Vaistech - new VML Feedback!!!!
03-06-09, 03:01 PM
#1
Lead Lap
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Vaistech - new VML Feedback!!!!
Well all,
I am in the unique position of having owned 2, Third generation GS vehicles... my first was an '06 GS300 with Nav/ML and my 2nd is an 08 GS460 with Nav/ML. In my first vehicle, I had the SL2i installed for IPOD integration, and it sounded great - better than most OEM systems, IMHO.
When I purchased my new vehicle, I wanted to take a step UP in sound quality.. I seriously considered all the bells and whistles of going with the SL2vi for video from my IPOD, but decided all digital sound quality is far superior (and I could always play a DVD if I wanted).
It is NOT common knowledge, but in the ML system, Lexus goes digital all the way to the ML amp! There is no preamp out used between the headunit and the amp. This is a great design, which is horrifically marginalized by analogue outputs from the IPOD IMHO.
So... along comes Vaistech with the VML unit... the unit itself is not much different than the other units in its use of factory harnesses, etc., but that's where it ends. It's essentailly a USB interface as opposed to a proprietary IPOD interface. This allows you to use ANY USB mass storage device from a late model IPOD (in drive mode), USB storage drives, memory sticks, etc., OR, you can even use the built-in SATA hard drive interface for built-in tunes (similar to the hard drive built-into the later LX570's and LS460's).
However you slice it, once you get passed used to the navigatoin anomalies introduced by LEXUS (not Vaistech) due to motion sensors, etc., this is BY FAR the best OEM audio integration kit available...
The Vaistech unit has it's own processor, plays MP3's natively, does not introduce any inexpensive or portable "op amp" like analogue amplification, the sound is not colored or distorted the way an "aux in" via headphone out would, this is just THE way to go....
Ironically, it's also much less expensive than the alternative approaches but, IMHO, far superior in it's flexibility!
I know that Vaistech is also working on some very signfiicant "band aids" to overcome some of the limitations of the Lexus navigation, but these limitations are not differerent than any other available integration kit for Lexus and certainly no different than the SLxx series.
I would highly recommend this unit! It does ABSOLUTELY sound better than IPOD ---> SL2xI in the exact same vehicle setup....
Enjoy!!!
I am in the unique position of having owned 2, Third generation GS vehicles... my first was an '06 GS300 with Nav/ML and my 2nd is an 08 GS460 with Nav/ML. In my first vehicle, I had the SL2i installed for IPOD integration, and it sounded great - better than most OEM systems, IMHO.
When I purchased my new vehicle, I wanted to take a step UP in sound quality.. I seriously considered all the bells and whistles of going with the SL2vi for video from my IPOD, but decided all digital sound quality is far superior (and I could always play a DVD if I wanted).
It is NOT common knowledge, but in the ML system, Lexus goes digital all the way to the ML amp! There is no preamp out used between the headunit and the amp. This is a great design, which is horrifically marginalized by analogue outputs from the IPOD IMHO.
So... along comes Vaistech with the VML unit... the unit itself is not much different than the other units in its use of factory harnesses, etc., but that's where it ends. It's essentailly a USB interface as opposed to a proprietary IPOD interface. This allows you to use ANY USB mass storage device from a late model IPOD (in drive mode), USB storage drives, memory sticks, etc., OR, you can even use the built-in SATA hard drive interface for built-in tunes (similar to the hard drive built-into the later LX570's and LS460's).
However you slice it, once you get passed used to the navigatoin anomalies introduced by LEXUS (not Vaistech) due to motion sensors, etc., this is BY FAR the best OEM audio integration kit available...
The Vaistech unit has it's own processor, plays MP3's natively, does not introduce any inexpensive or portable "op amp" like analogue amplification, the sound is not colored or distorted the way an "aux in" via headphone out would, this is just THE way to go....
Ironically, it's also much less expensive than the alternative approaches but, IMHO, far superior in it's flexibility!
I know that Vaistech is also working on some very signfiicant "band aids" to overcome some of the limitations of the Lexus navigation, but these limitations are not differerent than any other available integration kit for Lexus and certainly no different than the SLxx series.
