bobsobi

This thread has the whole story. I've also attached the letter I sent to the VP of Lexus Customer Services that you may find useful as a template if you decide to pursue satisfaction from Lexus corporate.

I can't say how the 2010 ES ML system sounds; I haven't had an opportunity to audition it. It's possible that along with discrete 5.1 DVD-A capability, the EQ has been improved, but I think it's unlikely. Ultimately it depends on your own ears and tastes.

Bob

mangialo

Hey bobsobi, thanks much for the your thread and a copy of the letter you sent to Lexus corporate. I had already drafted a two page letter, but now I will make revisions. Also, knowing who to contact will save me a lot of time. I am definitely going to pursue this. Even though my dealer gave me a 30K service credit after some grueling negotiating, I am still so displeased with the sound. After special ordering my 2010 IS 250 with the ML system, I was like a kid being told on Christmas Day that he had to wait to the middle of May for Santa to arrive only to be given a broken toy at the end.

Also, I did not know that there was a way for me to burn my own DVD-A's not to mention being able to make test discs of separate channels. Any guidance on this would be great.

bobsobi

To work with the content of your own DVD-As (if you want to re-EQ them, for example), you first need to rip them -- I use DVD Audio Extractor or DVDAExplorer. For multitrack editing, Audacity is a good choice. To create DVD-As, I use HD-Audio Solo, but it can't do MLP compression, so if 96/24 5.1 is important to you, you'll have to go with something that can encode MLP, but MLP encoders are really pricey. If you want to make your own DTS discs, you'll need a DTS encoder such as Surcode.

I also recommend making back-ups of your DVD-As -- DVDFab does a great job cloning them.

ROBRX31

While parked go to DVD settings--change the auto play to off if it is on or on if it is off--Unfortunately no one setting works for all DVD, so you have to switch back and forth.

alk3997

That's funny - I was just at the Lexus dealership trying to troubleshoot the DVD-Audio and we came to the same conclusion. Turn off the Auto Play function to make the Sheryl Crow DVD-A disc work. If Auto Play was enabled, the disc would play the first 6 seconds and repeat the first 3 seconds, then repeat the first 3 seconds, then repeat the first 3 seconds, etc. With Auto Play off, the disc played fine. Sounded great in the 2011 LS, GS and LX - all with Mark Levinson.

So, this appears to be a firmware/software bug with the Mark Levinson units. When I get a chance I'll try a few more DVD-Audio discs.

If you are looking for the Auto Play function, it is under DVD-Audio Settings and is a line that says "Auto Play". Select that and then press "Off" and then "Save". If you do not press "Save", the option will not be changed (I forgot that the first time we tried changing the option).

The 2011 Mark Levinsons sound so much better than the 2008 editions. I really was amazed and pleased that I could hear actual 5.1-channel sound from the 2011's.

alk3997

Also Wavelab creates DVD-Audio discs. It's a bit more of a professional DAW editor but there are more options in Wavelab than Solo.

bobsobi

Yes, Wavelab has more options, but it should, at more than four times the price of HD-Audio Solo Ultra. Solo Ultra has a few nice features of its own -- it can do a pretty good job of upmixing stereo content to 5.1, and it will also let you play with Blu-ray authoring, if you're so inclined.

This is why I decided to go with DTS-CDs. Faster load and track access times, and no hassling with the nanny-car screen lock-out or DVD-A incompatibilities. The impossibility of playing six DVD-As straight through on a road trip is just plain ridiculous! And while DTS-CD not the high-resolution of DVD-A, the quiet Lexus interior still isn't the ideal critical listening environment, nor the ML such a high-end system, where the difference is really noticeable.

alk3997

Having created many a home DTS-CD, I understand. I use them for our home jukebox (nothing like having a 5.1-channel jukebox). But, if you already have the DVD-Audio disc, it would be preferable to just drop it into the ML disc changer and have it play properly, since creating a DTS-CD takes time. I could be quite happy with DVD-Audio discs, even if the load times are slow.

What I was truly impressed with last night was how close to center on the EQ all of the ML systems were. The 2008 ML models were nowhere as near. Much much better system now (other than the firmware issue).

bobsobi

Well, there's the rub. The '07-'09 ML can't play DVD-As in discrete 5.1!

When I was pursuing a resolution to my car's ML issues, I had occasion to play my test DVD-A in a 2010 LX. Besides discrete 5.1 DVD-A capability, I did notice an improvement in the FR, although at the time I attributed that to the difference between the LX and ES cabin acoustics and the LX not having the same ML as the ES (19 vs. 14 speakers, more power). The emphasis in the 160-320Hz octave was still present but not as severe.

Have there been sonic improvements from the '07-'09 to the '10+ ML? I would hope so! (Judging from the history of threads here regarding Lexus audio systems, however, continual improvement doesn't necessarily seem to be a given.) But if I got a new Lexus today with the same head unit, I'd still drag my gear into it and do a spectrum analysis for a re-EQ, because I'd still be making DTS-CDs until the time Lexus offers a bug-free DVD-A player with no screen lock-out!

alk3997

Can you provide the title/artist for some DVD-Audio discs that failed with Auto Play "Off"? We ran a large (as DVD-Audio goes) number of discs last night and about 1/3 failed with Auto Play "On" but none failed with Auto Play "Off". We did this on an ML unit in a 2011 LX.

For those who might be making their own discs, none of the Wavelab generated discs failed with either Auto Play "On" or "Off" and Capital-owned discs were the worst at failing with Auto Play "On".

The other funny thing was that the "Auto Play" function never seemed to do its actual purpose. Even with it "Off", the discs still played when inserted. I never had to hit play even with the function "Off".


Andy

mangialo

Thanks, ROBRX31
It worked! None of the "geniuses" at Lexus could figure out that out. I can't believe that I spent $570 for the Precision Society plug and play module to enable me to play DVD-A's and now I can do it without it and still have GPS-work. Well I guess it is still useful when using the keypad on the head unit screen rather than fumbling with my phone, but definitely not worth $570 including install.

2010 Lexus IS 250

mangialo

When listening to DVD-A's, I turn the DSP-Surround to off. It sounds more distinct with it off. With it on it sounds somewhat muddled. With DVD-A's that are recorded in 5.1 I think DSP-Surround is not necessary.

I also noticed that when I set the DSP-Surround to off under the DVD Audio Settings, it did not effect the CD settings which remained in the on position.

Wondering what other people have found or recommend.

2010 Lexus IS 250

alk3997

That's correct - if you want closer to what the recording engineer intended for the output, turn anything that tries to add surround effects to off. You are adding surround to surround and that usually muddies the audio.

Of course there are reasons you might want some of the DSP effects, such as listening in the back seat.

And, yes, even DVD-Video discs have different settings than DVD-Audio discs. So, it doesn't surprise me that CD would have different settings.

Andy

bobsobi

The unit is designed to retain your preferred DSP setting for each disc format.

In the case of discrete 5.1 source material, the proper DSP setting is definitely 'off'.

sporla3

thanks to all
I stopped paying attention to the DVD-A issue till today. I turned off the auto play and the discs that didn't play (or played a few seconds to be exact) now play. And, I was curious about the surround setting and turned it off and noticed much better separation. I still have much more separation and quality on my home stereo but I can definitely live with the ML now. I only wished they would start making more DVD-Audio discs.