Ice350

iTrader: (1)

I don't care what they do. I'm only saying success is defined by sales. Period. Sell it cheaper and it will sell like hotcakes. This isn't an Audi R8. Don't care to compare. If Lexus doesn't care if they sell the 500 planned, no sweat from my brow. It just won't be considered successful by the automotive cognesenti (sp). None of this is about making sense. I'm sure Lexus wants the car to be considered successful. They have to sell more for that to happen.

07grIS350

There is no certainty that at Lexus would sell thousands of LFAs at 200K apiece. The closest example would be the GT-R spec v , and I think Nissan did not even try to bring this model to North America. How many people here would actually buy a 200K plus supercar? How many people here would actually buy a 200K plus supercar from Japan?
The GT-R at 90K is not exactly a sales success in spite of the fact that it can dominate the performance the 911 and most exotics on the market today. The NSX went away quietly after many years of slow sales.
Lamboghini only managed to sell around 70 SVs in North America, while you thought 100 plus LFAs sold here not successful?

Gojirra99

I think the point is, you can get significantly more owners who can enjoy and appreciate Lexus's supercar and spread the word on how it feels like a bona fide exotic car , not just one that can put up good performance numbers.
Right now, there are just too many people talking about the car who have never even driven it, or driven it extensively, while there are precious few owners who can share their real ownership experience with others.

Oh and Lexus claim they want the car to be seen driven around as much as possible, not collecting dust in the garage, but with just 500(even if they sell all of them), they are almost guaranteed to be rarely seen driven around in public nomatter what ... that's good exposure for Lexus I am sure .....

07grIS350

I don't work for Lexus so I can't say for certain how the LFA program is working out for them. However, I am sure their experts have considered all possibilities before deciding on the current path. Toyota did this once with the 2000 GT, so maybe there is going to be a trend here?. At least for the US, a number of LFAs are bought by dealer owners, so I am sure they will be displayed for all to see.
I can only speculate that the 500 LFAs would serve as Lexus PR's talking points when their future F cars arrived. I believe this is where the public opinion will matter a lot more because it would directly affect Lexus's bottom line.

ISF4life

iTrader: (30)

Didnt lexus says they only made even the amount of $$$ selling LFA at 375k ? not a penny gain ? all $$$ went into the search and engineering in 10 yrs for making LFA ? so i dont see the LFA going any cheaper than 375 to 400k ?

gengar

I've complained about this before. I'm not a fan of limited sales runs. If the cars can be sold, they should be. Clearly however, Lexus would rather have more LFAs in the US than in other markets, even if it takes longer to sell them. This is perhaps one of the weaknesses of having a car that isn't meant to make money for the company through direct sales - because the financials are irrelevant anyway, there isn't the same incentive to sell units.


I still disagree that the leasing had any impact on interest. Anyone who wanted the car would have bought it, lease or not - after all, the RFOR still exists today even though the lease no longer does. The main complaint from buyers (like myself) with regards to the lease was the need to pay off LFS and this is why they decided to kill the lease requirement. Even then, the additional payment under the lease structure was pretty nominal compared to the $400k+ OTD on the car. I would have bought the car either way, but I'm glad Lexus responded positively to buyers.


If Lexus sold the LFA then Jeremy Clarkson would have shown disdain for it for being three times the cost of a GT-R. Nothing would have changed. It's far too simplistic to just say that lowering the cost increases demand and this should be the goal of manufacturers since sales figures determine "success". That's not the metric for most products or cars. And it's certainly not the metric for this car.

No one has bought an LFA?

Ice350

iTrader: (1)

Guys, I know the LFA wouldn't be an automatic success if the price was lower but it's not selling well at 400K so that means other tactics need to be considered.
They could lower the price.
They could increase the allotment.
They could go on a marketing blitz.
They could offer incentives.
They could raffle a couple of them (I want a ticket to that, maybe 10 tickets).
They could end production to see if demand improves.

Since Lexus hasn't done anything they must be okay with how it's going. But I still say if they don't sell 500 cars, it will be called a failure. Maybe Lexus doesn't care about that. I would. I wouldn't want failure to be attached to my brand if I were them.

G Star

iTrader: (2)

Proof of failure of sales?



On January 7, 2011 the Lexus LFA was being showcased Good Day L.A. where Mike Caudill (NADA Guidelines spokesperson) claimed there were only 20 left out of 170 sales units in the U.S. Around that time, several reps claimed numbers hovering around 20 as well. This was almost five months ago.

http://www.myfoxla.com/dpp/good_day_...-gdla-20110107

What we also know is that Lexus will not budge to move sales from U.S. to other parts of the world where there is higher demand.


So at what percentage of units sold before production ends, is it considered a failure?

05RollaXRS

Excellent post. That is exactly what I was looking for. An official confirmation that only 20 LFAs remain to be sold (that was January).

G Star

iTrader: (2)

Well let's not call it an official confirmation as it isn't and some members will get riled up about that fact.

But we do know that the information and LFA most likely (think about it) was delivered by Lexus or ToMoCo so that the source of the information is rather relevant and as close to official as we could've gotten at that time (1/11).

