LexFather

I've followed EVO for years and Ferrari has lost most times. They literally stopped providing cars to be reviewed b/c they were pissed(i believe the Ferraris tested are owner cars).

I have a feeling the tranny hurt the LFA too an bias. It's just hard for people to get past "this is a Lexus".

Every review of the GT3 RS I've read has stated it is simply one of the all time greats. I hardly remember a negative written about it. That it beat it's own GT2 RS says something (and a review in GT Porsche felt the same way)

05RollaXRS

I am just hoping magically (much like in the 599 GTB HGTE comparison) LFA puts down some great performance numbers and lap times very comparable with the rest of the cars, which would be the saving grace. Then, atleast it puts everything in an extremely subjective light.

However, seeing this old, white prototype has endlessly been ragged on since last year, I doubt that will happen. Maybe, just LFA needed ~ 600 HP from a slightly bigger engine (5.2 liter V10 instead of 4.8 Liters to produce the same 115 HP/Liter).

rominl

iTrader: (4)

i think the "this is a lexus" statement does exist in the back of their mind, but at the same time i am sure the gtr had a much louder "this is a nissan" statement hitting the editors. of course, i want to stress, i am not comparing between the two cars (before any of the argues get started all over again), but in some way, that tells me 2 yrs ago the gtr hit the editors' heart harder than the lfa this year

LexFather

^^^ Henry it's something I've seen not just in reviews but online. People bash Lexus and have bias for being boring. These same people refuse to acknowlede Lexus has produced sporty cars and hate they are sucessfully moving forward.

It's the weirdest thing. They will hump Honda/Acura/Nissan/infinti but can't appreciate Toyota/Lexus. The irony is Lexus right now is the only one competing in the super saloon and supercar segment. More irony is Lexus has more racing heritage than Infinti by far. If we look around there are more modified Lexus cars than both combined (integras don't count lol).

The Honda NSx and Nissan GT-R have always been EVO favorites. To their credit they love the IS F. I think EVO is pretty fair.

LexFather

One more thing Ive loved the NSX since day one and the Gt-R. The LFA has elevated JApanese cars to where thy haven't been before. It's disapointing to hear Nissan/Honda fans diss the LFA with any dumbass arguement possible.

As my cousin would say "kill urself" lol

I hope EVO gave it a fair shake. The comparo stars out with 20-30 cars and the way it works is
- supercars/true sports cars automatic in
-winner of super sedans
-winner of small cars

all then ranked 1-10

rominl

iTrader: (4)

not surprised if there are some sort of bias involved. it's in any review you can imagine, as well as every person, one way or the other. but i agree with you, evo is one of the respectable mags that i think is worth my time reading

on the other hand, i don't know, but i tend to admit lexus cars are "boring" to drive in some sense. but that's what good about the brand itself anyway, it makes driving effortless. of all the lexus i have driven / owned, very true, i don't think anyone of them is really exciting to drive, and the gs400 was the closest one under heavy modification. the isf (i put aside the lfa) is probably the only car from lexus stock that i think isn't boring and it's a good sports car.

to certain extend i don't mind the critics from people saying lexus is boring. on one hand, that means lexus maintains what they are good about. on the other hand, that motivates lexus to work hard to make their real sport car (f line) sportier

05RollaXRS

I found out Ferrari refused to send the 599 GTO and 458 Italia both in the same comparison since they did not want both of these cars to be pit against each other.

Maybe, Lexus needs to learn from Ferrari on how to take the press serious as far as establishing the rapport of an exotic car.

Ferrari sent a truckload of technicians to the site to make sure the car is consistently performing at its peak and also put the optional extra cost Michelin PS2 tires on the car while Lexus handed them over a beaten down, ragged on 14 month old prototype that has about 15,000 miles of abuse.

flipside909

Just curious but why are you so obsessed with the LFA they're utilizing for tests. You don't think Lexus maintains this car after every test or event? Just because it's a 14 month old prototype with 15k miles doesn't mean it's trash. It's Lexus we're talking about here, not an unreliable European or American brand for that matter. Remember, there aren't many LFA prototypes out there, and each prototype costs 3x more than a production car which they are already losing money on. You don't think Lexus techs are onsite when they're out in the field when magazines are doing their evaluations? Think again because there's always a truck loaded with equipment and techs following the LFA wherever it's being tested.

