Lexus LFA- Discussion, Pictures & News (new colors gloss black, blue, yellow)
10-14-10, 08:26 AM
#2761
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Posts: n/a
To me Ring Times became the next **** measuring contest. I started a thread about it years ago. No one knew WTF a Nurburgring was, myself included. Now everyone quotes times there without knowing jack about it. There are so many factors involved to get the lowest time and it is hugely expensive.
With Pagani doing a sub 7 minute time to me it really killed it for other car makers. True the car was highly modified but TO ME there is no point to say "oh the LFA can do a 7:22" if there are other cars that have now done it faster, modified or not.
I also feel the "Ring" has helped ruin cars. People don't drive on the track but MARKETING has decided its important that a Yaris
was tested at the ring. So now everyday cars are harsher so they can be 1 sec faster around a track in Germany
This is correct. If the car's business model won't make money Ghosn won't approve it. That said the opposing view is also correct that the GT-R brings a halo to the brand and they have advertised how the GT-R makes other Nissans better in ads.
Well technically Ferrari's stance is "they have no competition". That is how they operate.
They basically feel they build cars that no one can match.
If you look at many reviews most times the cars are supplied by private owners. Ferrari will not send a car to be independently reviewed.
A couple of years ago Ferrari was pissed that EVO (or maybe CAR) picked a GT3 as their Car of the Year over their car. I believe they stopped sending cars.
With Pagani doing a sub 7 minute time to me it really killed it for other car makers. True the car was highly modified but TO ME there is no point to say "oh the LFA can do a 7:22" if there are other cars that have now done it faster, modified or not.
I also feel the "Ring" has helped ruin cars. People don't drive on the track but MARKETING has decided its important that a Yaris
was tested at the ring. So now everyday cars are harsher so they can be 1 sec faster around a track in GermanyYou will be disappointed because I am sure Lexus will not fall for that trap and get into rat race of putting lap times that are totally un-reproducable in real life by even a single independent source.
Ferrari must be foolish as well for not releasing any Nurburgring laptimes of the 458 Italia and the hardcore 458 Challenge.
Ferrari must be foolish as well for not releasing any Nurburgring laptimes of the 458 Italia and the hardcore 458 Challenge.
They basically feel they build cars that no one can match. If you look at many reviews most times the cars are supplied by private owners. Ferrari will not send a car to be independently reviewed.
A couple of years ago Ferrari was pissed that EVO (or maybe CAR) picked a GT3 as their Car of the Year over their car. I believe they stopped sending cars.
10-14-10, 08:33 AM
#2762
Lexus Test Driver
Don't forget Nissan charges an arm and a leg for service and maintenance of the GTR. They call it "an ultra high performance car with ultra high needs".
$6000 for a brake job alone. True story! Yet, they give a Nissan Leaf as a loaner car. That is just laughible.
$6000 for a brake job alone. True story! Yet, they give a Nissan Leaf as a loaner car. That is just laughible.
To me Ring Times became the next **** measuring contest. I started a thread about it years ago. No one knew WTF a Nurburgring was, myself included. Now everyone quotes times there without knowing jack about it. There are so many factors involved to get the lowest time and it is hugely expensive.
With Pagani doing a sub 7 minute time to me it really killed it for other car makers. True the car was highly modified but TO ME there is no point to say "oh the LFA can do a 7:22" if there are other cars that have now done it faster, modified or not.
I also feel the "Ring" has helped ruin cars. People don't drive on the track but MARKETING has decided its important that a Yaris was tested at the ring. So now everyday cars are harsher so they can be 1 sec faster around a track in Germany
This is correct. If the car's business model won't make money Ghosn won't approve it. That said the opposing view is also correct that the GT-R brings a halo to the brand and they have advertised how the GT-R makes other Nissans better in ads.
Well technically Ferrari's stance is "they have no competition". That is how they operate. They basically feel they build cars that no one can match.
If you look at many reviews most times the cars are supplied by private owners. Ferrari will not send a car to be independently reviewed.
A couple of years ago Ferrari was pissed that EVO (or maybe CAR) picked a GT3 as their Car of the Year over their car. I believe they stopped sending cars.
With Pagani doing a sub 7 minute time to me it really killed it for other car makers. True the car was highly modified but TO ME there is no point to say "oh the LFA can do a 7:22" if there are other cars that have now done it faster, modified or not.
