DaveGS4

iTrader: (2)

Percy/MG:

I've searched the archives and FAQs and found references to several models of Dynaudios, but nothing that says 'these are best fit with minimum custom mounting work'. I want to keep them behind the factory grills.

I've got the JL sub and 5-way amp in place, and am now ready to replace the factory speakers (and evenutally the head unit, but that's later).

I want to go into the Dynaudio mobile dealer and look for exactly the right products... Can you tell me which I should focus on for front (both tweets and mids) and rears?

Thanks as always

Mean Gene

Dave - Since I stink at posting hot links, go to page 4 & check out a thread started by GSMan titled "Percy, have some speaker upgrade questions?". Master P lists the proper sizes of Dyns that will hide behind the factory grilles. Enjoy!

DaveGS4

iTrader: (2)

Thanks Gene, missed that one somehow. I was looking specifically for Percy's responses and the model listing actually was in GSMan's initial post.

Looks like he was going with:

Front / dynaudio MW160 & MD100 ($189 and $269)
Rear / dynaudio MW160

Looking at the Dynaudio site, the front combo appears to be the same as their System 240mkII at $759.00/set, with the difference in price I assume being the "audiophile quality crossover (X250)".

Do you recommend using the Dynaudio crossover or is it overkill? Do l need a crossover to tune, even though my amp (I think) has a built in crossover? I'm using an Alpine MRV-F357 -->link


Thanks again for your help!

Mean Gene

Dave - While Percy's the Dyn guru around here, if the extra money's not a large concern, I opt for the Dyn X-over & use the all-pass signal from the V-12. The Dyn crossover's designed for use with those specific speakers so I'd say it'd be a better match, although that seems to be a nice 12 octave slope X-over built into the V-12 ( as opposed to some amps with a simple HP/LP X-over that kicks in at around 80 Hz ). I used the Focal crossover with my 165's ( on a 2 channel amp )until I got another Power 800a4. This way everything goes through the Symmetry for optimal tuning. If maximum SQ is not THAT big a deal to ya, just use the V-12 crossover & save a few bucks.

Percy

Dave,

Definitely would agree with Gene on this one. The Dyn xovers are designed for their speakers. The only reason why I'm not using them is because I have an active McIntosh crossover to handle the duty. Otherwise, I'd stick with them!

They will require some fabrication of baffles but the time invested is WELL worth it! Yes, they will fit behind the stock grilles.

Percy

DaveGS4

iTrader: (2)

Percy / MG:

Talked to the local Dynaudio dealer and he expressed some concerns about the efficiency of the Dynaudios discussed above when used with my current amp. He doesn't recommend pushing them with "less than 100 watts per corner."

The prime advantage of the Dyn, he said, is the accuracy of the speakers when they have a lot of power pushed through them.

The Alpine V12 MRV-F357 (link to specs in post above) is the amp I'll be using.

He's recommending the JL Audio higher end line (XR650CS is the model he's recommending @ $350) or even the step down V model. Tonally, he says the top end is a slightly brighter (but not MQ bright), mid is not quite good, but close. Dyn handles more power, but JL are a louder at lower power levels such as my amp pushes.

Guy has been a USAC judge and in the business for 14 years... Also mentioned he hates MBQ's, so that should win him some points with you.

Your thoughts on:
1) Use of the Dyn's with my amp's power output
2) Have you heard the JL's he listed?

Thanks as always!

Percy

The Dyns will still sound quite good even with 30 wpc pushed through them. They're known for their power handling but mostly for their accuracy. My philosophy is to upgrade once (especially on speakers) and have them for the "life" of the vehicle or system. Do it right the first time. Still, 88db at 1w/1m isn't too bad of an efficiency rating.

Haven't listened to the JL's listed. IME, nothing comes close to Dyns in their accuracy. Diamond HEX series is kinda close, but they're still in different leagues. So are the ADS 325im's and IS series.

You could go with the JL's now and then upgrade to Dyns later but the money spent on the JL's now can't really be fully recovered.

What are your system goals? How loud do you listen to the system?

Percy

DaveGS4

iTrader: (2)

The answer is kind of like wine "I'm looking for a system with a hint of oak and a buttery finish..." or a haircut "just trim it to about medium-short". : )

My goals are to improve the overall sound from the factory speakers by at least 50%.... to my ears they are just bordering on mediocre. They're often muddled and lack the clarity I'd expect. My old Camry's factory premium speakers sounded better.

Not sure how to quantify this in pure decibles, but I'd go for more quality than volume. I'd say I listen to music medium-loud when cranked up (such that you would have to turn it down to talk in a normal voice in the car) only about 35% of the time. Most of the time when I listen you could speak normally. I do like bass (hence the JL sub), but not glass cracking bass.

