best example of this is the settlement between Ford GT40 and Ferrari 330 P4 during the Le Mans 24 hour race in 1966. GT40-one simple but brutal 7-liter V8 stood in stark contrast to Ferrari complicated and delicate V12.

Ultimately it was the Americans simplicity triumphing over the Italians' finesse. But if there are major differences you're looking for, you need to look to England and the British Saloon Car Championship from 1965 onwards, where tiny Mini coOpera fought against enormous Mustangs.

Doubled the value of two years

But what will be the outcome if we put one of the new motorsport heroes, Fredric Aasbø, up against one of the most established and experienced drivers - Henning Solberg? What if we put those behind the wheel of either extreme supercar and they ask for to set the best time around a real racing track? When we begin to talk!

In Norway, general shortage of supercars, for obvious reasons. But they do exist. One of the supreste supercars that rolls around on Norwegian boards, is a stunning, dark gray Lexus LFA. Nypris in 2012 was 4.3 million.

Now it worth more. Much more. The Norwegian owner, one of Europe's largest Lexus enthusiasts, has reportedly turned down an offer of NOK 9 million. He digger this car, in other words.

So how he reacts if we call and ask if we can borrow this unique and almost priceless super car to drive on the track with Fredric Aasbø behind the wheel in a duel against Henning Solberg? We kept on losing the phone down when he answered "yes, why not"!

His thought is as simple as it is ingenious: If Lexus has spent so much money on building a super solid banebil as LFA undoubtedly is, it must then endure to be used then as well. So then Fredric vehicle box. But what about Henning Solberg - he has a dugandes utfordrerbil at hand? We take a phone to Spydeberg express ...

- But I can always ask in a Mercedes SL 65 AMG Black Series! Does not fit it, then?

Again we keep on losing the phone. Well, yeah, it should go smoothly there, Henning!

And presto, it was failed a fact. Whippersnapper against veteran. Operating guy to rally ace. Japan against Germany. V10 without breathing assistance towards the twin-turbo V12. Effective lightweight against brutal muscle wagon.

The day is coming.

Weather forecasts are checked, double checked and triple checked throughout the week. Now we're on Vålerbanen without a single cloud in the sky.

The asphalt has completely optimal temperature. Bane crew has swept away the winter smårusk, we have the entire path totaling 3.2 kilometers available. It does not get better than this.


Drifting aces against rally king

These are cars that are worth several million each. They should be run as hard as it gets on the street wheels. Here it is about honor and prestige, with a good dose of risk on top.
Henning Solberg has over 20 years of experience behind the wheel of rally and rallycross cars of over a recommended format.


He took five rally championship gold in a row between 1999 and 2003, before he continued his career in the WRC circus. With 31 leg owners and 6 podiums he has delivered strong throughout the initiative.

Fredric Aasbø is only 29 years old but has already managed to distinguish itself among the world leaders in its fastest-growing motorsport, drifting. Living bread has almost 1,000 horses on the rear wheels.
But he has what it takes to cope with fox Henning Solberg?

What is most important: Weight or effect?

Both arrive in their own car and they set off in the long puller to measure forces. Henning has a clear advantage: He drives his own car. He owns namely the wild Mercedes. That means he also knows driveability and out. Or?

- I've hardly driven a meter of it! I have not had time, says Henning.

All right, then ask the perhaps not so different after all.

Fredric LFA has "only" 560 horses, and no turbo that helps the bottom of the register. Hennings SL has however all 670 horses, with two turbos and outrageous 1000 Newton meters to spend.

On the other side roads Mercedes considerably more, in fact nearly 400 kilograms. Otherwise the figures are very similar: 0-100 goes away on 3.7 for the Japanese fans and 3.8 for German, top speed is 325 and respective 320 km / h. It looks like LFA-one set with a slight advantage, but it is worth noting that the outrageous moment in the Mercedes gives far better between acceleration - which is very essential in this field.

One can talk about statistics and numbers for ages, but there is only one way to find the answer here: We give Fredric clear signal - he responds by asking the car on the start line.

Motor noise that matches the performance

The dark gray beast stands murmuring in front of me. When there is talk of presence, there is little that matches the Lexus LFA.

Here there is not much off the shelf. Every detail is designed with an artistic approach and a close manic efficient. Material use, weight distribution, aerodynamics, mechanics: Everything is built from the ground up with one goal - to create virtually Autofil perfection.

