Lexus LFA Nürburgring Package to Debut at Geneva Auto Show (March 3rd, 2011)
02-25-11, 08:55 AM
#62
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Well I guess we will have to wait and see what the production models do. There have been a ton of excuses and theories here from tires to wing angles to weather. IMO, there won't be significant differences from the pre-production version. Here are my predictions. 0-60: in 3.4-3.5 w/LC. Quarter-mile: 11.4@126 mph. I'm still keeping in mind that it has a 'slower-than-competition' gearbox, engine in the front, stock tires, and that it's RWD.
Last edited by jpvarghese; 02-25-11 at 08:59 AM.
02-25-11, 12:32 PM
#63
Lexus Champion
0-60 might not be important to you, or anyone not racing, but getting a good launch from a standstill is important for any track car. 0-60 times are more than just a benchmark. They show that the car is capable of good acceleration. You make these times up, but the LFA has already matched most of them without LC. This is the Nurburgring edition were talking about. With 10more hp and stickier tires, using LC I don't see how it'd be just 3.5 to 60. When Lexus claims 3.6 without LC. If you look at the Ferrari 458, they've gotten times of 3.3 sometimes 3.1 to 60. Mid engine car, yeah I know, but it's not a Porsche rear engine AWD vehicle. I believe the LFA is capable of matching 3.3 to 60 with LC. From the people that drove the car, the gearbox wasn't 'slow' feeling at all. We'll see.
02-25-11, 12:47 PM
#64
Lexus Test Driver
0-60 might not be important to you, or anyone not racing, but getting a good launch from a standstill is important for any track car. 0-60 times are more than just a benchmark. They show that the car is capable of good acceleration. You make these times up, but the LFA has already matched most of them without LC. This is the Nurburgring edition were talking about. With 10more hp and stickier tires, using LC I don't see how it'd be just 3.5 to 60. When Lexus claims 3.6 without LC. If you look at the Ferrari 458, they've gotten times of 3.3 sometimes 3.1 to 60. Mid engine car, yeah I know, but it's not a Porsche rear engine AWD vehicle. I believe the LFA is capable of matching 3.3 to 60 with LC. From the people that drove the car, the gearbox wasn't 'slow' feeling at all. We'll see.
Straight line acceleration is absolutely critical in track performance (unless it is a small auto cross circuit where the speeds never exceed 70 mph) and were primarily the reason why cars like RX8 never were given much credit.
When the 450 HP E92 M3 GTS was tested around Nurburgring, SportAuto said it simply does not have the straight line acceleration to get under 7:45 despite the great driving dynamics and M-DCT transmission.
Anyway, the transmission speed is superb and nothing wrong with it. As a matter of fact on the Lamborghini forums, one LP560-4 drove the Lexus LFA and was blown away by the single-clutch shift speed in the yellow prototype saying it is much faster than the e-gear in his LP560-4.
Looks: Exterior -> Hate it. It had no presence. Interior was actually surprisingly good.
Driving: The single clutch was pretty impressive; felt better and faster than my LP560's. It was FAST. I did twitch the rear end on 2 turns. Very balanced, took me a lap to get adjusted to a RWD car. Even at high speeds, it was very stable. It really surprised me with the handling; chasis was very stiff. I was also driving the car that was not as badly beaten up. Was very impressed.
I asked for a hot lap with Scott Pruett and was told that they are doing that tomorrow for one IS-F person.
Audio: V10 sounded awesome. I was red-lining and blipping every chance i get.
Driving: The single clutch was pretty impressive; felt better and faster than my LP560's. It was FAST. I did twitch the rear end on 2 turns. Very balanced, took me a lap to get adjusted to a RWD car. Even at high speeds, it was very stable. It really surprised me with the handling; chasis was very stiff. I was also driving the car that was not as badly beaten up. Was very impressed.
I asked for a hot lap with Scott Pruett and was told that they are doing that tomorrow for one IS-F person.
Audio: V10 sounded awesome. I was red-lining and blipping every chance i get.
Last edited by 05RollaXRS; 02-25-11 at 01:02 PM.
