lomarica

I have a 07 ES350 with the ML. The manual says it will not play super audio cd's (sacd is a 5.1 recording many home audio enthusiasts have and seems to be more popular than dvd-a in the high end market)

as I have sacd disk for my home stereo but no dvd-a disks I gave the sacd a try and it works.

my question is has anyone compared the dvd-a to sacd.? The Dire Straits Brother in Arms sacd sounds truely amazing and is my reference for both home and in the ES.

I also note the Mobile Fidelity high end cd's do not play in ML. The manual states the ML will not play transparent cd's, the MF disks are indeed see thru but I have other "high end" cd's that are transparent and the ML does play them. So the ML does not seem to be consistent with the disks it can play.

any comments?

Percy

They both sound very good. Now if we take the "purist" 2 channel form and play it against a very well engineered CD (also 2 channel), same player, same output circuitry and keep as many of the variables the same, guess who would win?

Answer - they all would. You would be VERY VERY hard pressed to tell the CD vs DVDA vs SACD, provided that they are all the same type of master recording and engineering. I've listened to high end audio discs that weren't well engineered (sounds silly I know) and some CDs that were excellently engineered.

Some of the high end players route the SACD signal to different gains and outputs, but if they're routed to the same ones as the CD, you wouldn't be able to tell the difference on the same recording. It's not a matter of the amount of bits, or the data rate (as long as it meets Nyquist, it's good), it's the actual master recording and the analog output stages that the signal has to go through.

It's still quite disturbing that ML doesn't play a higher percentage of the available CD/DVD/etc out there. All they would have to do is use a high end pickup and transport. My little Playstation 3 plays more formats (burned CDs of various types/DVD/etc) than the ML.

bobsobi

lomarica: As far as the ML system playing SACDs, I have feeling that you're probably talking about a hybrid SACD, and you're listening to the CD layer. None of my non-hybrid SACDs play in my ML.

Percy: I was going to post this in the 5.1 thread I started, as I'm still waiting for final disposition in the form of a response from Lexus corporate, but I did get a return call from someone at Harman Becker who filled me in about the '07 - '09 ML system.

Turns out the amp has a lot to do with the system's behavior, as it's linked to the head unit via S/PDIF. They apparently were working with certain cost constraints, and the ability to play discrete 5.1 from DVD-As was a casualty of the maximum throughput the unit was designed to handle. So, the system can play both DD and DTS in discrete 5.1, but it can't handle the higher throughput that 5.1 LPCM requires -- it's downmixed to stereo.

As with all electronic products, though, there are revisions and improvements, and the 2010 ML system now can play DVD-As in discrete 5.1!

Percy

Bob - thanks for the heads up! It really doesn't take that much to improve the data throughput, maybe a few dollars worth of parts and some programming. Really makes me think they did the budgeting down to a tenth of a penny.

Did they mention how they were going to resolve the issue with your ML system?

lomarica

ok thanks

I didn't think about the sacd disk playing the hybrid layer, it still sounds great either way

Bobsobi,
I borrowed my father inlaw's acura RL dvd-a demo disk and is has part where it plays front left, front right and rear as discrete channels. It worked but the rear was both left and right at the same time and the volume seemed pretty low, The demo disk commentary stated the rear was stereo so it was not recorded as being rear left and rear right discretely which actually doesn't make any sense for a 5.1 demo.

Also I played my mobile fidelity disk on my home player and it didn't work either it turns out the disk has a big crack in it so that is why it didn't play in the ML.

One more thing, do you know how the satellite music sounds quality wise compared to an "average" cd? I had a Lexus loaner with sat non ML and it sounded very tiny could not really listen to it for any length of time.

Finally from now on I am just going to ENJOY THE MUSIC regardless of master recording etc... actually I just made a new mp3 disk and it sounds very very good. I am 100% satisfied listening to it. I made it using window media player and recorded at 320kps.

bobsobi

I am still waiting for a return call. My initial complaint centered on my DualDiscs refusing to play 5.1, my 5.1-only discs playing with missing channels, and the generally inferior sound reproduction. There was also an issue with the rear deck subwoofer occasionally bottoming out with nasty clacks and rattles.

I figured the dollar amount of the ML system on my 3-year lease was approximately $700, so that's what I asked for in reimbursement. The dealership replaced the subwoofer, and Lexus corporate's counteroffer was a letter of credit for $500 worth of service and/or parts.

However, their misrepresentation of the discrete 5.1 capability is the new wrinkle, and so I'm looking for better compensation. If I don't get satisfaction by phone, I plan to paper the upper ranks of Lexus' corporate offices with a firmly polite letter of demand that they honor their commitment to the "pursuit of perfection".

bobsobi

I don't have satellite, so I can't speak to how it would sound in a Lexus with or w/o ML. From my experience in others' cars, I'd say it's better than FM, but not on par with a well-engineered CD.