I also feel the "Ring" has helped ruin cars. People don't drive on the track but MARKETING has decided its important that a Yaris
was tested at the ring. So now everyday cars are harsher so they can be 1 sec faster around a track in GermanyThis is correct. If the car's business model won't make money Ghosn won't approve it. That said the opposing view is also correct that the GT-R brings a halo to the brand and they have advertised how the GT-R makes other Nissans better in ads.
Well technically Ferrari's stance is "they have no competition". That is how they operate.
They basically feel they build cars that no one can match. If you look at many reviews most times the cars are supplied by private owners. Ferrari will not send a car to be independently reviewed.
A couple of years ago Ferrari was pissed that EVO (or maybe CAR) picked a GT3 as their Car of the Year over their car. I believe they stopped sending cars.
10-14-10, 08:37 AM
#2763
Guest
Posts: n/a
I think TRD does have a point though that the GT-R's lap time didn't mean much of anything in regards to sales. People didn't drop their 911 turbos to get a GT-R.
Most people already have their mind up on what they want (some lucky people buy them both). Most people do care about the badge. This hurts Nissan and Lexus in this realm. Contrarily the badge helps Lexus to sell their other vehicles.
Nissan WILL NOT release a Ring lap time for the Spec-V. This car is nearly twice the price of a stock GT-R and you don't gain much. Nissan probably realizes even if the Spec-V is 1 or 2 seconds faster then people will say "well for twice the price you get a slightly faster car on the track". Thing is it doesn't matter, people want a rarer GT-R and buy it irregardless of any performance gains.
Lexus might not release official times for the LFA or the Nurburging edition. They still are going to sell them all to interested buyers who want the vehicle. Why?
Funny but I was at a car show and saw a a few Ferrari's and Lambos, some the same model. Lovely cars and then a funny thought struck me after I saw a Mosler Raptor.
"If you have a LFA, you probably won't ever be parked next to another one".
That to many people means a 2 minute, 30 second Nurburging time
Most people already have their mind up on what they want (some lucky people buy them both
). Most people do care about the badge. This hurts Nissan and Lexus in this realm. Contrarily the badge helps Lexus to sell their other vehicles. Nissan WILL NOT release a Ring lap time for the Spec-V. This car is nearly twice the price of a stock GT-R and you don't gain much. Nissan probably realizes even if the Spec-V is 1 or 2 seconds faster then people will say "well for twice the price you get a slightly faster car on the track". Thing is it doesn't matter, people want a rarer GT-R and buy it irregardless of any performance gains.
Lexus might not release official times for the LFA or the Nurburging edition. They still are going to sell them all to interested buyers who want the vehicle. Why?
Funny but I was at a car show and saw a a few Ferrari's and Lambos, some the same model. Lovely cars and then a funny thought struck me after I saw a Mosler Raptor.
"If you have a LFA, you probably won't ever be parked next to another one".
That to many people means a 2 minute, 30 second Nurburging time
10-14-10, 08:40 AM
#2764
great post, mike (applaud...)
of course, there are a lot of measures to see whether a car is great or not, and everyone is subjected to their own preference.
to me it's pretty simple. if a car is very commonly well received / praised by random general public, then it's a successful car (very honest here). how it achieves that, it can be a lot of different factors. brand heritage, appearance appeal, sharp performance aspect, the list goes on....
for example almost everyone knows ferrari and lamborghini (brand). people wow over veyron (1000 hp).
enthusiasts and experts can nick pick on details and say what they think is the best, but if the car is not welcome by most, then it's a big problem in my eyes
of course, there are a lot of measures to see whether a car is great or not, and everyone is subjected to their own preference.
to me it's pretty simple. if a car is very commonly well received / praised by random general public, then it's a successful car (very honest here). how it achieves that, it can be a lot of different factors. brand heritage, appearance appeal, sharp performance aspect, the list goes on....
for example almost everyone knows ferrari and lamborghini (brand). people wow over veyron (1000 hp).
enthusiasts and experts can nick pick on details and say what they think is the best, but if the car is not welcome by most, then it's a big problem in my eyes
10-14-10, 08:44 AM
#2765
service a sl65 and see what you get for loaner?
i don't see your point with the gtr. i am not a big fan of the car (and your post is one of the reasons), but it does bring to table a very cheap ticket to great performance (and black hole down the road too). it pumps up the nissan name quite a bit
10-14-10, 08:49 AM
#2766
I think TRD does have a point though that the GT-R's lap time didn't mean much of anything in regards to sales. People didn't drop their 911 turbos to get a GT-R.