02-25-11, 02:00 PM
#65
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0-60 is hardly the test to base a car's overall acceleration from. It tells you nothing except for how fast it gets to 60. If you want to talk about acceleration that's 'absolutely critical for track performance', compare acceleration from high speeds. This is where the LFA will shine. Get a VBOX or check out the gains in e.t. and mph from the last 1/8 mile from a drag slip if you want to compare figures.
Also, since when has people's subjective 'feeling' proof positive of anything? All that tells me is that Lexus fixed any issues the gearbox had that testers complained about. I guess we can wait and see. I'm also willing to place a friendly bet!
Also, since when has people's subjective 'feeling' proof positive of anything? All that tells me is that Lexus fixed any issues the gearbox had that testers complained about. I guess we can wait and see. I'm also willing to place a friendly bet!
Last edited by jpvarghese; 02-25-11 at 02:11 PM.
02-25-11, 02:13 PM
#66
launching has little to do with straight line acceleration, i hope TF and 05 you two realize that. launching is nothing more than how to get the best traction from a stop. in fact, on the nur track, a good 7 min track, it's hard to say how 0.2sec in launching will make huge difference. i am not saying it's not, i always think it is. but track performance is far far far more involved than just launching. again, launching doesn't equal to straight line acceleration. straight line acceleration is just that, you floor the car and hold on the wheel. if you are on a track, your car is always moving, there is no need to care about launching.
and to me, 0-60 has more power in marketing than in vehicle track performance.
i am not a pro racer, but i have raced enough. same with gengar, i believe he goes to track too, and i remember he said before he doesn't care much about lc either
and to me, 0-60 has more power in marketing than in vehicle track performance.
i am not a pro racer, but i have raced enough. same with gengar, i believe he goes to track too, and i remember he said before he doesn't care much about lc either
Last edited by rominl; 02-25-11 at 02:18 PM.
02-25-11, 02:21 PM
#67
02-25-11, 02:21 PM
#68
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launching has little to do with straight line acceleration, i hope TF and 05 you two realize that. launching is nothing more than how to get the best traction from a stop. in fact, on the nur track, a good 7 min track, it's hard to say how 0.2sec in launching will make huge difference. i am not saying it's not, i always think it is. but track performance is far far far more involved than just launching. again, launching doesn't equal to straight line acceleration. straight line acceleration is just that, you floor the car and hold on the wheel. if you are on a track, your car is always moving, there is no need to care about launching.
and to me, 0-60 has more power in marketing than in vehicle track performance.
and to me, 0-60 has more power in marketing than in vehicle track performance.
02-25-11, 02:28 PM
#69
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This is what the public direly lacks and need to know. Straight line acceleration times will never tell you how well a car will perform n a course. Course times will never tell you how a car behaves or what the driver experiences. This is why there is so much banter about this car everywhere you go. The American audience is primed strictly to be receptive towards acceleration times. They measure a car's worth with nothing else. That's why I love this car. It's great because it takes someone that understands it to truly appreciate it. I'm not the least worried that cars that cost less will demolish it or ashamed of its results, that many here are in denial about and making excuses for.
02-25-11, 02:30 PM
#70
Lexus Test Driver
True. I agree.
The discussion was not just about launching. It was about straight line acceleration in general and how quickly it can get to the highest speed possible on the back straight. For example, the video of Akira Iida around Goodwood track hitting well over 150 mph. How quickly he got up to a terminal speed of 150 mph on the straights is one of the key factors how quick he was lapping overall. Straight line acceleration is absolutely essential for running great track times unless it is a small tight auto cross circuit with maximum speeds of 70 - 75 mph where light and extremely agile, but underpowered cars like RX8, Lotus Elise, S2000 etc. could possibly beat the big HP cars like the M3, 370Z etc.
Again, the driving dynamics, handling, suspension, chassis all are important in their own right for best laps, but power delivery/acceleration is no less important either.
The discussion was not just about launching. It was about straight line acceleration in general and how quickly it can get to the highest speed possible on the back straight. For example, the video of Akira Iida around Goodwood track hitting well over 150 mph. How quickly he got up to a terminal speed of 150 mph on the straights is one of the key factors how quick he was lapping overall. Straight line acceleration is absolutely essential for running great track times unless it is a small tight auto cross circuit with maximum speeds of 70 - 75 mph where light and extremely agile, but underpowered cars like RX8, Lotus Elise, S2000 etc. could possibly beat the big HP cars like the M3, 370Z etc.
