TRDFantasy

IMHO I feel this thread is not needed at all. Why have a "value" discussion about supercars or exotics? Discussing value has no place with exotics and supercars.

That is your first problem, assuming most LFA buyers are existing exotic owners.

What does this even mean? Do you know what Toyota's own expectations were regarding sales and how fast the car would sell out? Also please show some proof that "anyone who wants one can still buy one". Did you confirm this with Lexus Corporate that right now anyone with the money can just get one of the few remaining LFAs? Somehow I doubt that.

As far as I know, Toyota I believe still holds the title of the car for the first 2 years of ownership. Anyone can correct me if I'm wrong.

gengar

Just to clarify, there are upcharges for many options but the costs are nominal. For example, IIRC the winglets are $200 and the headlight washers are something similar; in the interior, contrasting stitching is around $1000 and some of the interior materials, like alcantara on some of the surfaces, have option prices in that ballpark as well. I think the highest option price is $2500 for certain exterior colors (of course excepting that 20k matte black option).

Still, as mentioned, there is not nearly as much upcharging as on other exotics, like 5k for painted wheels or 6k for electric seats or however much they are on the 458. The base price of 225k is a really silly figure what with most buyers over on fchat adding on over 40k, or around 20%, to that in options. I've never spec'd out a 458 because I don't like their new models (don't even get me started on the FF, it makes me want to bring all my Ferrari collectibles to Maranello and light them on fire) but I can't imagine I wouldn't get pretty close to or maybe even over 300k. And during my recent experience helping a friend spec out his Carrera GTS (thinking about European delivery so I might go with him... time permitting), I was amazed how much even for a pretty inexpensive car the options are just like, $300 here, $800 there, $2000 more over there, and after about 20 options I asked him why he doesn't just keep his current car and buy an LFA or something. But that's how these guys make money...

And as stated, the main technology packages are no additional cost. The choice of base sound system, Nav/ML, or the full Enform system, is included as standard. There's a no-cost delete on this as well.

TommyJames

TRDFantasy, open the most current issue of AutoWeek, the one with the LFA on the cover, and direct your attention to the opening few paragraphs, the one that says that sales were not what they anticipated, the one that says that sixty cars are still available in the US (who knows if that number is valid), the one that says that people claiming to want the car and actually writing the check were two different things.

When you're done reading that, I also suggest you contact a US dealer about the LFA and financing status. Call any one. After reading that and talking to a dealer, then come on here and make your argument. At least take a brief moment to do a little bit of homework somewhere. I'm trying to get you to turn around and look up before you post so you don't like someone arguing that the sun didn't rise that day.

TommyJames

Gengar, did they assign a car number to you at the time of order? Also, do you get to pick the number within the 500 or are they tied to the VIN?

gengar

The car number wasn't assigned at order time and I didn't get to pick it (I specified earliest possible delivery date - don't know if they would have given me the option to pick the number otherwise). I got the car number when I took my LFA Works factory tour earlier this month. The car number is not directly the VIN, and I don't know the car#-to-VIN correspondence yet.

TommyJames

Also, Gengar, you are right about option packages for Ferrari. Lamborghini is getting away from the long list as they once had, but still charge a lot for some tri or matte colors. I paid $17k just for green. Matte colors are extremely difficult to maintain and Lamborghini will only sell them with a special understand disclaimer signed by the buyer.

07grIS350

This is my first exotic. I can't see myself buying another one unless the LFA ownership experience turned out to be so good.
It sounds like you're considering an LFA vs the new Lambo, or both? From reading your posts, I think your primary concern about the LFA is how its value would hold up, correct? Do post your impression of the car once you've tried it. I am hoping to get mine in the March driver development program.

07grIS350

Only when your order is confirmed with the factory, then they should know your car number. I believe this is based on the production schedule. Remember, Lexus is new at this game.

TRDFantasy

Yes, cars are still available, that is not an argument.

You did not answer my question however. Where is your PROOF that "anyone" can pick up and buy one of the remaining LFAs for-sale without meeting any requirements that Lexus has had for buyers? Where is your PROOF for that? If you have no proof for this, then I suggest you do your homework as well, and not imply that an assumption of yours is a fact. I will gladly admit I'm wrong if you have proof that Lexus has thrown out their buyer requirements and criteria and will sell the remaining LFAs simply to anyone who has the money.

gengar

Well, I'd sure hope Lexus would sell the unallocated LFAs to anyone who wants to buy them. Last I heard on the situation, Lexus via an internal memo asked its dealership network to do some outreach to make sure no one wanted one of the "few" units they had remaining. 60 units seems quite farfetched though.

