Motortrend: LFA vs. GTR
05-11-10, 09:23 PM
#61
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Correct me if I'm wrong here, but the article clearly stated this LF-A is a preproduction prototype and from what I have heard the prototypes are aluminum and NOT carbon fiber. This would explain the extra weight. I can only imagine had they tested the production version there would be even more gap in performance between the two.
"It is also a preproduction prototype -- a crusher in industry parlance. It has no VIN or license plate, and sits on non-DOT-approved tires, so we can't drive it on the street. When we're done with it, it gets shipped back to Japan where it will likely be reduced to a fine, expensive powder."
"It is also a preproduction prototype -- a crusher in industry parlance. It has no VIN or license plate, and sits on non-DOT-approved tires, so we can't drive it on the street. When we're done with it, it gets shipped back to Japan where it will likely be reduced to a fine, expensive powder."
shed 300+ lbs to get 0-60 near 3s, 1/4 mi. in the mid-low 11's?
btw, great cinematography by MT.
05-11-10, 10:27 PM
#62
Lexus Champion
That's what I was assuming as well! That these are older LFA models they don't need. Why waste a production ready LFA with carbon fiber as the chassis (motortrend said lexus stated it was a prototype, a trasher)?
It makes sense to think these guys are getting older LFA's with outdated Aluminum chassis, that aren't lacking in strength any, but lesser weight. That way they aren't going over their allocation of '500' LFA's in total. Because these aren't the Carbon Fiber chassis LFA's. These are older Aluminum Chassis LFA's.
It makes sense to think these guys are getting older LFA's with outdated Aluminum chassis, that aren't lacking in strength any, but lesser weight. That way they aren't going over their allocation of '500' LFA's in total. Because these aren't the Carbon Fiber chassis LFA's. These are older Aluminum Chassis LFA's.
05-11-10, 11:30 PM
#63
Lexus Fanatic
LFA vs GTR 1/4 mile video:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=A5R-oi91bd4
the
lfa is like 600 lbs lighter and has something like 70 hp on the gtr and only won by a tenth. I would have thought the gap would have been wider.
The GTR defies the laws of physics
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=A5R-oi91bd4
the
lfa is like 600 lbs lighter and has something like 70 hp on the gtr and only won by a tenth. I would have thought the gap would have been wider.
The GTR defies the laws of physics
Last edited by I8ABMR; 05-11-10 at 11:38 PM.
05-11-10, 11:58 PM
#65
Lexus Champion
500 PRODUCTION LFA's in total, no more no less. If there are more than 500 it must be prototypes, and how many of them do they have? Motortrend said this car was a 'trasher' why are they going to trash a production LFA? This is a prototype and my bet is that the CHASSIS is made of Aluminum. NOT THE BODY. The panels are made of CFRP, this much is true, but the switch to Carbon Fiber for the CHASSIS wasn't made until 2008, this means that there were cars made of Aluminum in the Chassis before the switch in 2009 to Carbon fiber. If I'm mistaken please give me a link that says when they made their cars with a carbon fiber chassis and not an aluminum one. I might be mistaken but why would the hand out an expensive to produce carbon fiber chassis LFA to be run on demo's of car magazines to just be a crusher? It's not plausible. This must mean it's an older model with the updated body panels. Because all along the body was said to be made of CFRP, but NOT THE CHASSIS.