Again, the driving dynamics, handling, suspension, chassis all are important in their own right for best laps, but power delivery/acceleration is no less important either.
launching has little to do with straight line acceleration, i hope TF and 05 you two realize that. launching is nothing more than how to get the best traction from a stop. in fact, on the nur track, a good 7 min track, it's hard to say how 0.2sec in launching will make huge difference. i am not saying it's not, i always think it is. but track performance is far far far more involved than just launching. again, launching doesn't equal to straight line acceleration. straight line acceleration is just that, you floor the car and hold on the wheel. if you are on a track, your car is always moving, there is no need to care about launching.
and to me, 0-60 has more power in marketing than in vehicle track performance.
i am not a pro racer, but i have raced enough. same with gengar, i believe he goes to track too, and i remember he said before he doesn't care much about lc either
and to me, 0-60 has more power in marketing than in vehicle track performance.
i am not a pro racer, but i have raced enough. same with gengar, i believe he goes to track too, and i remember he said before he doesn't care much about lc either
Last edited by 05RollaXRS; 02-25-11 at 02:47 PM.
02-25-11, 03:44 PM
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Top Gear lap times, on the other hand, will benefit hugely from a better launch, as they always start the laps with the cars standing.
Last edited by Mister Two; 02-25-11 at 03:49 PM.
02-25-11, 03:47 PM
#72
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This is what the public direly lacks and need to know. Straight line acceleration times will never tell you how well a car will perform n a course. Course times will never tell you how a car behaves or what the driver experiences. This is why there is so much banter about this car everywhere you go. The American audience is primed strictly to be receptive towards acceleration times. They measure a car's worth with nothing else. That's why I love this car. It's great because it takes someone that understands it to truly appreciate it. I'm not the least worried that cars that cost less will demolish it or ashamed of its results, that many here are in denial about and making excuses for.
Your stating this as if I already didn't know...
When measuring 0-60 or 1/4 mile or anything involving a perfect launch in this aspect..
This is the only time the straight line acceleration will be effected greatly.
(Basically from a Stop)
Joe Z
02-25-11, 04:06 PM
#74
Lexus Test Driver
x 2
I have been saying that for the longest time. S001 are weak tires for such an extreme car. Lexus chose it because it offers good wet traction as well.
All the serious hardcore track cars 599 GTO, GT2 RS, GT3 RS, LP570-4 etc. come with super sticky rubber like the Pirelli Corsa, Dunlop Sport GT Maxx 600 or Michelin Pilot Super Sport tires.
I have been saying that for the longest time. S001 are weak tires for such an extreme car. Lexus chose it because it offers good wet traction as well.
All the serious hardcore track cars 599 GTO, GT2 RS, GT3 RS, LP570-4 etc. come with super sticky rubber like the Pirelli Corsa, Dunlop Sport GT Maxx 600 or Michelin Pilot Super Sport tires.
02-25-11, 04:09 PM
#75
Moderator: LFA, Clubhouse
Also, keep in mind that a lot of those 0-60 times are bunk seeing as many (most? all?) US magazines measure it with a foot of rollout.
Ya, I don't care at all about launch control. The way I see it, launch control only exists because of spec-chasing manufacturers and a mindset previously left only in the realm of internet fanboys. What is it really useful for from a practical standpoint - 1/4mi drags and wannabe racers at stoplights? I have interest in neither. I posted before that I probably will never use it on my LFA, so I'd rather they just left the system out.
Nah, I didn't think you were saying that at all. I was just pointing out that's how Lexus advertised it. And it's probably not a bad idea, as I assume many of the attendees are not familiar with driving supercars at anywhere near the limit (just as they are not in other factory-sponsored exotic driver training programs, like Ferrari's programs).
i absolutely agree it's still an acclimation and a noticeable part of overall performance. sorry if in any way i sounded like i was diminishing its value. but i mainly saying for the track day, only so much could be covered and what i think would be more important imho. if you ask me, to do the acceleration and braking, a good way would be to have a quick race between the 3 cars and see who can do 0-100-0 fastest
Last edited by gengar; 02-25-11 at 04:15 PM.