Most people already have their mind up on what they want (some lucky people buy them both). Most people do care about the badge. This hurts Nissan and Lexus in this realm. Contrarily the badge helps Lexus to sell their other vehicles.
Nissan WILL NOT release a Ring lap time for the Spec-V. This car is nearly twice the price of a stock GT-R and you don't gain much. Nissan probably realizes even if the Spec-V is 1 or 2 seconds faster then people will say "well for twice the price you get a slightly faster car on the track". Thing is it doesn't matter, people want a rarer GT-R and buy it irregardless of any performance gains.
Lexus might not release official times for the LFA or the Nurburging edition. They still are going to sell them all to interested buyers who want the vehicle. Why?
Funny but I was at a car show and saw a a few Ferrari's and Lambos, some the same model. Lovely cars and then a funny thought struck me after I saw a Mosler Raptor.
"If you have a LFA, you probably won't ever be parked next to another one".
That to many people means a 2 minute, 30 second Nurburging time
Most people already have their mind up on what they want (some lucky people buy them both
). Most people do care about the badge. This hurts Nissan and Lexus in this realm. Contrarily the badge helps Lexus to sell their other vehicles. Nissan WILL NOT release a Ring lap time for the Spec-V. This car is nearly twice the price of a stock GT-R and you don't gain much. Nissan probably realizes even if the Spec-V is 1 or 2 seconds faster then people will say "well for twice the price you get a slightly faster car on the track". Thing is it doesn't matter, people want a rarer GT-R and buy it irregardless of any performance gains.
Lexus might not release official times for the LFA or the Nurburging edition. They still are going to sell them all to interested buyers who want the vehicle. Why?
Funny but I was at a car show and saw a a few Ferrari's and Lambos, some the same model. Lovely cars and then a funny thought struck me after I saw a Mosler Raptor.
"If you have a LFA, you probably won't ever be parked next to another one".
That to many people means a 2 minute, 30 second Nurburging time
i think it's about two things, what does lexus want out of the car.
if they want the car to go into perspective owners' hands, then ring time is completely unnecessary and i don't see why they should release them. it just doesn't matter coz' those owners justify their own purchases, they don't need further support.
if lexus wants to use the lfa to prove a point to the public about what they can do, then the ring time serves a purpose. it's somewhat like the hp game, it doesn't mean everything, but at the same time, it's somewhat an unofficial metric.
i am more leaning toward lexus having the first intention, that's why they are careful on their owners selection.
10-14-10, 08:54 AM
#2767
Guest
Posts: n/a
I applaud Nissan for bringing us the GT-R and I love it. Been a fan of GT-Rs since I could remember. The GT-R was the FIRST car to lap the Ring under 8 minutes.
What 15 years ago or so. Hopefully its selling well enough to make a R36.
great post, mike (applaud...)
of course, there are a lot of measures to see whether a car is great or not, and everyone is subjected to their own preference.
to me it's pretty simple. if a car is very commonly well received / praised by random general public, then it's a successful car (very honest here). how it achieves that, it can be a lot of different factors. brand heritage, appearance appeal, sharp performance aspect, the list goes on....
for example almost everyone knows ferrari and lamborghini (brand). people wow over veyron (1000 hp).
enthusiasts and experts can nick pick on details and say what they think is the best, but if the car is not welcome by most, then it's a big problem in my eyes
of course, there are a lot of measures to see whether a car is great or not, and everyone is subjected to their own preference.
to me it's pretty simple. if a car is very commonly well received / praised by random general public, then it's a successful car (very honest here). how it achieves that, it can be a lot of different factors. brand heritage, appearance appeal, sharp performance aspect, the list goes on....
for example almost everyone knows ferrari and lamborghini (brand). people wow over veyron (1000 hp).
enthusiasts and experts can nick pick on details and say what they think is the best, but if the car is not welcome by most, then it's a big problem in my eyes
In regards to internet fanbois most already don't like Lexus, refuse to acknowledge anything good
Lexus does and the LFA has blown their tiny brains.
I also have to give lots of credit to people who have accepted the LFA and understand why its such a great car. They traditionally would not like a Lexus but they see the merits of the LFA and can appreciate it coming to the market.
Oddly enough, I think a lot of people would be more accepting if Honda brought their NSX or if Infiniti built their Essence. To them Lexus still means fluffy and couch-like. The LFA should not be a Lexus. They just HATE Lexus. No matter if fact or fiction, Acura and Infiniti are the "sportier" brands and Lexus is the anti-sport brand. With F-sport, the IS F and now LFA that has changed. I now question what the other brands are here for?