Sounds like you recommend going forward with the Dyn's and seeing how the amp pushes them for me. If needed, I could upgrade the amp and sell the Alpine more easily than I could remove the JL speakers and sell them.

Mean Gene

Dave - I've always been an advocate of changing speakers first - after all, that what your ears actually hear. Then U can upgrade amps later ( if needed ). I'll stick with Percy on this one as well. It'll be easier for ya to sell that amp than speakers. Good luck!!

MrHorse

A speaker rating of 88 decibels at 1 watt at 1 meter is booty. At least for the stock amp to drive it. The Pioneer amp is rated at 10-12 watts RMS, if I remember correctly. If you want to drive Dynaudio units, you'll need a good amplifier. Otherwise, if you don't want to upgrade your power output, you'll need speakers that are at least 91 db sensitive. Or, you'll end up cranking distortion (square wave) into your Dynaudios, eventually toasting them. Especially the tweeters..

Percy

A normal speaking voice varies on the person and the gender. Female voices are louder since they hit the 1k to 3k region which just happens to be the most sensitive for human hearing. Maybe that's why female voices sound like they're nagging after the honeymoon? (Better not tell Marken/lexlyf that one!)

When I had the RTA/SPL meter at my disposal, the average voice level (spl wise) was around75 to 80db, A weighted. At 88 db, you would still sufficiently drown out most voices and use 1 watt rms (at 1 meter) to do it with. If your system amp is running around 30wpc rms then the 88db would crank out a max of 103db. Plenty of loudness for the average listener. But for the SPL guys, 103 "is booty".

For all intents and purposes and from the description of your listening habits (your ears will have a long life!) the amp should work out fine with the Dyns.

Also, Gene is right on amps selling easier than speakers. Wear and tear is harder to hear on amps since there are no moving parts...other than the electrons.

Percy

MrHorse

I didn't notice the Alpine amp in your gear. You should be fine driving Dynaudios then. I was referring to the stock Pioneer amp that comes standard with the GS.

Percy - 103 db isn't "booty" - 98 db is. That's around how much the speakers would emit using the stock amp. You also need to consider that the 88 db rating is in a studio setting, in total silence. Interior (car) dynamics, engine noise, wind noise, road noise, etc., all contribute to the final sound wave reaching your ears. At 1 watt, you'd never hear 88 db during driving conditions.

BTW, ditto on the female voice. I ain't married yet (living with my fiance for over a year now) but her voice is starting to sound like pink noise at times.

Percy

MrHorse,

Would that pink noise be A weighted or C weighted?

The 88db is an acurate rating, even in real life terms. With all the noise, it just raises the noise floor, thus reducing the dynamic range. Still produces the 88db 1w/1m though in these conditions. I'm currently using the stock amp with the Dyn speakers as I haven't had the time to refit the entire system and it still gets plenty loud, but then I listen to music at the 9 o clock position which would explain why I still have a good set of ears after 30 years. Plus the weather has been 95+ degrees lately and I'm not spending any time in the trunk with it being that hot!

A McIntosh MC4000M amp is sitting right next to me, all modded out. Just waiting for the right timeand weather to install it.

Fiance for a year? Best of luck to you. Ever notice that if you rearrange the letters in Fiance it spells (add a letter) FINANCE? $$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$!!!!!

Percy

DaveGS4

iTrader: (2)

Percy / MG / MrH:

OK, I've just placed my order for the 240MKII and MW160's for the rear!

I've been searching all afternoon for something Percy referenced in one note about "see my earlier posting on creating a custom baffle" for installing the Dyns, and I'm coming up dry. I even went back to the old EZBoard and looked - I forgot how awful the search feature was on that board, and how many ads there were.

So... sorry to ask for something that's surely been posted. Do you guys recall where there's a good posting describing the custom baffles needed for Dynaudio install? I went through BananaGS's install pic posting but it looked like just burned a slightly larger hole since he was using 5 1/2's up front.

Any thoughts on where I can find a good description?

Thanks again!
David

amlin423

Hey Percy, are you using anycrossovers with your dyns? Since you're only running your speakers with your stock amp now I'm assuming you just took out the stock speakers and replaced them. In that case, is it safe for the tweeters w/out the crossovers? I'm thinking of just putting in the speakers first (my left tweeter is dying) and then slowly acquire the other stuff.

I'm actually convinced to use the McIntosh EQ, X-over, and controller....i mean....if i'm going to have dyns and mcintosh i might as well go all out...