05-12-10, 12:41 AM
#66
put it this way, there is no way for you to prove otherwise neither. from a manufacturing / study point of view, it only makes sense for lexus to produce a few more lfa with the final production line for their own "collection" or study or diagnostic purposes. in terms of business, it makes no sense that all production worthy units are sold and only stuff left in factories are prototypes. that makes debugging or studying issues extremely difficult. it's very basic rule for manufacturing in pretty much all industries
auto manufacturers always produce a lot of cars for "trash" purposes, to test extremes conditions, let them slide, hit uneven roads, heat, etc... so they can learn more. those cars are also used for a lot of reviews and for press purposes as well, it's very common practice (i have seen a lot of such vehicles circling around from shows to shows and events to events). if one is to look at the real cost of r&d on creating a vehicle (let alone) lfa, making one more car? it's nothing "expensive" at all
keep in mind i am not arguing if this car that MT tested is aluminum or cf chassis, honestly i don't really care and it's not something anyone can prove anyway. but i am just saying there should be more than 500 lfa produced, but 500 will be sold. if only 500 produced and no more no less, lexus is incredibly stupid when they see they have no production car in factory to diagnose a problem.
auto manufacturers always produce a lot of cars for "trash" purposes, to test extremes conditions, let them slide, hit uneven roads, heat, etc... so they can learn more. those cars are also used for a lot of reviews and for press purposes as well, it's very common practice (i have seen a lot of such vehicles circling around from shows to shows and events to events). if one is to look at the real cost of r&d on creating a vehicle (let alone) lfa, making one more car? it's nothing "expensive" at all
keep in mind i am not arguing if this car that MT tested is aluminum or cf chassis, honestly i don't really care and it's not something anyone can prove anyway. but i am just saying there should be more than 500 lfa produced, but 500 will be sold. if only 500 produced and no more no less, lexus is incredibly stupid when they see they have no production car in factory to diagnose a problem.
05-12-10, 01:56 AM
#68
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I see carbon fiber on the body, where in the chassis can there be visible carbon fiber? the body is on top of the chassis. The body is made of CF, I don't know what you're trying to tell me to look at. I don't see a chassis with carbon fiber.
All i see is the rear and according to lexus the front and rear crash structures are made of aluminum. The tub is made of Carbon Fiber.
All i see is the rear and according to lexus the front and rear crash structures are made of aluminum. The tub is made of Carbon Fiber.
Took me so long to reply to you because it took me a while to find this pic for you (source):
See that? The exposed CF rear diffuser is part of the one-piece CF mono-cell tub of the LFA. The fact that the LFA prototype that MototTrend tested has a CF rear diffuser automatically means that it has a CF chassis. Let's look at the prototype pic again:
Got my point now?
Last edited by Mister Two; 05-12-10 at 02:12 AM.
05-12-10, 06:57 AM
#69
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**edit**
no they aren't
05-12-10, 09:34 AM
#71
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I am actually glad MT brought a GTR around. We all know the GT-R defies the laws of physics and like the ZR1/911 Turbo gives you supercar performance for much less. I love the GTR, period.
With that said it is strikingly clear why the LFA is quite possibly the greatest car Japan has ever produced. Much like the LS 600h L, the LFA is the best Japan could build in that segment.
To know this car is even produced is a feat in itself.
If the GTR is godzilla, the LFA is Bishamon, the Japanese god of war.
THis is correct. For example there are multiple Porsches that are eventually found that people thought were not made or scrapped. You would be surprised at what a company produces that the public has no awareness about.
Surely one goes in the Toyota Museum(s) as well.
With that said it is strikingly clear why the LFA is quite possibly the greatest car Japan has ever produced. Much like the LS 600h L, the LFA is the best Japan could build in that segment.
To know this car is even produced is a feat in itself.
If the GTR is godzilla, the LFA is Bishamon, the Japanese god of war.
put it this way, there is no way for you to prove otherwise neither. from a manufacturing / study point of view, it only makes sense for lexus to produce a few more lfa with the final production line for their own "collection" or study or diagnostic purposes. in terms of business, it makes no sense that all production worthy units are sold and only stuff left in factories are prototypes. that makes debugging or studying issues extremely difficult. it's very basic rule for manufacturing in pretty much all industries
auto manufacturers always produce a lot of cars for "trash" purposes, to test extremes conditions, let them slide, hit uneven roads, heat, etc... so they can learn more. those cars are also used for a lot of reviews and for press purposes as well, it's very common practice (i have seen a lot of such vehicles circling around from shows to shows and events to events). if one is to look at the real cost of r&d on creating a vehicle (let alone) lfa, making one more car? it's nothing "expensive" at all
keep in mind i am not arguing if this car that MT tested is aluminum or cf chassis, honestly i don't really care and it's not something anyone can prove anyway. but i am just saying there should be more than 500 lfa produced, but 500 will be sold. if only 500 produced and no more no less, lexus is incredibly stupid when they see they have no production car in factory to diagnose a problem.