Lexus is really changing perceptions here.
10-14-10, 09:01 AM
#2768
Guest
Posts: n/a
interesting post mike, very good points.
i think it's about two things, what does lexus want out of the car.
if they want the car to go into perspective owners' hands, then ring time is completely unnecessary and i don't see why they should release them. it just doesn't matter coz' those owners justify their own purchases, they don't need further support.
if lexus wants to use the lfa to prove a point to the public about what they can do, then the ring time serves a purpose. it's somewhat like the hp game, it doesn't mean everything, but at the same time, it's somewhat an unofficial metric.
i am more leaning toward lexus having the first intention, that's why they are careful on their owners selection.
i think it's about two things, what does lexus want out of the car.
if they want the car to go into perspective owners' hands, then ring time is completely unnecessary and i don't see why they should release them. it just doesn't matter coz' those owners justify their own purchases, they don't need further support.
if lexus wants to use the lfa to prove a point to the public about what they can do, then the ring time serves a purpose. it's somewhat like the hp game, it doesn't mean everything, but at the same time, it's somewhat an unofficial metric.
i am more leaning toward lexus having the first intention, that's why they are careful on their owners selection.
Even to gear-heads, the question comes up "why does it cost so much" and quite frankly no matter my response, there will never be a right answer. What is important, maybe even more important than the LFA itself is what will Lexus do next? If the LFA really going to be a new "halo" to the brand's sporting intentions? Will we get a much more expanded "F" Lineup? Will we get a more accessible sports car in the 100k range?
Or will it will some sort of one-of to show abilities of the brand that never truly trickle down.
There are revelations that what was learned of the IS F/LFA are in the CT some (seating position/sportier drive). That sounds great but its hard to get excited about a 140hp car. We need to see this in other cars.
10-14-10, 09:46 AM
#2769
Lexus Test Driver
Agreed. Good point Nissan never released the V Spec Nurburgring time since they probably had realized how their bluff was called when no one in the real world could replicate their lap times making journalists/testers question Nissan's credibility.
I have seen some awesome acceptance by European car owners as well Japanese enthusiasts as well.
However, still there is so much ignorance on the internet, it is not even funny. Many people actually refuse to believe that LFA actually for the first time in history of Lexus is actually out-performing ALL the major European competitors and winning the track lap times hands down. It will take time for people to start accepting reality.
An LFA outperforming a stripped down LP570-4 wearing slick Pirelli P Zero Corsa tires is astonishing feat.
I got sick of people always saying "A $375,000 car and not any faster than a $100,000 GTR". That was one of the most ignorant and uneducated claims one can make. Sad part is, almost 100% of these people are using the factory 0 - 60 mph (which happens to be the same for LFA and GTR) to make such a broad and general claim.
Now, with the hard numbers and facts of testers backing it up, the haters cannot deny since head to head numbers don't lie.
I have seen some awesome acceptance by European car owners as well Japanese enthusiasts as well.
However, still there is so much ignorance on the internet, it is not even funny. Many people actually refuse to believe that LFA actually for the first time in history of Lexus is actually out-performing ALL the major European competitors and winning the track lap times hands down. It will take time for people to start accepting reality.
An LFA outperforming a stripped down LP570-4 wearing slick Pirelli P Zero Corsa tires is astonishing feat.
I got sick of people always saying "A $375,000 car and not any faster than a $100,000 GTR". That was one of the most ignorant and uneducated claims one can make. Sad part is, almost 100% of these people are using the factory 0 - 60 mph (which happens to be the same for LFA and GTR) to make such a broad and general claim.
Now, with the hard numbers and facts of testers backing it up, the haters cannot deny since head to head numbers don't lie.
I think its the first as well. The LFA is not the most powerful or the lightest. Quite frankly I've tried explaining the car to non-gear heads and they have no idea what I am talking about. Even to gear-heads, the question comes up "why does it cost so much" and quite frankly no matter my response, there will never be a right answer.
What is important, maybe even more important than the LFA itself is what will Lexus do next? If the LFA really going to be a new "halo" to the brand's sporting intentions? Will we get a much more expanded "F" Lineup? Will we get a more accessible sports car in the 100k range?
Or will it will some sort of one-of to show abilities of the brand that never truly trickle down.
