Lexus LFA@ BMW M Fest
05-06-11, 02:49 PM
#32
Moderator: LFA, Clubhouse
The M1 is a fantastic car, a real collector's item - not least because it's the only production mid-engined BMW ever, and also a homologation car (although I guess it could be said the LFA is incredibly special as a reverse-homologation car during development!). Of course, many supercars of that time were also homologation cars, like the 512. The M1 doesn't fetch 2000GT prices, but it's not as old and had a bigger production run, so it's value definitely helps to show how special people consider it to be.
275ish hp from a 3.5 in-line 6 is amazing for the the time. Of course, the 308 made probably close to that from a smaller 3L V8 (rather higher specific displacement) and was lighter, and the 512 at the time was making an insane amount of hp but of course a much bigger engine and twice the cylinders. It was an admirable effort for sure and definitely getting close to the Ferrari/Porsche/AM offerings of the time - probably on a purely performance basis the argument could be made it was approaching the benchmarks of the time, but I don't really think it's that comparable to the LFA and what Lexus has achieved with it relative to the current industry.
As a side note - to be honest, the M1 is perhaps just as important to Lamborghini's history as BMW's, given that BMW approached Lamborghini to design the M1 and it was essentially entirely designed by Lamborghini with assistance from Dallara on the suspension. (Maybe some others in there - I'd have to re-read up on the history.) When Lamborghini presented BMW with their design, BMW wanted to do it, but Lamborghini wanted more money than BMW was willing to give. Two of the lead Lamborghini engineers wound up defecting and started their own company to contract with BMW to do the M1. This time period was probably the worst in Lamborghini history and it's amazing the company is still around today given its financial situation at the time - and if it didn't exist today, we could probably be justified in pointing fingers at BMW and its decision to contract with the defecting engineers as one of the reasons why.
Naturally, most BMW fans of the current day completely gloss over the fact that the M1 was designed from the ground up by Lamborghini. I dunno, that makes it more special in my mind.
275ish hp from a 3.5 in-line 6 is amazing for the the time. Of course, the 308 made probably close to that from a smaller 3L V8 (rather higher specific displacement) and was lighter, and the 512 at the time was making an insane amount of hp but of course a much bigger engine and twice the cylinders. It was an admirable effort for sure and definitely getting close to the Ferrari/Porsche/AM offerings of the time - probably on a purely performance basis the argument could be made it was approaching the benchmarks of the time, but I don't really think it's that comparable to the LFA and what Lexus has achieved with it relative to the current industry.
As a side note - to be honest, the M1 is perhaps just as important to Lamborghini's history as BMW's, given that BMW approached Lamborghini to design the M1 and it was essentially entirely designed by Lamborghini with assistance from Dallara on the suspension. (Maybe some others in there - I'd have to re-read up on the history.) When Lamborghini presented BMW with their design, BMW wanted to do it, but Lamborghini wanted more money than BMW was willing to give. Two of the lead Lamborghini engineers wound up defecting and started their own company to contract with BMW to do the M1. This time period was probably the worst in Lamborghini history and it's amazing the company is still around today given its financial situation at the time - and if it didn't exist today, we could probably be justified in pointing fingers at BMW and its decision to contract with the defecting engineers as one of the reasons why.
Naturally, most BMW fans of the current day completely gloss over the fact that the M1 was designed from the ground up by Lamborghini. I dunno, that makes it more special in my mind.
05-06-11, 02:53 PM
#34
Moderator: LFA, Clubhouse
It's Lexus USA's production #32. It made a brief stop at Lexus of Henderson the day before and I was in Vegas so I stopped by the dealership to check it out. (I was invited by Lexus to MFest, but my interest in attending was considerably lower for that event.) One of our CL members (who I had chatted with before on here, but never actually met before that day) got to drive it then - surprised he hasn't posted about it yet! 
05-06-11, 03:01 PM
#35
Lexus Test Driver
Thread Starter
1M = 1-series M coupe with the 335 HP 135 engine and M3 bits and pieces (differential, suspension etc.)
M1 = Well you have been talking about it already.
M1 = Well you have been talking about it already.
What M8? That as not a production car. 850 CSI was but it was not an "M" model
I wish someone would just one day call the gotdamn cars the BMW I have a Name or the Lexus MY NAME IS
05-06-11, 03:10 PM
#36
Guest
Posts: n/a
The M1 is a fantastic car, a real collector's item - not least because it's the only production mid-engined BMW ever, and also a homologation car (although I guess it could be said the LFA is incredibly special as a reverse-homologation car during development!). Of course, many supercars of that time were also homologation cars, like the 512. The M1 doesn't fetch 2000GT prices, but it's not as old and had a bigger production run, so it's value definitely helps to show how special people consider it to be.
275ish hp from a 3.5 in-line 6 is amazing for the the time. Of course, the 308 made probably close to that from a smaller 3L V8 (rather higher specific displacement) and was lighter, and the 512 at the time was making an insane amount of hp but of course a much bigger engine and twice the cylinders. It was an admirable effort for sure and definitely getting close to the Ferrari/Porsche/AM offerings of the time - probably on a purely performance basis the argument could be made it was approaching the benchmarks of the time, but I don't really think it's that comparable to the LFA and what Lexus has achieved with it relative to the current industry.