Mister Two

I know you know this thread since you've already replied, but I'm quoting it here for the rest of the CL folks. Hope to see someone posting the performance stats too though.

http://www.germancarforum.com/intern...tml#post493119

"The list is the following:
1. Porsche GT3 RS : 96.3 (6 top votes out of 10)
2. Ferrari 458 : 95.6 (4 top votes out of 10)
3. Porsche GT2 RS : 93.8
4. Lexus LFA : 92.5
5. Mercedes SLS : 91.5
6. Audi R8 V10 Spyder : 90.9
7. Lotus Evora S : 90.5
8. Nissan GTR : 90 (MY 2011, so the new one)
9. Lamborghini Gallardo LP570 : 88.5
9. Ford Focus RS500 : 88.5

Didn't go through the full 40 pages but here is a very quick a summary of the conclusion (reverse order):
9. Gallardo is old school versus the 458.
9. Ford focus is a very good car, with good traction and pleasant to drive, but cannot bear the comparison vs all the other cars which are in a different league.
8. Still as potent as before but it lacks the novelty effect. Suspensions are still an issue, lacking feedback. The new GT-R is not a revolution and if you didn't like the previous one, this is not going to change.
7. Dynamics is top level (steering, ride, handling) but quality is disappointing.
6. Nothing new, always the same review for R8: easy driving, everyday usability, top-performance. Good conversion into convertible.
5. Divided the opinions (some high scores, some low ones, not a lot of average). Everyone loved the engine, most reviewers hated the transmission (worse than some auto, not at the expected level for a DCT).
4. Very special car which shows passion. Extraordinary V10 engine comparable to the CGT's. Tough ride.
3. Less satisfying that a GT3 RS, but could have been a winner on another year.
2. Astonishing car, from the cockpit to the drivetrain and the handling. Less involving than the GT3 RS.
1. Best driver's car..."

rominl

iTrader: (4)

i wonder what do they mean by "tough ride" on the lfa

wow, best driver's car on the gt3rs huh? that says a lot

05RollaXRS

4th place is still very respectable. Only 1 point separates the GT2 RS and the LFA.

I would like to see what their impressions were of the LFA. Still it is great that LFA placed so far ahead of the new refreshed '12 GTR.

05RollaXRS

What I meant to say was that there are only a handful of LFA prototypes that go through so many tests, test drives, drifts etc.

I know for a fact that a lot of people have called the white prototype transmission "clunky and feels like aging" while the latest yellow prototype has no such issues and every review I read of the yellow prototype praises the transmission. That shows the difference between the first prototype and the last prototype.

Now compare to other cars that are far more abundant where a single test car does not have nearly as much abusive miles on it since there is a much bigger inventory to supply to the press.

In a nutshell, the white prototype's 15k miles are much more "abusive miles" compared to say any other GT3 RS, 458 Italia etc. test cars since

rominl

iTrader: (4)

oh come on, you didn't expect the gtr to be anywhere close right?

regarding the list, overall i think it's about what i'd have it. i am a bit surprised the r8 v10 that high, and i thought the lp570 would be higher

05RollaXRS

You never know what these European magazines are going to come up with.

TF109B

I agree with Rolla, send the full production model in there, not a prototype that's been running around since early 2009. Regardless of how well it's upkept, it'll still show it's age in things like the transmission, seeing as how I don't think they'll be updating one of the older cars with things like that. The body has changed somewhat (the rear winglets no longer screwed on) but besides that I don't see anything that has been changed. People always say there won't be any difference to the production cars and the prototypes. Well that's just sad, coming from people who've been driving the car and presenting it, are saying that changes were being made up until production. I'm betting transmission changes, in how well the gears change, automatic mode, some computer updating, who knows. There's no way that the LFA will take a minute to hit 184mph though, unless they have a very strong head wind. I don't think the wing is that much of a hindrance. That's just one of the things that has been said about the LFA. The ride is another thing. But when you have a stiff carbon chassis, what do you expect? Maybe they see a Lexus and expect that cushioned comfort they're known for? Who knows. I suspect when the car is here in the next couple months we will get a better picture of what the actual performance is. You can't just hop in a car and expect to go fast though. Learning is needed with any vehicle. So these 'tests' are just that, a test, a preview. They hardly hit the sweet spot yet.