Percy

Found this while looking at audio asylum.

"
The D260 Esotech I have had the pleasure with.
As for the T330 D Esotar and the older D28AF

The D 260 is very nice...give it a 9.0 to 9.3 easy...

You can cross that baby over at very low frequencies, and not worry about burnout. They have useable response
down to 1800 ..even at 6 dB / octave. On the "torcher" test... as in heat... No reasonable soul should blow it. It can
even handle 20% clipping...with no ill effects. All the Dynaudio Domes are very rugged. I once (accidently)crossed
over a D28 AF at 90 HZ (!) and put about 200 watts into it. I thought the tweeter sounded a little muddy, and went
over to see why...and the dome was moving a good 3/16 of an inch. The tweeter did not blow...nor did it get out of
calibration.

My favorite dome is the T330D Esotar. The best way to really make it sing..is to build a separate enclosure for
it..and cross down low at 1400 6 dB/octave. They are fantastic. They are not cheap.

I look forward to testing the revelators out... from first glance...I do not care for the recess of the dome....It would
give a small amount of horn loading to the structure...and it may have a more ragged low frequency response
between 2 and 2.5 K....but the truth is in the listening.....(anyone got any samples???) RBP "

Surprising that the tweeter would survive THAT much power through it! Chalk one up for the Dyns.

Percy

Adam_Peng

Percy,

We had a discussion before about the car version of T330D, the MD330D. Except the protection bar, I don't see any difference between T330D & MD330D. Even the spec. looks similar. What are the differences between them?

Percy

Adam,

Only thing I could really see is the adhesive is different, possibly the dome geometry is slightly different also. Otherwise the specs are EXACTLY the same. Qts, etc...all identical to the home version. It's like the same tweeter, only using a different glue.

The home version is built very rugged as it's used in studio/pro applications also as studio monitors. It's considered THE worlds most accurate tweeter, bar none. And they now have the Esotar 2 version out for their Confidence speakers. Cheapest Confidence (c2) is priced out at 12 grand. Different tweeter material there too...hopefully it'll surface into car audio in the future.

I have a set at home (esotar t330d's) and nothing else that I've listened to even remotely touches them. Transparency, air, detail, resolving power...simply incredible. They put the Infinity EMITS to shame (EMIT R, EMIT N, Renaissance 90 EMIT), trounce on the titanium based domes (inverted or non inverted), and make most soft dome tweets sound bad by comparison. My source unit is a modified Sony SCD-1 sacd player with M Series M1500 (equivalent to the Sigma Retro cable) interconnects and the M2.4 speaker wire. Makes for some very nice sounds!

The MD100 tweeter does about 50 percent of what the T330D/MD330D does. Same neutrality, but not the same resolving power or any of the other goodies. The MD330D is priced at 449 EACH. Got the info from Dynaudio today...visited their office.

Percy

Adam_Peng

Thanks for the info., Percy,

This MD330D/MW150 combo will be my upgrade project next year....Currently, I am still working on my CD/pre-amp section.

Adam

stevie

>It's considered THE worlds most accurate tweeter, bar none.

Have you heard the Scan-Speak 1" tweeters, Percy?

Stevie

Percy

Stevie,

Haven't heard them for very long...just in passing, but do remember that they didn't have the "air" that the esotars did, but the SS Revelators (alpine version) are fine speakers. They're used in the Alpine F#1 Status speaker system, something that isn't generally well known. I do believe it's Alpines high end "x" speakers. Scan Speak Revelators that have been modded for automotive use.

I'm still very leary of using home speakers in a car audio setup. For the home audio, the SS Revelators are excellent drive units. Don't know how long they'll last in the auto enviroment. Plus I saw their measurement...far field. Wonder how they'll do with near field.

I'd say they'll do about 80 percent of what the esotars will do. A VERY tough feat! Great bang for the buck though.

Percy

BabaBooey

If the $200 a piece Revelators are a "good bang for your buck tweet", I'd hate to see what the Esotar's cost.

Percy

Bababooey,

They're in the "HOLY FRICKEN S$$T" range. About 900 for the MD330D's!

Strange thing...before Dyn discontinued the T330D (home version), they were selling for 649 per pair. Well, they're not actually discontinued as they're still making them, but Dyn wanted to get out of the OEM business and concentrate more on the home speakers and car speakers rather than selling their raw drivers as the raw drivers only accounted for 10 percent of their total sales.