As a side note - to be honest, the M1 is perhaps just as important to Lamborghini's history as BMW's, given that BMW approached Lamborghini to design the M1 and it was essentially entirely designed by Lamborghini with assistance from Dallara on the suspension. (Maybe some others in there - I'd have to re-read up on the history.) When Lamborghini presented BMW with their design, BMW wanted to do it, but Lamborghini wanted more money than BMW was willing to give. Two of the lead Lamborghini engineers wound up defecting and started their own company to contract with BMW to do the M1. This time period was probably the worst in Lamborghini history and it's amazing the company is still around today given its financial situation at the time - and if it didn't exist today, we could probably be justified in pointing fingers at BMW and its decision to contract with the defecting engineers as one of the reasons why.
Naturally, most BMW fans of the current day completely gloss over the fact that the M1 was designed from the ground up by Lamborghini. I dunno, that makes it more special in my mind.
275ish hp from a 3.5 in-line 6 is amazing for the the time. Of course, the 308 made probably close to that from a smaller 3L V8 (rather higher specific displacement) and was lighter, and the 512 at the time was making an insane amount of hp but of course a much bigger engine and twice the cylinders. It was an admirable effort for sure and definitely getting close to the Ferrari/Porsche/AM offerings of the time - probably on a purely performance basis the argument could be made it was approaching the benchmarks of the time, but I don't really think it's that comparable to the LFA and what Lexus has achieved with it relative to the current industry.
As a side note - to be honest, the M1 is perhaps just as important to Lamborghini's history as BMW's, given that BMW approached Lamborghini to design the M1 and it was essentially entirely designed by Lamborghini with assistance from Dallara on the suspension. (Maybe some others in there - I'd have to re-read up on the history.) When Lamborghini presented BMW with their design, BMW wanted to do it, but Lamborghini wanted more money than BMW was willing to give. Two of the lead Lamborghini engineers wound up defecting and started their own company to contract with BMW to do the M1. This time period was probably the worst in Lamborghini history and it's amazing the company is still around today given its financial situation at the time - and if it didn't exist today, we could probably be justified in pointing fingers at BMW and its decision to contract with the defecting engineers as one of the reasons why.
Naturally, most BMW fans of the current day completely gloss over the fact that the M1 was designed from the ground up by Lamborghini. I dunno, that makes it more special in my mind.
I see Audi with the R8, Benz with the SLS, Lexus with the LFA and wonder "Where is BMW"?
05-06-11, 03:13 PM
#37
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Couldn't agree more. My reasons for siding with The R8 and MBenz supercars are because they stand alone in their own class. Sure, the M3 and M5 are great cars, but they are based off the 3-series and 5-series platform respectively.
05-06-11, 03:34 PM
#38
Moderator: LFA, Clubhouse
Ya, this is another reason why the M1 is so special - it's not based on another platform like all the others.
05-08-11, 02:13 AM
#41
Lexus Connoisseur
Since we're talking about the M1, this was BMW's 1st halo M model. It's too bad the LFA didn't get released as the first official "F" production model. I think the "F" would have a lot more meaning and heritage if it started with LFA.
There is one thing the M1 has in common with the 1st generation Lexus GS300, they were both designed by Italdesign-Giugiaro.
05-08-11, 07:43 PM
#44
Guest
Posts: n/a
Henry, its sad when us car guys get confused with all these numeric/alpha combinations. 
BNR34, the LFA was always planned...the IS F was not, and started as a skunkworks project that got approval after the demo was presented....Thus why the IS F debuted first. The plan originally was LFA first then F line afterwards....
All I know is I would love to see "F" expand to the level of AMG....AMG everything
BNR34, the LFA was always planned...the IS F was not, and started as a skunkworks project that got approval after the demo was presented....Thus why the IS F debuted first. The plan originally was LFA first then F line afterwards....
All I know is I would love to see "F" expand to the level of AMG....AMG everything
05-08-11, 09:24 PM
#45
It used to be the rice rocket get make fun of the very long name, like the Subaru WRX STi Spec-C Type RA-R. Now Euro's car's name is getting that way too, Bentley Continental Supersports Convertible ISR Mulliner or Porsche 911 GT3 RS 4.0
I know, Toyota's plan was to release the LFA when they win in F1, but they never did. Then the economy went down the toilet. They were just dragging their feet since 2005 in deciding whether they want to put the LFA into production or not.
the IS F was not, and started as a skunkworks project that got approval after the demo was presented....Thus why the IS F debuted first. The plan originally was LFA first then F line afterwards....
All I know is I would love to see "F" expand to the level of AMG....AMG everything
All I know is I would love to see "F" expand to the level of AMG....AMG everything
F will expand to everything slowly, is just a matter of time. GS-F will exist for sure. The only question is how much they will expand it, I really hope they will follow AMG and make a LS-F, as I will eventually need a replacement for my LS430
If they don't make an offical LS-F though, I am sure a LS F-sport will happen like how they have the IS350 F-Sport or 750Li M-Sport