What I really want to figure out is why so many allocations were shifted to the US, especially when potential buyers (such as one here on CL) were turned down in Japan. Or heck, why allocations aren't increased to countries like Canada or others where the LFA is in fact sold out? When I first spoke to Lexus insiders (way back before allocations were even being announced), I heard the number 120 batted around a lot, but soon it went up to 150 and then 171 and maybe now it's even higher. I wouldn't be surprised at all if Lexus USA accurately projected what they needed for, say, an original allocation that was much lower than what they had now and that is why they have surplus units.

Either that, or it's possible Lexus is simply happy with having units on display in the US.

05RollaXRS

That AutoWeek review is most likely old and Scott Pruett put on a great show doing donuts in the LFA and a few hotlaps.

AutoWeek is a very strange publication where in the '12 GTR, they took direct shots at LFA even when they are apples to oranges ('LFA who?'). Yet, the video was completely uninspiring and uneventful while lapping the track. They don't compete with each other in any shape or form.

Evo UK was far more fair for the 'best car of the year' drove the aging white LFA prototype and 2012 GTR back to back said there is simply no comparison between the two cars. While LFA feels like a very lightweight and responsive supercar with a very F1 racing car like engine, the GTR still feels like a very heavy 3900 lbs+ GT car that performs very well owing to its AWD system. With 55% of the weight pinned to the radiator, they were highly critical of the heavy understeer on the updated GTR.




Recently, LA morning TV show and in that the presenter said there are only 20 LFAs left. Here is the video for that (click):

TommyJames

I'm always in the hunt for what's next and I'm completely brand-agnostic. I will post my driving impressions after I spend some time with the car. The track will only tell me so much. In my opinion authentic car guys want to like every car and are more incline to find reasons to like rather than dislike something, even if it's different.

Yes, instruction will be a huge help with your enjoyment level. I can't stress enough how much involving yourself in the car clubs will expand your enjoyment even more. Our Ferrari, Lamborghini and Porsche clubs are not brand only and welcome anyone. I've host a lot of big car events myself and I'd never ever do an event that was brand-specific.

TommyJames

Sorry, but I'm not in the habit of asking my local dealer to put everything in writing when I'm asking general information about a product. I'll be driving it soon enough.

TommyJames

You're raising some excellent points. The exotic market in general seems to be stronger in other parts of the world and not the US. Many exotics are leaving the US. There were 42 SVs that originally came to the US. Normally Lamborghini would sell about twice that of the 350 built. Of the 42, only 26 remain. The others have all be purchased overseas. I don't know of any exotics where the US market remains stronger than the world market. China, India, and South America as well as other Asian countries are now growing stronger while the US is weaker. This completely flies in the face of what Lexus is reporting with the LFA. I can't understand why Japan would be limited and still sold out; and I would expect the LFA to do well there; while allocation is shifted to the US.

It was Autoweek that stated in print that 60 cars were still available. We will see if there is a correction in the next issue this week. It is a weekly so I'd expect the data to be fairly current.

05RollaXRS

Again, get the facts right here. Lexus has not sold all of the allocations in US only. It keeps coming up "Lexus has not sold-out the LFA yet". Again, put things into context, the US market demand has underperformed, not the demand globally.

To say things like "LFA has not sold as well as expected" means you are simply distorting the facts. The fact that there were several markets available to Lexus where they could have easily sold the allocations that were taking time to sell means only one thing. Lexus was hell bent on selling 171 LFAs in the US.

There were other markets practically begging Lexus to give more allocations to their markets, yet Lexus refused. I know for a fact that Lexus Canada asked for more LFAs for Canadian markets once all 10 were sold in May 2010 since Lexus Canada believed firmly they could sell another 10 - 15 LFAs without any problems, yet Lexus ignored the pleas. Australia (where LFA retails at a whopping $875,000) and Japan were the other two markets asking for more allocations.

Case in point, if Lexus had the goal of selling 500 LFAs globally, they would have sold out a long time ago. They just picked to give the biggest allocation to a market that is reluctant to buy exotics these days.