AZ IS350

I have an ’06 IS350 with the stock (non-ML) system. While I think the system sounds very good overall, I think it lacks the low-end bass needed to make it stand out. I’ve been trying for awhile to find a reasonable cost sub setup that compliments and fills out the sound of the factory system without overwhelming it or degrading the overall quality. I’ve tried three different bass packages in this car, with mostly disappointing results.

What I want is, nice clean, punchy bass to compliment the factory sound. I’m 39 and listen to a lot of ’80s hard rock/heavy metal, today’s mainstream rock (U2, Dave Matthews, etc), some 70’s classic rock, and very occasionally pop and rap. Think of the kick drum bass in Metallica’s music back when it was good, that’s the sound I want. I want it to hit hard, quick, and clean. My current system sounds the best so far, an Alpine MRP-650 amp (600w@2ohms), and 1 10” boxed (sealed) Soundstream Picasso 4ohm DVC sub (lower-end). Overall, I’m still disappointed with it for various reasons. The well insulated trunk on the IS muffles quite a bit of the bass inside the cabin. To get adequate sound from this sub, I have to leave the pass-thru and arm rest down on the back seat, which I would rather not do. I do not want to remove any insulating materials from the vehicle. This makes the bass sound very directional and makes it quite loud and muddy sounding at low volumes. I like to listen mostly at around 45-48 on the volume control (fairly loud) and it does sound better there but still not super clean and punchy. Some of my music selections don’t have an abundance of low-end bass (classic rock) so I have the amp crossed over at about 100hz. Overall, it doesn’t have quite the kick I’m looking for, although it does sound good for some songs. I admit I'm not an audiophile. I just know what sound I'm looking for and haven't found it yet.

One problem I have found is that the local audio shops (chain & independent) either don’t understand what I want sound wise, or they just have the general opinion that any low-end bass is good, even if it is rumbly, muddy, or just plain loud. It’s gotten to the point that I will refuse to heed the advice of anyone at these shops that looks younger than 30 and listens to rap/alternative music because I’m now of the general opinion that this group’s mentality is “there’s no such thing as too much bass”. They’ve pushed some of the most overblown, distorted crap, and assured me it will sound great in my car. And of course I haven't found a place that will let you try before you buy. Well, here I am three systems later, asking for advice from the CL audiophiles.

So let me hear your recommendations. I would like to keep the Alpine amp in the mix, I think it’s quite capable of handling just about anything and it’s paid for. I’m all for ditching the boxed sub for something else, or even just trading out the sub for a better one. I have been tempted to try an Alpine type R in the box but then I look at the motor on that thing and just think it’s going to be a lot more ‘boom’ than ‘punch’. Sealed or ported? I don’t want to go up in size on the sub and actually prefer to keep it to a single sub if possible, although I’ve thought about maybe 2-8”s would give me a more suitable sound given my taste in music. Cost is a consideration, say $300 for the sub or sub/box combo is my limit. Thanks for helping.

jayyyy

digital designs 1008s

Robert_J

Don't look at the motor on the sub and make a snap decision. The frequency response is determined by a combination of factors - the driver's paramters, the box it is placed in and the natural cabin gain in the car. I would go sealed. Ported usually means a larger box unless you are shooting for SPL (LOUD!!). Speak size doesn't matter either. A 15" sub can sound just as punchy as an 8" if installed properly.

My advice - Get a 12" sub. You need the additional output a 12 can do over a 10 due to the sound deadening in your trunk. For extreme sound quality, go with a TC-1000. It's one of the lowest distortion subs on the market. If you want 3rd party tests, I can provide links as well. Get the dual 4 ohm VC model so your amp will deliver the 600w. Mount it in the recommended 1.1cf (net) box. That will give you a great system with a pretty flat frequency response.