I would highly recommend this unit! It does ABSOLUTELY sound better than IPOD ---> SL2xI in the exact same vehicle setup....
Enjoy!!!
03-06-09, 04:17 PM
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thanks for the good info of the VLM. I'm seriously considering one for the reasons you state. Can you give me some feedback on my topic lower in the thread about how one navigates the VLM when the car is in motion and the screen is in "lexus lockout" mode? If you can't see the artist/album/titles on the screen, how can you select a song to hear from thousands on a usb drive or whatever source you plug in?
Also, can you tell us where you mounted the unit and where you mounted the usb plug? I was thinkiing of the usb in the ashtray but I can figure out where to put the unit where it is reasonably accessible in case I need to remove it to flash a new firmware/
THANKS
Also, can you tell us where you mounted the unit and where you mounted the usb plug? I was thinkiing of the usb in the ashtray but I can figure out where to put the unit where it is reasonably accessible in case I need to remove it to flash a new firmware/
THANKS
03-07-09, 03:31 PM
#3
Lead Lap
Thread Starter
DD: Couple things:
1) The Lockout issue is a LEXUS issue and will be a problem no matter what you play, be it a CD with a ton of MP3's on it, etc. It's Lexus' limited faith in society, and yes, it's annoying. But... that being said, there are ways around it:
2) VML will release a firmware update that allows for an indexing of sorts, from what I understand. You can Index by playlist or folder Letters, i.e., A-C, D-F, etc. I don't know when it is going to be released, but I know they are working on it. I don't believe GENRE navigation will be available, but I have gotten around THIS by creating playlists for my Genre's...
3) I mounted the unit on the right side of the car, under the carpet, by the center console and ran a USB extension cable from the VML to the glovebox. As firmware updates are handled via the USB port, versus the SLi's and SL2's plugin USB module which necessitated direct access to the unit, you can mount the VML wherever you would like and not need to access it ever again!
The only way to TRULY get around the lockout mode is to install a nav bypass module, and I for one, do not find this a comfortable alternative, primarily due to Prestigious Society pricing, and secondarily due to the warranty issues that it implies - although it is easily removable and probably pretty quick should that headunit fail.
Lee
1) The Lockout issue is a LEXUS issue and will be a problem no matter what you play, be it a CD with a ton of MP3's on it, etc. It's Lexus' limited faith in society, and yes, it's annoying. But... that being said, there are ways around it:
2) VML will release a firmware update that allows for an indexing of sorts, from what I understand. You can Index by playlist or folder Letters, i.e., A-C, D-F, etc. I don't know when it is going to be released, but I know they are working on it. I don't believe GENRE navigation will be available, but I have gotten around THIS by creating playlists for my Genre's...
3) I mounted the unit on the right side of the car, under the carpet, by the center console and ran a USB extension cable from the VML to the glovebox. As firmware updates are handled via the USB port, versus the SLi's and SL2's plugin USB module which necessitated direct access to the unit, you can mount the VML wherever you would like and not need to access it ever again!
The only way to TRULY get around the lockout mode is to install a nav bypass module, and I for one, do not find this a comfortable alternative, primarily due to Prestigious Society pricing, and secondarily due to the warranty issues that it implies - although it is easily removable and probably pretty quick should that headunit fail.
Lee
03-07-09, 05:17 PM
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You can cut the wires for free. For a few dollars more you can add a switch that will allow destination entries on the fly. The wire cut method is best done when installing the Vais system.
03-08-09, 11:02 AM
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Lee
Thx for the info. I understand that it is a lexus issue, not a vais issue. I look forward to the Vais firmware update but I'm still unsure how it will work since all the folders "greyout" when I drive - for example, my CD will show each song in a separate folder that I can select by touchscreen but they will all greyout when I start moving.
No way will I cut wires because I suspect that it an immediate warranty killer. And, I agree that the PS solution is very expensive.
I guess I will just continue to plug the Ipod into the aux jack - mediocre sound but at least I can find songs easily - until the Vais firmware update.