But Lexus LFA can not be experienced fully until the engine sing its hilarious song on open damper. That's exactly what we should do now. We reset the clock and give Fredric characters: Wood two, one - go!

Lexus blast off without drama. The rear wheels buttons and strike fast, but can quickly attach into the first turn. Out on the right puller sets V10 engine into its otherworldly howl. This is undoubtedly one of the motoring world's best audiovisual experiences.

LFA-a disappearing out of sight. After a few seconds it pops up again, now on the other side of the path, on a long pull. Fredric hammering the brake and threw the car into a perpendicular left turn. The chassis looks incredibly stable out. But what's this? In parallel with the engine noise of the LFA a mere few hundred meters sounds another similar sound, much farther away.

Then it dawns on us what it is - it is the echo of acceleration on the long side! The sound has gone to Braskereidfoss back and tunes still as strong and loud, over ten seconds. Absolutely crazy!

Extreme screen bredding

Then we see the dark car coming out of turn against last long pull. Just a few hundred meters and a sharp left-right chicane again. For an acceleration! LFA-en sits well down on the hips while the chasing away of tensioning.

The dishes up slightly just before Fredric throwing the car into the chicane with tremendous speed. So he's on the gas again and the car hurtling towards me. Ooooooooog ... THERE! Oh dang wad for a pace! One would not believe Fredric only had a few heating laps before the official timing.

- What was the time? Fredric rolls away with the window down. The cooling fans work at full speed on Lexus, it is barely one hears what he says. But currently he does not. It we do not intend to disclose before Henning has run his lap. We have to create some excitement here! As if more excitement strictly necessary ...

Henning takes place at the starting line and traps the huge V12 engine. We believe honestly that huge twin-turbo engine would have been placed on a Euro pallet. It is massive!

But is it enough to compensate for the weight? And, a question that none of us dare to ask directly to Henning: Is he man enough to deal with 1000 Nm on this challenging path?

He sees at least clear out as he sits inside the stalling German sports car. SL 65 AMG Black Series is easy to recognize with the powerful screen bank no.

The car measures 196 cm between the wheels, but looks far wider thanks to the low, flat contours. But enough about the appearance - Time to see what the car is performing with one of Norway's most experienced rally drivers behind the wheel. He gets drawn. Three, two, one, GO!

Click to see large image click to see large image click to see large image
See all 6 photos


Seemingly identical pace

The tires are surprisingly enough grip. Henning always turn off the ESP system when he runs, but here it may seem that the electronics still assists heading into the first turn. Based on long puller heard hardly any engine noise, most turbo the wheezing.

I'm sorry to say it, but this sounds more like a Porsche 911 Turbo than a V12 monster.

Snail houses must take some of the blame for the lack of engine noise, they break up airflow and therefore also the sound waves in the exhaust. But the car is efficient, there is no doubt!

The white country road rocket glimpsed in a durabelig pace over gently sloping hills on the opposite side of the court. We note that Henning brakes about as late as Fredric into 90-degree bend, and the chassis does not especially overloaded as it rolled into web tightest curve.

There are plenty of race part 3, Våler Man's latest addition with a series of quick turns, that the differences between the LFA-one and SL-one becomes most visible.

It's hard to follow the car with his eyes. Suddenly it up, easy sideways out of the last turn toward long puller. It screams in tires and front lifts off easily, while it chases away the last hundred meters into the chicane.

Then plunging bonnet down against the pavement, but only a microsecond before Henning napper that huge cart from side to side through the fast turn combination. One would think the car weighed about half from the maneuver to judge! Power package comes hissing in a durabelig gallop, and THERE! We have a result ...

David against Goliath?

The men stand by each car. The tires are still tough as heat eraser and it is ticking and crackles under panserne. Although they try to hide it, it's fairly easy to see that they are excited about the results.

Curious at times, boys?

Fredric LFA: 1: 44.48! It is extremely fast, especially considering that the car has regular street tires.

What about Cindy? He says that he was up to over 230 km / h on a pair of long moves. There are wild speeds considering how short the stretches actually. But time? 1: 50.96 - more than six seconds behind Fredric!

So what have we learned today? Is operating rising Fredric better than rally driver Henning in this discipline? Unfortunately the answer is not so simple. Here we have to blame the cars: Lexus LFA remains a perfect defensive weapon.

Ideal weight distribution, optimum power transmission and low specific gravity overcame brutal effort Vålerbanen.