There are revelations that what was learned of the IS F/LFA are in the CT some (seating position/sportier drive). That sounds great but its hard to get excited about a 140hp car. We need to see this in other cars.
Even to gear-heads, the question comes up "why does it cost so much" and quite frankly no matter my response, there will never be a right answer. What is important, maybe even more important than the LFA itself is what will Lexus do next? If the LFA really going to be a new "halo" to the brand's sporting intentions? Will we get a much more expanded "F" Lineup? Will we get a more accessible sports car in the 100k range?
Or will it will some sort of one-of to show abilities of the brand that never truly trickle down.
There are revelations that what was learned of the IS F/LFA are in the CT some (seating position/sportier drive). That sounds great but its hard to get excited about a 140hp car. We need to see this in other cars.
Last edited by 05RollaXRS; 10-14-10 at 10:04 AM.
10-14-10, 11:11 AM
#2770
Yeah I've heard about the expensive service. That doesn't help sell the car. A 911 Turbo isn't that expensive to run relatively speaking.
I applaud Nissan for bringing us the GT-R and I love it. Been a fan of GT-Rs since I could remember. The GT-R was the FIRST car to lap the Ring under 8 minutes. What 15 years ago or so.
Hopefully its selling well enough to make a R36.
Very true. The LFA of course is an odd piece. Lexus is one of the most recognized brands in the world. That said saying Lexus LFA will probably lose most people. While I am personally surprised by how many know about it (no doubt due to the summer advertising blitz) I figure most are not aware it is available, including those with money to buy it.
In regards to internet fanbois most already don't like Lexus, refuse to acknowledge anything good
Lexus does and the LFA has blown their tiny brains.
I also have to give lots of credit to people who have accepted the LFA and understand why its such a great car. They traditionally would not like a Lexus but they see the merits of the LFA and can appreciate it coming to the market.
Oddly enough, I think a lot of people would be more accepting if Honda brought their NSX or if Infiniti built their Essence. To them Lexus still means fluffy and couch-like. The LFA should not be a Lexus. They just HATE Lexus. No matter if fact or fiction, Acura and Infiniti are the "sportier" brands and Lexus is the anti-sport brand. With F-sport, the IS F and now LFA that has changed. I now question what the other brands are here for?
Lexus is really changing perceptions here.
I applaud Nissan for bringing us the GT-R and I love it. Been a fan of GT-Rs since I could remember. The GT-R was the FIRST car to lap the Ring under 8 minutes.
What 15 years ago or so. Hopefully its selling well enough to make a R36.
Very true. The LFA of course is an odd piece. Lexus is one of the most recognized brands in the world. That said saying Lexus LFA will probably lose most people. While I am personally surprised by how many know about it (no doubt due to the summer advertising blitz) I figure most are not aware it is available, including those with money to buy it.
In regards to internet fanbois most already don't like Lexus, refuse to acknowledge anything good
Lexus does and the LFA has blown their tiny brains.
I also have to give lots of credit to people who have accepted the LFA and understand why its such a great car. They traditionally would not like a Lexus but they see the merits of the LFA and can appreciate it coming to the market.
Oddly enough, I think a lot of people would be more accepting if Honda brought their NSX or if Infiniti built their Essence. To them Lexus still means fluffy and couch-like. The LFA should not be a Lexus. They just HATE Lexus. No matter if fact or fiction, Acura and Infiniti are the "sportier" brands and Lexus is the anti-sport brand. With F-sport, the IS F and now LFA that has changed. I now question what the other brands are here for?
Lexus is really changing perceptions here.
that's why i said the car is a great admission ticket into the exotic world (black hole). i think it's partially why the car came out so hot and in such demand, but not the sales have completely died down
for the lfa, i think lexus doing a good job on the f brand, it's always a uphill fight as i predicted since beginning, but lexus has to do it anyway, if they were to get out of their current box. i think lexus is getting quite a bit of exposure regarding the whole f brand. as usual, positives and negatives, can't that for sure. but it does help to get the name mentioned often
10-14-10, 11:20 AM
#2771
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Very good points about the Spec-V. The hype has been overblown, and Nissan knows it. Marketing 'Ring times is not that effective anymore. It's ironic that the "king of 'Ring times" Nissan has not published the Spec V's 'Ring time.
Have Z and G sales increased noticeably since the GT-R debuted? I would say no.
Is Nissan losing money with the GT-R? No. Is it a limited-edition, exclusive car? No. Sure it can be argued it's a halo car for the Nissan brand, but I highly doubt it's a halo car for the Infiniti brand.