I'm willing to bet that Toyota/Lexus is most confident that all 500 LFA's will be spoken for by the time production ends. Is that considered a success or failure? Is technology and material r&d trickling down to new Lexus vehicles considered a success or failure? Is F brand recognition considered a success or failure?

Rolla recently posted this:


Comments include:
Hoooooooooooooly COW!
I'm sold, I'm never going to slam the LFA again
It's like a dream
Anybody who hates on this car, they...they just don't know

So is this sort of complete 180 degree change in opinion a success or a failure?

I don't understand why anybody would say that nobody is getting seat time in the LFA, if average Corvette forum members can drive it, depending on location and scheduling, anybody can. Just sign up...

flipside909

Not to make excuses...and I know the affluent are not affected by the economic downturn we've been facing, but people this day and age are more concerned about getting the best bang for the buck. Sure the LFA is not the best priced super car money can buy at this very moment, but I do know for a fact its a car that will never be understood by the average person...simply because they're just looking at what its worth on paper. Unless they experience the car first hand...which only a handful of us here on CL have done...the whole world will really never know the true value of an LFA.

flipside909

Not to give any credit to that article...but if you flip the coin, there are plenty who never have driven the LFA...but are on the extreme opposite end of the opinion spectrum. There are those that hypothesize conclusions based on what they have only read and seen whats been published on the internet...both pro and con.

Lexus to date has not made ANY official statement of how many LFA's actually remain. That includes that video from Fox 11 here in LA...to date. So saying its an official confirmation is completely not a fact.

motohide

There are thousands of reasons why LFA can be criticized, especially when it is a car that is priced in the range where almost all people in the world are excluded from ownership. And without trying to be elitist or something similar to that extent, from those members that did get a chance to fling this special vehicle around a track, the LFA is a very unique vehicle, and any of them will probabaly have 1000 reasons to be excited and to justify the imaginary cost of $375,000 bucks.

But I guess what I am resorting to say at this point, after writing numerous articles and comments about the LFA, that the experience of connecting with the LFA, like a great photo or painting, is worth more than any writings, even a book or two. Like paintings by Rafael, DaVinci, and other masters, it will be something to discuss for years to come. The LFA will certainly be a center of controversy, a mark in history, a design exercise, a corporate experiment and statement, a production method goal seeking project, and for many other reasons... It is perhaps the greatest gift from Toyota for us to be "interested" in discussing, and to fuel the automotive enthusiasts in many directions and topics.

Is a painting worth 45 million dollars? Some think so... other certainly will not. Same thing, and Toyota has it's own reasons, buyer another, and the rest of us, commentators in the vast internet, yet another.

Long live the LFA and the Lexus F product concept...

An analogy if I may:

For NASA, since 1958, we as Americans so far, spent $471,230,000,000 (that's 471 billion dollars) to date. For what? To go watch the big sky, and to go to a few places out there and put things in orbit to watch more sky. It sounds silly if we only look at the programs on the surface and simple deeds as such. However what we gained and fostered from knowledge of doing so, have certainly changed the world for us to be convinced it was worth it. By finding out how to put orbiting satellites, we have GPS, cellular, radio, and other massive data networks, and a million other benefits since we started exploration.

I feel that the LFA is similar, in that it is not a product to define its own value as single product for the rest of us. WE need to place a value on what Toyota has achieved and will gain in terms of whatever comes forth from the knowledge in the product concept, development, production, and marketing of such cars, all of which are not your average task of a normal Toyota product line. Likely, we will gain many advanced technologies trickling down in future cars which we will be able to afford.

motohide

For the sake of numeral literacy and to bring home some numbers to what we all can comprehend better, as most of us are guilty of not grasping numbers in dollars beyond what fits in our wallets as cash.

$375,000 is equal to:

147,058 Big Macs at my local McDonalds.
250 Average 50" LCD TV
7812 bottles of Johnny Walker Black Label Scotch Whiskey
6250 Concert Tickets to Lady Gaga concert
83,300 gallons of gasoline in California
2.5 million minutes of talk time on PrePaid Cellular phone.
1 Lexus LFA.

It is also 10,750 inches of $1 bills stacked (that's 297 yard stack of $1 bills)

Also for reference, NASA spending of $471,230 million dollars stacked...equals... 31,902 mile stack of $100 bills!

Just to make a point at what its all worth to us.

TommyJames

This has always been a price/value issue. To call it anything else is just fodder. The LFA is an amazing car if you VALUE the components that are amazing. If you don't you're not going to be willing to pay the price, no matter how it's promoted. It's been written about over and over again that most think the car is priced about $100k over its value, however all that said, there are still buyers buying it and they obviously think it's a worthy value. If they sell out at $375k, then great, they proved the market exists. It may not be on the ramp they would have preferred, but that's a case of connecting the right buyers with the car. I can go down a long list of cars that were not hot sellers that had impressive numbers, but were still not considered the right value for the market.

It's a cool car, but for reasons that the market may not care about. I love radar cruise, but Lexus told me that customers often don't see the value and therefore fewer cars come with it.