Japanese finesse trumps German muscle. Turbo Fed torque monster had to succumb for a V10 symphony without breathing assistance. It's beautiful. It is almost poetic. One thing is certain: Both cars are completely raw. But Lexus LFA is chopped rawer.




Last edited by 05RollaXRS; 08-02-16 at 03:50 PM.
Old 07-24-16, 07:35 AM
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Entertaining to read, but not really surprising. Even if it's a Black Series, it's still an SL at heart. Power doesn't get you through the turns quicker so the HP advantage is minimized for the SL.
Old 07-24-16, 02:45 PM
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Originally Posted by GSteg
Entertaining to read, but not really surprising. Even if it's a Black Series, it's still an SL at heart. Power doesn't get you through the turns quicker so the HP advantage is minimized for the SL.
It was heavily reworked. If there is any issue with it, it is the weight of around 4300 lbs, which as the article says works heavily against it. Still, Mercedes went through extensive changes in the car. In the press release, they compared it to a DTM racing car. The whole body was made of carbon fiber and aggressive weight reduction was done on it, the suspension was reworked etc. Still, it is too heavy (as heavy as an E63 AMG or M5), which works against it both in a straight line or around the turns.

It looks bada**, though.







Press Release

Sensational appearance, unique performance data, with light-weight design throughout and total exclusivity – that’s the new Mercedes-Benz SL 65 AMG Black Series. This high-performance coupe is a motorsport engineering thoroughbred, opening up new drive dynamic vistas to sports car enthusiasts. The AMG 6.0 litre V12 biturbo engine, with a maximum output of 493 kW/670 hp and 1000 Newtonmetres of torque, guarantees super sports car level performance. The powerful two-seater was developed in the AMG PERFORMANCE STUDIO and represents the continuation of the highly successful Black Series strategy pursued by AMG, the Mercedes-Benz Cars Performance brand.

Broad, muscular and ready to pounce – that’s the new Mercedes-Benz SL 65 AMG Black Series. Even when stationary, the coup’s superlative dynamism can arouse great passions. The strikingly broad mudguards, the retractable rear spoiler and the rear apron with diffuser fins point unmistakably to its motorsport origins, part of the Mercedes-AMG corporate philosophy for more than 40 years. One glance at the new SL 65 AMG Black Series and you are reminded of the successful AMG racing sports cars like the present DTM C-Class or the 1997 CLK-GTR from the FIA-GT series.



Wide cooling air apertures in the front apron and the bonnet are the clearest indication of the massive power of this AMG twelve-cylinder, biturbocharged engine. From its 5980 cubic capacity, the AMG V12’s engine generates a maximum power of 493 kW/670 hp at 5400 rpm and an electronically limited torque of 1000 Newtonmetres between 2200 and 4200 rpm. Without a limiter, the AMG 6.0 litre V12 biturbo engine, which is hand-built in the AMG engine factory in accordance with the “one man one engine” philosophy, would achieve a maximum torque of 1200 Newtonmetres. Compared with the basis power pack in the 450 kW/612 hp SL 65 AMG, new turbochargers were developed for the twelve-cylinder SL 65 AMG Black Series engine. The turbochargers’ spiral cross-section, now twelve per cent larger, and the optimised wastegate ducts permit increased air throughput and an even more impressive display of power in all engine speed ranges. The modified intake air ducting results in an even more spontaneous response. The new design for the AMG sports exhaust gas system’s rear silencers reduce the exhaust gas backpressure and help increase the power output. The acoustic side effect of this is to produce a distinctive twelve-cylinder sound, typically evocative of AMG engine tuning, from the two trapezoidal tail pipes. The low-temperature charge air cooler, now 30 per cent more powerful, and the optimised water cooling system guarantee not only that the power generated under extreme dynamic driving conditions is exploited to the maximum but also the greatest possible fatigue strength at high outside temperatures.

Unique performance thanks to attractive power-to-weight ratio

The extraordinary engine specifications, which make the SL 65 AMG Black Series the most powerful AMG model yet, help to produce unique performance data: from a standing start, it takes just 3.8 seconds to reach 100 km/h; 200 km/h is attained after 11.0 seconds. The top speed is 320 km/h (electronically limited).

* electronically limited.