Even on the streets, whenever a GT-R drives by, it turns very few heads. Compare that to say a Lambo, or Ferrari, or even Audi R8 where it turns a lot of heads.
Again, I would strongly argue a regular person does not even know what the Nurburgring is.
Manufacturers like Ferrari and Lambo historically never used 'Ring times in marketing. Ferrari only very recently used it for the 599XX, but that's a marketing stunt since it was not a production car. Porsche never really marketed 'Ring times until very recently.
If you can show some proof that average people care or know about 'Ring times, I would be glad to see it.
Last but not least, this has already been stated enough times; the production LFA is not out yet. You've repeated this argument many times yourself. Maybe we should wait until the production car is ACTUALLY out before jumping on the hate Lexus bandwagon just because there is no 'Ring time
.
Will there be an official 'Ring time? Maybe. Even if there isn't, it doesn't really matter. The LFA turns heads wherever it goes, and it's a car show sensation. That already to me shows that it is a success.
Exactly. Carlos Ghosn had big sales expectations for the GT-R.
Once again, the point of the GT-R is not to sell the GT-R itself, but to lend its shine on its lesser siblings, the 370Z, G37, etc., and to show off Nissan's performance prowess. The same goes for halo cars of just about any car manufacturers. They usually contribute to very small percentages of the manufacturers' overall profits, but the manufacturers still bother to make such cars because they help raise brand image and sell their volume models, which in turn bring in the real profits. The sales of the halo cars themselves is therefore not that important.
Believe it or not, when Nissan first published their GT-R 'Ring record, it was all over the news, not just on automotive websites, but also on technology websites, financial websites and lifestyle websites. You definitely wouldn't see that kind of coverage if the lap time was published by some 3rd party magazine like AutoBild or SportAuto. Regular people may not understand how fast a 7:29 lap time is (in fact most of those non-automotive websites didn't even bother to mention the lap time), but the fact that they see news talking about how Nissan breaks some kind of performance record increases Nissan's reputation in these people's minds subconsciously. If Lexus would only publish in an official PR the sub-7:20 lap time the chief engineer was talking about, they would have easily enjoyed the same kind of lift in their performance reputation among regular people through such news coverage. Obviously this only works for manufacturers not previously known for extreme performances. Ferrari for example wouldn't get the same kind of news coverage if they broke a 'Ring record.
I see all upsides and no downside for Lexus really. There's absolutely no reason why they shouldn't do it. They have everything to gain and nothing to lose from publishing the record lap time. I'm only afraid, however, that they may have already missed the golden opportunity to publish the "record", as several other street-legal production cars have also done sub-7:20 lap times since the chief LFA engineer unofficially mentioned the LFA's sub-7:20 lap time. The significance and news-worthiness would therefore keep diminishing if Lexus keeps on delaying publishing the lap time, which would be a real shame and a huge waste.
Believe it or not, when Nissan first published their GT-R 'Ring record, it was all over the news, not just on automotive websites, but also on technology websites, financial websites and lifestyle websites. You definitely wouldn't see that kind of coverage if the lap time was published by some 3rd party magazine like AutoBild or SportAuto. Regular people may not understand how fast a 7:29 lap time is (in fact most of those non-automotive websites didn't even bother to mention the lap time), but the fact that they see news talking about how Nissan breaks some kind of performance record increases Nissan's reputation in these people's minds subconsciously. If Lexus would only publish in an official PR the sub-7:20 lap time the chief engineer was talking about, they would have easily enjoyed the same kind of lift in their performance reputation among regular people through such news coverage. Obviously this only works for manufacturers not previously known for extreme performances. Ferrari for example wouldn't get the same kind of news coverage if they broke a 'Ring record.
I see all upsides and no downside for Lexus really. There's absolutely no reason why they shouldn't do it. They have everything to gain and nothing to lose from publishing the record lap time. I'm only afraid, however, that they may have already missed the golden opportunity to publish the "record", as several other street-legal production cars have also done sub-7:20 lap times since the chief LFA engineer unofficially mentioned the LFA's sub-7:20 lap time. The significance and news-worthiness would therefore keep diminishing if Lexus keeps on delaying publishing the lap time, which would be a real shame and a huge waste.
Is Nissan losing money with the GT-R? No. Is it a limited-edition, exclusive car? No. Sure it can be argued it's a halo car for the Nissan brand, but I highly doubt it's a halo car for the Infiniti brand.