Thx for the info. I understand that it is a lexus issue, not a vais issue. I look forward to the Vais firmware update but I'm still unsure how it will work since all the folders "greyout" when I drive - for example, my CD will show each song in a separate folder that I can select by touchscreen but they will all greyout when I start moving.
No way will I cut wires because I suspect that it an immediate warranty killer. And, I agree that the PS solution is very expensive.
I guess I will just continue to plug the Ipod into the aux jack - mediocre sound but at least I can find songs easily - until the Vais firmware update.
03-09-09, 10:51 AM
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Lee
Thx for the info. I understand that it is a lexus issue, not a vais issue. I look forward to the Vais firmware update but I'm still unsure how it will work since all the folders "greyout" when I drive - for example, my CD will show each song in a separate folder that I can select by touchscreen but they will all greyout when I start moving.
No way will I cut wires because I suspect that it an immediate warranty killer. And, I agree that the PS solution is very expensive.
I guess I will just continue to plug the Ipod into the aux jack - mediocre sound but at least I can find songs easily - until the Vais firmware update.
Thx for the info. I understand that it is a lexus issue, not a vais issue. I look forward to the Vais firmware update but I'm still unsure how it will work since all the folders "greyout" when I drive - for example, my CD will show each song in a separate folder that I can select by touchscreen but they will all greyout when I start moving.
No way will I cut wires because I suspect that it an immediate warranty killer. And, I agree that the PS solution is very expensive.
I guess I will just continue to plug the Ipod into the aux jack - mediocre sound but at least I can find songs easily - until the Vais firmware update.
So the only thing isn't available when you are driving is the list itself.
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03-10-09, 09:24 AM
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I really don't mean to be dense but I don't understand how you can know what you are selecting when the folders and files are grayed out. For example, when I have Bob Marley Legend in the CD player - when I am stopped I can see the titles of all 16 songs and can decide which to select by touching the screen. When I am driving, I have no idea of the titles of the song on the disk and no way to select them other than advancing one-by-one through the CD.
If there is anyway somebody can post a screen shot of how to select a Album and/or Song while moving - similar to the screen shots Vais shows on their site at stop - that would be very helpful.
If there is anyway somebody can post a screen shot of how to select a Album and/or Song while moving - similar to the screen shots Vais shows on their site at stop - that would be very helpful.
03-10-09, 10:51 AM
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You are right when the car is moving you can only select folders and files one by one, since the list is disabled. But once you scroll one by one, you can see what you are selecting on the top portion of the screen, so current folder and file info is displayed whether the car is moving or not. You can also select different partitions when the car is moving.
03-24-09, 01:25 PM
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You are right when the car is moving you can only select folders and files one by one, since the list is disabled. But once you scroll one by one, you can see what you are selecting on the top portion of the screen, so current folder and file info is displayed whether the car is moving or not. You can also select different partitions when the car is moving.
Can anybody comment?
Thanks
12-12-09, 11:11 AM
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I appreciate the move to digital transfer of audio from the storage device to the audio amp. That's definitely a move in the right direction.
But the user interface issues are much harder to accept, and after waiting/searching for something useable I've decided I was thinking about it the wrong way. The reason the iPod dominates the player market is that it has the world's best user-interface. While all other things equal a fully integrated system that uses the nav screen and controls would be preferable, all other things are most definitely not equal: You have to accept a huge hit in usability to get integration. What the car has that the iPod doesn't is big speakers and a large display. What the iPod has that the car doesn't is lots of storage and the world's best way for a user to wade through all of it to find what he/she wants to play.
I think the best partitioning for now is to use the iPod UI, and just expect the nav display to be a passive "now playing" display. (Album art, anyone?)
And and aside on Vaistech, Dice, et al: Gee guys, it's clear that people's concerns about usability are the #1 barrier to adoption of your products. "How fast does it scroll" and "what does it display" questions are, as you've no doubt discovered, difficult to answer in a satisfactory way in words. You might suggest to your respective marketing departments that as regards UI questions, a video is worth 1000 forum posts. Youtube is free; use it!