Equally responsible for its excellent dynamics is the attractive power-to-weight ratio of only 2.79 hp/kg, resulting from the comparably low unladen weight of 1870 kilograms, according to EU standard measurement. This makes the SL 65 AMG Black Series some 250 kilograms lighter than the SL 65 AMG – a respectable weight saving due specifically to the use of lightweight construction. Numerous bodywork components are made of high-strength and particularly light carbon fibre composites (CFRP), a well-proven motorsports technology. The 14 centimetre wider front mudguard, the front apron with the visible carbon front splitter, the bonnet and the boot lid are all made from CFRP. Large apertures in the bonnet ensure that excess heat is reliably ducted away from the engine. “V12 Biturbo lettering on the front mudguards gives an indication of the engine’s power.

New CFRP roof with integral roll-over bar

The whole CFRP roof shell has taken on a completely new design. Not only does it now have an integral roll-over bar but, by no longer having the typical SL vario roof installed, the roof line has a significantly flatter profile. This is also evident from a glance at the bigger rear window, now placed at a less sharp angle to the boot lid. The CFRP rear spoiler, concealed in the boot lid, automatically extends twelve centimetres at 120 km/h, effectively reducing the lift force on the rear axle at high speeds. Looked at from the rear, the conspicuous feature is the new rear apron with its visible carbon diffuser. Concealed within it is the active cooling system for the rear axle locking differential.
New, weight-optimised, twin-spoke design, AMG forged alloy wheels – 19 inch wheels at the front and 20 inch at the rear – impressively occupy the whole of each wheel housing. With their black paintwork, high-sheen surface and matt finish, they lend a note of extravagance to the side profile.

Power transmission with double-declutch function and four transmission modes

Matching the outstanding performance potential and the versatile drive dynamics, the SL 65 AMG Black Series also displays its power pack and suspension at their best. An AMG SPEEDSHIFT PLUS five-speed automatic gearbox transmits power to the rear wheels. There is a choice between four transmission modes: “C”, “S”, “M1” and “M2” which has gearshift times 25 per cent quicker than the “M1” mode. The torque converter’s lockup clutch guarantees extremely direct gearshifting in all driving situations right from first gear. The automatic double-declutch function not only makes shifting down a more pleasurable task, it also ensures that the load alteration effect is reduced.

AMG adjustable coil spring sports suspension and 3-stage ESP

As for the suspension, the AMG experts have put their trust in a new design. The AMG sports suspension has been designed on adjustable coil spring lines; this well-proven motorsports solution allows the shock absorbers’ rebound and compression stages, the ride height, wheel alignment and camber to be adjusted. This means that the driver can adjust the suspension to suit his own personal specifications when driving on racing circuits. The spring links, camber struts and pull/push rods on both axles are new developments and each axle has a weight-optimised aluminium wheel carrier. Compared with the standard SL 65 AMG, the Black Series front axle track width is 97 millimetres wider and the rear axle track width 85 millimetres wider. The new front axle kinematics produce an 8 per cent more direct steering ratio; and the completely re-designed elastokinematics ensure noticeably greater steering precision. A multiple-disc limited-slip differential on the rear axle with a 40 per cent locking effect guarantees optimum traction.

The 3-stage sports function ESP is a by-word for maximum driving pleasure and outstanding drive dynamics: The driver can choose between “ESP ON”, “ESP SPORT” and “ESP OFF” by pressing the ESP button; the AMG instrument cluster will then show whichever mode is currently activated on the central display.

Sports tyres and composite disc brakes for best performance

The wheel-tyre combination chosen is also responsible for a superb performance by the SL 65 AMG Black Series on racing circuits. 265/35 R 19 tyres are fitted to 9.5 inch wide AMG light-alloy wheels on the front axle. The impressive format for the rear axle is AMG 11.5 x 20 light-alloy wheels with 325/30 R 20 tyres. Dunlop, DTM’s motorsports partner, supplies the “Sport Maxx GT” sport tyres which provide particularly good grip and permit astonishing cornering speeds.

The large AMG high-performance brake system can be seen through the filigree structure of the AMG twin-spoke light-alloy wheels. Internally ventilated and perforated disc brakes engineered in particularly strong composite materials are employed all round. On the front axle, braking is undertaken by six-piston fixed callipers and 390 x 36 mm discs; on the rear axles, this task is carried out by four-piston fixed callipers and 360 x 26 mm discs.

A functional and lovingly designed interior

Nappa leather, Alcantara and carbon: the interior of the SL 65 AMG Black Series provides the perfect ambience to set the pulses of sports car enthusiasts racing. The interior, entirely in black, exudes the functional atmosphere of a genuine racing sports car while the lovingly designed details have the power to captivate.