Even on the streets, whenever a GT-R drives by, it turns very few heads. Compare that to say a Lambo, or Ferrari, or even Audi R8 where it turns a lot of heads.
Again, I would strongly argue a regular person does not even know what the Nurburgring is.
Manufacturers like Ferrari and Lambo historically never used 'Ring times in marketing. Ferrari only very recently used it for the 599XX, but that's a marketing stunt since it was not a production car. Porsche never really marketed 'Ring times until very recently.
If you can show some proof that average people care or know about 'Ring times, I would be glad to see it.
Last but not least, this has already been stated enough times; the production LFA is not out yet. You've repeated this argument many times yourself. Maybe we should wait until the production car is ACTUALLY out before jumping on the hate Lexus bandwagon just because there is no 'Ring time
.Will there be an official 'Ring time? Maybe. Even if there isn't, it doesn't really matter. The LFA turns heads wherever it goes, and it's a car show sensation. That already to me shows that it is a success.
Exactly. Carlos Ghosn had big sales expectations for the GT-R.
10-14-10, 11:21 AM
#2772
I think its the first as well. The LFA is not the most powerful or the lightest. Quite frankly I've tried explaining the car to non-gear heads and they have no idea what I am talking about. Even to gear-heads, the question comes up "why does it cost so much" and quite frankly no matter my response, there will never be a right answer.
What is important, maybe even more important than the LFA itself is what will Lexus do next? If the LFA really going to be a new "halo" to the brand's sporting intentions? Will we get a much more expanded "F" Lineup? Will we get a more accessible sports car in the 100k range?
Or will it will some sort of one-of to show abilities of the brand that never truly trickle down.
There are revelations that what was learned of the IS F/LFA are in the CT some (seating position/sportier drive). That sounds great but its hard to get excited about a 140hp car. We need to see this in other cars.
Even to gear-heads, the question comes up "why does it cost so much" and quite frankly no matter my response, there will never be a right answer. What is important, maybe even more important than the LFA itself is what will Lexus do next? If the LFA really going to be a new "halo" to the brand's sporting intentions? Will we get a much more expanded "F" Lineup? Will we get a more accessible sports car in the 100k range?
Or will it will some sort of one-of to show abilities of the brand that never truly trickle down.
There are revelations that what was learned of the IS F/LFA are in the CT some (seating position/sportier drive). That sounds great but its hard to get excited about a 140hp car. We need to see this in other cars.
in my region, while i see more and more people knowing about the lfa, i have to be honest and say there are still a lot of people having no idea what the car is, and they go surprised when they see the lexus badge.
i think quite a while back a few of us have commented on it's more important about how lexus apply the research work done on the lfa on other and future lexus vehicles. if the lfa is nothing more than just a statement from lexus that "we can", then to be very honest i think it's a pretty expensive mistake coz' the car doesn't stand out right the way like veyron (it's a car that needs time to understand). it's worth much more if all the technology triggers down to future models, allowing lexus to think differently and be competitive in the performance market
10-14-10, 01:14 PM
#2773
Guest
Posts: n/a
Agreed. Good point Nissan never released the V Spec Nurburgring time since they probably had realized how their bluff was called when no one in the real world could replicate their lap times making journalists/testers question Nissan's credibility.
I have seen some awesome acceptance by European car owners as well Japanese enthusiasts as well.
However, still there is so much ignorance on the internet, it is not even funny. Many people actually refuse to believe that LFA actually for the first time in history of Lexus is actually out-performing ALL the major European competitors and winning the track lap times hands down. It will take time for people to start accepting reality.
An LFA outperforming a stripped down LP570-4 wearing slick Pirelli P Zero Corsa tires is astonishing feat.
I got sick of people always saying "A $375,000 car and not any faster than a $100,000 GTR". That was one of the most ignorant and uneducated claims one can make. Sad part is, almost 100% of these people are using the factory 0 - 60 mph (which happens to be the same for LFA and GTR) to make such a broad and general claim.
Now, with the hard numbers and facts of testers backing it up, the haters cannot deny since head to head numbers don't lie.
I have seen some awesome acceptance by European car owners as well Japanese enthusiasts as well.
However, still there is so much ignorance on the internet, it is not even funny. Many people actually refuse to believe that LFA actually for the first time in history of Lexus is actually out-performing ALL the major European competitors and winning the track lap times hands down. It will take time for people to start accepting reality.
An LFA outperforming a stripped down LP570-4 wearing slick Pirelli P Zero Corsa tires is astonishing feat.