But the user interface issues are much harder to accept, and after waiting/searching for something useable I've decided I was thinking about it the wrong way. The reason the iPod dominates the player market is that it has the world's best user-interface. While all other things equal a fully integrated system that uses the nav screen and controls would be preferable, all other things are most definitely not equal: You have to accept a huge hit in usability to get integration. What the car has that the iPod doesn't is big speakers and a large display. What the iPod has that the car doesn't is lots of storage and the world's best way for a user to wade through all of it to find what he/she wants to play.
I think the best partitioning for now is to use the iPod UI, and just expect the nav display to be a passive "now playing" display. (Album art, anyone?)
And and aside on Vaistech, Dice, et al: Gee guys, it's clear that people's concerns about usability are the #1 barrier to adoption of your products. "How fast does it scroll" and "what does it display" questions are, as you've no doubt discovered, difficult to answer in a satisfactory way in words. You might suggest to your respective marketing departments that as regards UI questions, a video is worth 1000 forum posts. Youtube is free; use it!
12-14-09, 10:43 AM
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I appreciate the move to digital transfer of audio from the storage device to the audio amp. That's definitely a move in the right direction.
But the user interface issues are much harder to accept, and after waiting/searching for something useable I've decided I was thinking about it the wrong way. The reason the iPod dominates the player market is that it has the world's best user-interface. While all other things equal a fully integrated system that uses the nav screen and controls would be preferable, all other things are most definitely not equal: You have to accept a huge hit in usability to get integration. What the car has that the iPod doesn't is big speakers and a large display. What the iPod has that the car doesn't is lots of storage and the world's best way for a user to wade through all of it to find what he/she wants to play.
I think the best partitioning for now is to use the iPod UI, and just expect the nav display to be a passive "now playing" display. (Album art, anyone?)
And and aside on Vaistech, Dice, et al: Gee guys, it's clear that people's concerns about usability are the #1 barrier to adoption of your products. "How fast does it scroll" and "what does it display" questions are, as you've no doubt discovered, difficult to answer in a satisfactory way in words. You might suggest to your respective marketing departments that as regards UI questions, a video is worth 1000 forum posts. Youtube is free; use it!
But the user interface issues are much harder to accept, and after waiting/searching for something useable I've decided I was thinking about it the wrong way. The reason the iPod dominates the player market is that it has the world's best user-interface. While all other things equal a fully integrated system that uses the nav screen and controls would be preferable, all other things are most definitely not equal: You have to accept a huge hit in usability to get integration. What the car has that the iPod doesn't is big speakers and a large display. What the iPod has that the car doesn't is lots of storage and the world's best way for a user to wade through all of it to find what he/she wants to play.
I think the best partitioning for now is to use the iPod UI, and just expect the nav display to be a passive "now playing" display. (Album art, anyone?)
And and aside on Vaistech, Dice, et al: Gee guys, it's clear that people's concerns about usability are the #1 barrier to adoption of your products. "How fast does it scroll" and "what does it display" questions are, as you've no doubt discovered, difficult to answer in a satisfactory way in words. You might suggest to your respective marketing departments that as regards UI questions, a video is worth 1000 forum posts. Youtube is free; use it!
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2GMZIBWy_Xc
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uoywFzj4l9Y
02-09-10, 06:49 AM
#13
Upgrading from SL2i
I just ordered my VML yesterday, I am going to upgrade my 2004 LS430 from the SL2i (which will actually now go over to my wife's Sienna), and put the VML in. I am pretty amped, all reviews on the VML are very good. I'm still curious about the size of this thing, my SL2i was tucked into my console under the the "seat warmer" switches, but I'm not sure where the VML will go. Apparently, the VML is about twice as long as the SL2i (and I think the SL2i is pretty tiny).
So, where have people who have one put their VMLs?
So, where have people who have one put their VMLs?
02-23-10, 09:24 AM
#15
Upgrade is worth it!
Hello all, I did the upgrade this weekend from my Vaistech SLi to a VML, and WOW - what a difference in sound! Totally worth it, sounds better by several magnitudes (and I have a fairly trained ear as I am into audiophile home stereo).
If you're on the fence, go for it and buy one of these VML babies!
If you're on the fence, go for it and buy one of these VML babies!