Newly developed AMG sports bucket seats made of CFRP (ECE version only) provide perfect lateral support for the occupants when taking bends fast. The seats without side airbags are upholstered in fine-grained nappa leather and Alcantara with embossed AMG lettering in the head restraints. With its 15 millimetre smaller diameter, flattened lower profile and with both sides perforated for easier grip, the AMG Performance steering wheel provides maximum vehicle control. The silver-coloured aluminium shift paddles allow manual gear selection.

Additional highlights in the centre console are the high-quality carbon trim parts, the gleaming matt start/stop button, the new selector lever with carbon inlay and the AMG logo with “Black Series” lettering. Matching features are the carbon door centre panels with embossed AMG lettering, together with the roof lining and the A and C-pillars upholstered in Alcantara anthracite.

The AMG instrument cluster is a completely new design. The black speedometer with its scale reading up to 360 km/h has also been re-designed; and the same is true of the white rev counter which has four integral LEDs to advise the driver of the optimum gearshift points.

Exhaustive development in all the world’s climate zones

Exhaustive development and testing of the SL 65 AMG Black Series began in 2006. AMG engineers and technicians test drove ten prototypes and experimental vehicles in all the world’s climate zones. Whether it was fast circuits of the Nrburgring, high-speed test driving in Nardo (Italy), wind tunnel testing, intensive test driving in summer heat or the cold of the Arctic or actual crash testing the new AMG high-performance coup had to prove its production readiness under all conditions. In total, the SL 65 AMG Black Series was test-driven for roughly 30,000 kilometres on various circuits, 15,000 kilometres of which were on the Nrburgring north loop alone, acknowledged to be the world’s most difficult race circuit.




Old 07-24-16, 07:17 PM
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Rolla you are da man. LFA rules!!!! This car is simply incredible to drive. Everyday I drive it brings another huge smile to my face. Although I am now realizing a radar detector is a must.
Old 07-24-16, 08:29 PM
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My Brother in law who is a big AMG person, and he happens to have the SL65BS... and I test drove it several times, uummm,

The AMG has no match to the LFA, but yet, both the LFA and the AMG SL65BS are very different cars...

A.
Old 07-24-16, 08:31 PM
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Same here....

A.

Originally Posted by SUNLINE
Rolla you are da man. LFA rules!!!! This car is simply incredible to drive. Everyday I drive it brings another huge smile to my face. Although I am now realizing a radar detector is a must.
Old 07-24-16, 08:31 PM
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Originally Posted by SUNLINE
Rolla you are da man. LFA rules!!!! This car is simply incredible to drive. Everyday I drive it brings another huge smile to my face. Although I am now realizing a radar detector is a must.
You are welcome. Be sure to check often. Always on the hunt for something new for the LFA in the quest to keep this forum alive.
Old 07-24-16, 08:39 PM
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There you go...

Please do so... We would much love to keep this forum to our LFA life to share for all our friends here...

After chatting with our friends here...

I feel the #32 LFA is not only the Lexus Press Car and or my own... Many of us here have a little piece of memories in it even Jay Leno and Paul Walker and more...

It's our car...!!!

We surely to keep it alive. It's our baby...

A.

Originally Posted by 05RollaXRS
You are welcome. Be sure to check often. Always on the hunt for something new for the LFA in the quest to keep this forum alive.
Old 07-24-16, 09:07 PM
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For sure. Thanks.

I just recently got an edition of German comparo of Lexus LFA vs Lamborghini Gallardo LP560-4 vs Viper SRT-10 that is in German (by AutoBild). Will try to get it scanned and translated to English in the next week or so. Seems like a subjective comparo rather than objective.

Regarding the LFA #032, that is true it has been used extensively in the press including 180 mph speeds on a speedway, the hundreds, if not thousands of laps done by Scott Pruett, Justin Bell etc. in it over the course of 3+ years. Definitely, lots of memories tied to it.


Originally Posted by 9KV10
There you go...

Please do so... We would much love to keep this forum to our LFA life to share for all our friends here...

After chatting with our friends here...

I feel the #32 LFA is not only the Lexus Press Car and or my own... Many of us here have a little piece of memories in it even Jay Leno and Paul Walker and more...

It's our car...!!!

We surely to keep it alive. It's our baby...

A.


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