auto manufacturers always produce a lot of cars for "trash" purposes, to test extremes conditions, let them slide, hit uneven roads, heat, etc... so they can learn more. those cars are also used for a lot of reviews and for press purposes as well, it's very common practice (i have seen a lot of such vehicles circling around from shows to shows and events to events). if one is to look at the real cost of r&d on creating a vehicle (let alone) lfa, making one more car? it's nothing "expensive" at all
keep in mind i am not arguing if this car that MT tested is aluminum or cf chassis, honestly i don't really care and it's not something anyone can prove anyway. but i am just saying there should be more than 500 lfa produced, but 500 will be sold. if only 500 produced and no more no less, lexus is incredibly stupid when they see they have no production car in factory to diagnose a problem.
Surely one goes in the Toyota Museum(s) as well.
05-12-10, 09:43 AM
#72
Lexus Champion
What i said was there are 500 Production LFA's, and that Motortrend didn't receive a production LFA, so to think that they could have possibly received an aluminum chassis LFA is not out of the question. The reason I am asking if any of you know for sure is because of the claimed weight difference. The cars Motortrend and C&D are testing weigh around 3600lbs. So do you think that Lexus said the LFA weighs 3263-34XXlbs. as a dry weight? Are the lying? I don't think so. Thats why I'm curious as to why these cars weigh significantly more than what Lexus states.
All this debate isn't needed to cause problems. I'm just asking if any of you think it's possible that this is the case. I'm not getting into details about the # of LFA's there are. I'm not an LFA insider so I don't know all the facts. But when motortrend says this car is a trasher, I wouldn't consider it to be one of their models they intend to keep for their 'collection' or whatever. Which to me is another reason for thinking this is an OLDER prototype in terms of chassis, and could be made of Aluminum.
All this debate isn't needed to cause problems. I'm just asking if any of you think it's possible that this is the case. I'm not getting into details about the # of LFA's there are. I'm not an LFA insider so I don't know all the facts. But when motortrend says this car is a trasher, I wouldn't consider it to be one of their models they intend to keep for their 'collection' or whatever. Which to me is another reason for thinking this is an OLDER prototype in terms of chassis, and could be made of Aluminum.
05-12-10, 10:38 AM
#73
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Why not make a budget LF-A light with the aluminum chassis for under 100k.
Baller on a budget, I'll take a slightly used GTR for around 50k.
Money no question, the LF-A. Yamaha tuned the hell out of that exhaust note, it is so dangnabit intoxicating! That an the all digital dash. Everything about it, except the price, is right!
Would be nice to see some of this advanced technology trickle down into some of Lexus current and upcoming models (SC/GS/IS). 2012 hardtop convertable SC with digital dash; one can only dream.
Baller on a budget, I'll take a slightly used GTR for around 50k.
Money no question, the LF-A. Yamaha tuned the hell out of that exhaust note, it is so dangnabit intoxicating! That an the all digital dash. Everything about it, except the price, is right!
Would be nice to see some of this advanced technology trickle down into some of Lexus current and upcoming models (SC/GS/IS). 2012 hardtop convertable SC with digital dash; one can only dream.
05-12-10, 11:11 AM
#74
Lexus Fanatic
can you imagine what the GTR would do to the LFA if it weighed a few hundred lbs less or had the switzer 800 package. Very cool video amd I am happy they brought godzilla out to play with THE Japanese super car.