mannye

MPG BS:

I am sick and tired of seeing all these ads for hybrid cars all proud of 35 mpg when for years there have been efficient diesel cars in Europe that get 60 or more mpg on the highway.

Also why oh why won't some car company look into using the same technology as trains for cars? A miniature version of a very high efficiency diesel engine running a small generator that charges the batteries and I bet the range of all these cars could be doubled as well as the mpg.

ENVIRONMENTAL BS:

And also it steams me up that everyone says its good for the environment to have a hybrid when you could seriously get into a 1975 Buick LeSabre and drive it for 100K miles and still not produce more hydrocarbons than it took to make the hybrid car. Not saying no one should buy new cars...just don't say it's good for the environment, because it's not. Bicycles are good for the environment.

In my opinion, electric should have started with super luxury cars like the RR or Bentley sedan. What's cooler that a silent luxo-barge? Isn't that what Lexus has spent millions of dollars trying to do with the internal combustion engine?

OK.. done. I look forward to your angry letters.

neurocity

iTrader: (17)

One of the reasons for super efficient cars not to be sold in the US, is road taxes are added to fuel prices. Yous tart selling cars that buy less fuel. That's less money for the roads. Less money for the government.

Stormforge

the fact is, building anything these days will be linked to increased pollution in one form or another. as long as society is interested in consumption (rather than conservation), your comment should be applied to everything that is man-made (and not just directed at hybrids alone).


apparently, there's no demand for electric super luxury cars...

http://www.rushlane.com/rolls-royce-...m-1235083.html

and yes, the lexus flagship, LS600hL, is a silent luxo-barge. it may not be super luxury like a RR or bentley, but it is silent and it is luxury.

nantang

It takes energy and thus carbon emissions to make ANY new car, hybrid or not. Being green should not mean having to put up with a clunker from 1975 that's probably not going to go 100,000 miles without repair bills that might as well add up to buying a Lexus.

I do agree that the U.S. is not paying enough attention to diesel by a long shot. At the risk of adding to the flames, however, I would postulate that a hybrid diesel/electric power plant might be the way to go towards making 80mpg luxury cars possible--unless you're willing and able to go all-electric with Tesla-style longer range batteries.

joedaddy1

iTrader: (1)

i like our hybrid during heavy traffic and drive-thru's... the engine is ALMOST 100% efficient.. kinda.. u get the idea...

if I actually moved a LOT.. diesel would be no brainer..

like.. LA bumper to bumper traffic.. isn't a hybrid better?

GoGiantsNJ

MANNYE I agree with you. I wish Lexus would build cars and Crossovers with diesel engines. I'm reading about the VW diesel cars achieving over 50 mpg. Here in South Jersey diesel fuel is cheaper than premium gas.
Please Lexus give us diesels. I won't chance buying VW,Audi, BMW, or MB. I just don't trust those brands to be as reliable as my IS,and RX has been.

DFGeneer

Diesels lack refinement and feel cheap and compromised.
Modern diesels with start/stop system are a joke - they literally hop around when start/stoping at a trafic light. That is not premium. Has nothing to do with premium. Premium is about smoothness, refinement, serenity.

MPG-wise diesels may win by small margin, but only on the highway. And they will loose by a big margin in the city.
But keep in mind that gallon of diesel contains 15-20% more energy, i.e. if a hybrid and diesel have same MPG, this means the hybrid is 15-20% more energy efficient already. Same numbers apply to CO2 emissions.

Hybrids are cleaner - they emit many many times less nitrous oxides and soot. And those are the real polutants.

And a new hybdid driven 100k miles will definately have lower carbon footprint than an old low-MPG car driven the same mileage. The CO2 equivalent of the energy required to produce a new car is only about 15-20% of the total CO2 emitted during its lifecycle.

lobuxracer

iTrader: (2)

And yet global commerce of all kinds is powered by CI engines, primarily burning diesel fuel from cars to trucks to railroads to container ships, commerce is all diesel powered because it provides the most efficient method of converting a carbon fuel to kinetic energy. Hybrids and diesels don't have the same mileage, nor do they have the same emissions footprint when they are being manufactured. Building batteries is not environmentally pretty no matter how you want to slice it, especially when you consider what happens after the battery has served its use and needs to be retired/recycled.

In an ideal world, we'd have diesel/hydraulic hybrids - the most efficient power production with the least losses in operation (much lower weight and complexity) and very low environmental impact from cradle to grave. UPS in the US is doing this today with some of their fleet because it makes a LOT of sense for them.

DFGeneer

True, diesel is more efficient in a steady load operation - ships, trains, trucks, with typical thermodynamic efficiency of up to 43% at full load.
But when it comes to real world street traffic, the hybrids can easily have an edge - 38% efficiency from the Atkinson cycle engine at full load, plus the fact that the engine runs mostly at full load (i.e. 38%), plus the recycled kinetic energy from each braking event.
The diesel efficieny can easily drop to 0% when you are coasting before a stop.

Diesels will never benefit as much from hybridization, since they don't have pumping losses at low loads, need constant operating temperature to be "clean" and take alot more energy to restart due to the high compression.
Also, diesels will always have carcinogenic tailpipe soot emissions while still having batteries with much shorter lifespan than the hybrid batteries.

Have yet to see a feasible hydraulic hybrid.

lobuxracer

iTrader: (2)

Wartsilla gets 52% TE from their container ship engines. They are the global leader in efficient ship engine design and manufacture.

United Parcel Service is operating hydraulic hybrids today for local delivery trucks. It's working for them.

darkdream

That does not explain why the government could not tax gas higher like they do in Europe.

Hoovey689

iTrader: (16)

Fast forward almost two years and we have LaFerrari, P1, and 918 Spyder

kphu

iTrader: (8)

I understand the argument for a hybrid is less pollution, however, what gets me is that the cost of the hybrid is a lot more then the traditional gas models. Over the course of 5 or even 10 years, the savings in fuel doesn't even cover the cost of paying more for a hybrid so in a consumer stand point why buy a hybrid only to dish out more money to the manufacturer? If manufacturers really want consumers to go "Green" then they need to make the pricing more competitive.

LEXUSBOY85

Just lookup the VW XL1, with an efficiency over 300mpg, you change your oil more often than fill her up... As long as the corporate fascists elite run the country, we will never have access to the best technologies in OUR interests... End of debate

Hoovey689

iTrader: (16)

Some hybrids aren't as bad as others. ESh vs ES is roughly $2900 more but the RXh vs RX is roughly $6700 more and don't get me started on the GSh vs GS which nearly $12800

Ok one more for fun..

LSh vs LS.. $48000


These are all differences between base MSRP's btw