Percy

Rico's Revenge

Percy, I've decided to go ahead and do the kicks now instead of waiting until the winter. I was leaning toward the Morel 3" for the tweeter part (still keeping my Quarts for mid and mid-bass)but this may be right up my alley. Have you any comparisons between the two?

Todd

Percy

Hi Todd!

Do you have any info on the Morel 3 incher? I do know that Morel liscenses some technology from Dyn. From reputation (and high end home speakers), Morel is an excellent choice. Eggleston Works uses them and they're quite highly rated.

Haven't listened to the Morel tweets, but they should be quite good.

Percy

Rico's Revenge

I only have the info that I've seen on the internet, and i saw a review (I want to say in Car Audio) that gave it high marks. i was looking towards that direction because they play low as well. After looking at the pic that Adam put up, they look similar as well, so I though maybe there was a connection.

Todd

PS...I'm going to use a three-way set up, the tweet and a 5 1/4" in the kick and since I have been getting killer marks in the mid-bass category, I'll keep the 5 1/4" in the door as well. Just cross it over differently.

Percy

Todd,

Looks like two different versions of tweeters available. Definitely Dyn liscensed. Was it the large tweet you were looking at? Some very good specs...and Morel, like Dyn, is quite rugged. You'll definitely have to retune as they're not as "hot" as the titanium tweets, but the dispersion pattern is quite a bit wider. Might help with a few more points. Crossing the tweet at 1.5khz should be fun! Stick with at least 12db/oct with the Morels. For some reason, only the Dyns can seem to handle 6db/oct...and it does it quite well if it's done right.

Are you running an active xover?

Percy

Adam_Peng

Todd,

Which Morel tweeters are you referring to?

Morel MDT-33


or


Morel Supremo

stevie

I'd avoid the Morel MDT33. I have used these and, although they measure well, their sound is good but nothing special. Without paying silly money, your best choice is probably a Scan-Speak 2905/9500. These have a very natural sound and cost around 150 dollars a pair. There are a number of very good HF units at less than this but nothing that comes close to their quality.

I tested the Revelators when they first came out and thought they sounded worse than the standard Scan-Speak tweeters. I was later told that they had to be run in for a few days. Still, once you try to find something better than the 2905, your costs zoom into the stratosphere for greatly dimishing returns.

You'll find Scan-Speak tweeters in 9 out of 10 high end hi-fi speakers. Although the name isn't known in car audio, I seem to recall that last year's European SQ soundoff champion used the Scan-Speak neodymiums.

The Eton ER4 ribbon sounds better than any dome tweeter on the market - by a fair margin. It is quite expensive and also relatively large. But if you want the ultimate, that's probably it.

Your setup sounds quite interesting, Todd. What exactly is it?

Stevie

Percy

Stevie,

I've tried ribbons before in my setup. EMIT-N, EMIT-R (the round ones), EMIT from Renaissance 90's and also a couple of other ribbons. EMIM (Electro Magnetic Induction Midrange) and their EMIM - L (For Lower midbass down to 150hz), both out of the now extinct Infinity Epsilon and Beta home speakers. The drivers for the EMIM were quite similar to the Eton, but had quite a bit more surface area, about the size of a 5x7 inch picture. The L-EMIM was just plain HUGE. Weighed in at close to 20 pounds PER driver. Size of 8 x 14, or somewhere close to that.

The ribbons always seemed to have a "metallic" sound to the treble, which got really annoying, especially on "s" sounds from female vocals. Brass (horns, trumpets, etc) sounded acceptable. Dispersion SUCKED. You had to be lined up directly in front of the driver since the magnets acted as a sort of "directional vertical blind". Move a little bit left or right and the sound quality began to nosedive.

Cost of these ribbons weren't cheap. The EMIM (small version) sold for 250 each. L-EMIM's were stratospheric...775 each. Then I saved up the bucks for the T330D's and put them head to head against Infinitys best ribbons. T330D wasted them by a LARGE margin. No metallic sound, no thinness and plenty of extension and dynamics. The T330D's would rate as a reference 10 while the ribbons would be down in the 3 to 4 range.

And to think the Infinity Epsilon was priced at 15 grand.

I've also listened to ribbons from the Sony XES lineup. XESH50 ribbon driver that was constructed out of silver rather than aluminum. These were disappointing also. Metallic sound, though slightly better than their aluminum Infinity counterparts, but not by much.

Hopefully the Etons won't have the metallic sound, but I haven't found a ribbon that hasn't had this "signature" to them.

Percy