I got sick of people always saying "A $375,000 car and not any faster than a $100,000 GTR". That was one of the most ignorant and uneducated claims one can make. Sad part is, almost 100% of these people are using the factory 0 - 60 mph (which happens to be the same for LFA and GTR) to make such a broad and general claim.
Now, with the hard numbers and facts of testers backing it up, the haters cannot deny since head to head numbers don't lie.
Hell when I tell people about my GSh they are like "a hybrid Lexus"? When I explain mods on the 2GS most are like " I had no idea you could do that to a Lexus". So nothing to hate
Now is there a lot of Lexus hate/ignorance? Yes. I used to go about defending it on different forums but in retrospect that is just a waste of time. For every 1 person that says "oh, thanks didn't know that" there are 20 that say "Lexus still sucks you are a fanboi". Don't get too upset about the internet talk. Most people trashing it drive old cars, don't got to the track and think a Civic EK hatch is the pinnacle of automotive engineering.
yup, i personally know of at least 2 former gtr owners. they got the car coz' of the price and the raw performance, but they quickly got rid of their cars (literally sold them for whatever) when they learned about all the maintenance cost.
that's why i said the car is a great admission ticket into the exotic world (black hole). i think it's partially why the car came out so hot and in such demand, but not the sales have completely died down
for the lfa, i think lexus doing a good job on the f brand, it's always a uphill fight as i predicted since beginning, but lexus has to do it anyway, if they were to get out of their current box. i think lexus is getting quite a bit of exposure regarding the whole f brand. as usual, positives and negatives, can't that for sure. but it does help to get the name mentioned often
that's why i said the car is a great admission ticket into the exotic world (black hole). i think it's partially why the car came out so hot and in such demand, but not the sales have completely died down
for the lfa, i think lexus doing a good job on the f brand, it's always a uphill fight as i predicted since beginning, but lexus has to do it anyway, if they were to get out of their current box. i think lexus is getting quite a bit of exposure regarding the whole f brand. as usual, positives and negatives, can't that for sure. but it does help to get the name mentioned often
It doesn't help that the most expensive Nissan costs more than any Infiniti. Adds to the confusion. Great points about the LFA exposure. It is bringing a lot of light to Lexus. It has people TALKING about LEXUS even if its negative.
I'm sure we have both gotten tons of questions about the car. It has elevated the brand, Lexus offers an exotic supercar. that's exactly why i think it's somewhat pointless to "defend" or "explain" about the lfa, because in some way it's sort of nontraditional, so it's really up to people to read and explore and understand. you almost have to look at the vehicle in a different way to appreciate it.
in my region, while i see more and more people knowing about the lfa, i have to be honest and say there are still a lot of people having no idea what the car is, and they go surprised when they see the lexus badge.
i think quite a while back a few of us have commented on it's more important about how lexus apply the research work done on the lfa on other and future lexus vehicles. if the lfa is nothing more than just a statement from lexus that "we can", then to be very honest i think it's a pretty expensive mistake coz' the car doesn't stand out right the way like veyron (it's a car that needs time to understand). it's worth much more if all the technology triggers down to future models, allowing lexus to think differently and be competitive in the performance market
in my region, while i see more and more people knowing about the lfa, i have to be honest and say there are still a lot of people having no idea what the car is, and they go surprised when they see the lexus badge.
i think quite a while back a few of us have commented on it's more important about how lexus apply the research work done on the lfa on other and future lexus vehicles. if the lfa is nothing more than just a statement from lexus that "we can", then to be very honest i think it's a pretty expensive mistake coz' the car doesn't stand out right the way like veyron (it's a car that needs time to understand). it's worth much more if all the technology triggers down to future models, allowing lexus to think differently and be competitive in the performance market
Jay Leno was talking about how McLaren is a real car guys brand. Most don't know what it is, that they raced and about the F1. That is APPEALING to him and to others. Not putting down any exotic brand but to him Ferrari/Lambo are cars for people with money that want the brand. McLaren is for people that truly want the car and knows about cars.
The LFA is one of those "Guy/Gear-head/auto nut" cars. That is why the STIG likes it so much. It defies convention, it drives raw, it lacks the badge and yet hangs with the best of them.
We are truly lucky to have the status quo leading the way like Ferrari, Lambo and now cars like the Zonda, LFA, R8s, hell GT2 RS, McLaren very long name car I can't remember
, the Koseiengiesgg I spelled wrong, etc etc.