If you want that extra "umph" of the kick drum, then that will require a boost in the 50-60hz range. You could either add an EQ and boost it or you could use a different sub. The TC-2000 has a higher inducance motor. That means there will be a natural boost in the 50-60hz range. It also has a stronger motor and will work in a slightly smaller box (.9 cf net). This sub could easily take all your amp has to offer without breaking a sweat.

The TC-9 is a 3rd option. It falls in between the suggestions above. It will work well in an even smaller box (.8cf net) and has an even higher inductance for more natural boost.

If it make you feel any better, I'm 38. Car and home audio has been a hobby of mine since junior high school. I haven't heard the exact models I listed above but I have used other subs based on those motor topologies (TC2+ & TC9) very successfully in both home and car installs. I currently use a pair of TC-3000s in my home theater along with a parametric EQ to get a flat frequency down to around 10hz. My wife's ES-350 will probably get a TC2+ based sub in the future. Right now there will be no mods "until the new wears off". Her words, not mine.

-Robert

AZ IS350

RobertJ, Thanks for the advice, this is the kind of feedback I'm looking for. I've actually been looking at the TC subs for a for a few weeks and was thinking of posting a similar question over on their forums. I never really considered going up to a 12" due to it's lower response but maybe it makes sense. What about 2 TC-1000 10's?

Another thing I can consider -one of the shops that sold me a system will give me trade-in credit on a replacement system. I stopped by there this weekend and they just started carrying JL Audio, which seems to be held in fair regard by a lot of people. Do you (or anyone else) have any suggestions on what to look at in the JL line? Maybe this won't be as good as a TC solution but it should be less costly.

Robert_J

A pair of 10's is a great option. They have almost the same surface area as a single 15" sub. You would be able to overcome the sound deadening with ease as well as have a lot of headroom in the low end of your system.

Manville Smith and his crew at JL have an excellent facility as well as great products. (The factory tour is here, post #101) My only problem with them is their premium pricing. TC Sounds is available in products that are just as high end as JL but the keep the prices of their drivers reasonable. For example, a variation of the TC-9 subwoofer is available in the $14,000 Krell Reference Master sub but they still price it at $250. I'm not going to make direct comparisons between models because I'm not familiar with all of JL's lines.

-Robert

MJHSC400

I truly believe the quality JL brings to the table which is absolutely top of the line is present in the TC subs as well--

Otherwise companies like Krell and Eclipse wouldn't source from them-- It's possible the quality is even better--

Many of the models (if not all???) are hand built in the US --

Robert_J

Right here in this factory. No, it's not as flashy as the JL factory but if it keeps the overhead down, I'm all for it.

-Robert

MJHSC400

The most expensive product is not always the best product--

I'm sure everybody knows that--

But sometimes dirt cheap is a good indicator for the trash O meter-- Even then not always--

AZ IS350

I'm going to see what they'll do in trading up to JL first. I suspect they won't give me much and JL is quite spendy, so going all new with the TC's is still an option. So 2-10's or a 12 in a sealed box is what I'm going to start looking at first.

Another question, especially if I go with TC, I'll be looking for enclosure recommends. Where can I look for well-priced quality enclosures? I know everyone says make your own, but I don't have the time or inclination to do it. I'd rather buy one. I have a Q-logic single 10 and a Bassworx dual 10 but I can tell these are low-end and will be undersized for higher-end drivers.

MJHSC400

qlogic is decent

unit74

iTrader: (3)

I am having a similar issue...


I had a fosgate BD500 and a 10" P3 droped in with a 3 Sixty and the sound is just so blah......same issue with the arm rest.

I really feel this car needs a pair of hard hitting 10"s to get anything worth while through the rear wall. It's all metal BTW....only hole is for the OE sub in the deck and the arm rest.....

I think I'm gonna go back and try an additional 10 and see where that gets me. If it still doesn't hit decent, then I'll probably drop a BD1 and a pair of 12's.

AZ IS350

Unit74, have you removed the OEM sub from the rear deck? I'm tying to do that now to see if it makes an appreciable difference in quality or volume.