Installation horror story - Lawsuit to be filed tomorrow...LONG
07-06-05, 08:28 AM
#1
Lead Lap
Thread Starter
Installation horror story - Lawsuit to be filed tomorrow...LONG
So, I am withholding the name of the company pending the law suit that I am filing tomorrow. However, here's my nightmare story...
June 13th - I purchase a Kenwood PNAV715 Navigation system from a local car audio shop. I was told by the salesman that it could be installed the next day, and to leave my car parked in their garage overnight.
Day 2 - Around 12:00, I was called at work by the salesman and he told me they were having problems getting the head unit installed. He said "We're having trouble getting the unit to fit depth-wise, but we can probably get it to go. Our installer has been working on it for a couple of hours. I was just calling to let you know, and to ask you if you want us to proceed". I said "Do you think he can get it?" and was told "Yes, I'll make sure he gets it in there for you".
5:00 P.M. My buddy Jeff gives me a ride to the shop to pick up my car and to play with my new navigation system. I open the driver's door and sit down, and to my horror, the unit is basically stuck in the dash and I can see the black electrical tape sticking out behind the top left. The cutting of the dash kit was very poor, and was simply "sitting" in the dash, and not bolted or screwed down whatsoever. Now keep in mind, I've always installed my own systems 100%; I just one time wanted to have someone else do it because I didn't want the hassle or inconvienience. Big mistake!
I was told they didn't have a kit for my car (then why not tell me to wait until they got one in?) and they took a "single din" kit and tried to make it work. I started the car, and the VCS ON, VSC off, and the ABS lights were all on. I told the installer those lights were NEVER on before. The installer, Chris, did try to discharge the electrical system to "reset" it, but nothing seemed to work. He told me to bring the car back the next day, and they had a "contact" at a Lexus dealership that could do a "favor" for them to get my car fixed.
8:00 to 11:00 P.M. Instead of playing with my incorrectly installed Navigation unit, I spent this time trying to get those warning lights to go off. Thanks to the clublexus website, I found information on how to reset the ECU. Nothing seemed to work, so I went to bed, pissed off.
Day 3 - Jeff again follows me up to the car install shop, and I drop my car off at around 9:00 A.M. Around 11:00 I get a call from a "regional representative" from the car shop, and he told me he was taking my car to Lexus. I said "Ok". About an hour later, the rep called back and said "Well, unfortunately the Lexus mechanic tells me you have a bad wheel sensor". I said "No way I do - my car was fine before the installation!"
He then says "Well, can YOU call the Lexus mechanic back and discuss this with him?". I said "No, YOU should be calling him and getting this resolved - I'm paying a premium for this installation and plus I'm at work, too busy to deal with this right now". I also explained to the "rep" that the vehicle speed sensor wire connects to the wheel speed sensors, and that might have been the problem. The rep continued to basically ask me to discuss this with Lexus, so frustrated, I obliged.
Lexus Rep (very nice guy by the way) - Yes, I put your car on the bench, and it's showing an open circuit on the front right wheel sensor.
Me: What were you told by the guy who took the car over there?
Lexus Rep: I was told they installed a radio, which chances are would NOT affect the front right wheel sensor.
Me: They installed a NAVIGATION unit, not just a simple radio!
LR: They never told me that! Sure, that COULD affect this! Let me call the rep back and discuss this with him.
1/2 later - the LR calls back - "Well, I asked the rep if a navigation kit was installed, and he said yes. I asked him why he didn't tell me that, and he didn't have anything to say". I went ahead and put your car back on the tester, and it's showing an open circuit on the front right wheel sensor. I told the rep he'd better get some people back over here to fix the problem.
This part made me even more , especially later when the installer called me back and said he'd drilled through my firewall to connect the VSS wire, and the wire housing must've caught on the drill hole and caused a short.
5:00 Day 3- I pick my car up and the lights are now out, but the radio still looks like crap (pictures to follow).
Day 4 - I managed to read the navigation manual twice the night before, and began testing some of the features driving home from work. Half of stuff didn't work! None of the points of interest or most importantly, the GUIDED part of the navigation! I called the stereo shop for Kenwood's number, as I was basically starting to doubt they knew anything about these units. The Kenwood guy was very helpful, and immediately told me to return my car to the shop, as the VSS wire was STILL not hooked up right! I asked the Kenwood tech if I could call him back or have the installer call him back, and he obliged.
Back at the shop - 2 or 3 installers stood around my car and just tested what seemed like random wires to find the VSS wire. I told them about ClubLexus, and I had a pretty good idea which wire it was (in the speedometer cluster). Finally, I showed them where the wire was - and everything began to work! This was at closing time (6:00) and I was FURIOUS.
On a side note - the installer felt so bad from the way the install went, he had given me his cell number to call if I had any problems. As I drove home I became madder and madder, so I called him to tell him I was returning everything the next day for a refund. He told me "I don't blame you at all - I'd have been much less patient had it been MY car" and "I feel SO BAD because of all this - I'll BUY you a single din kit and hook your old stereo back for you tomorrow (Friday). I also got the owner's name, as I planned to sit down with him the next and explain why I deserved a refund.
Friday, Day 5 - I called the owner and set up an 11:30 appt. with him. I explained the entire story to him, and he simply said "I'm NOT giving you your money back" . We went back and forth for probably about 30 minutes, and I insisted he come look at my car and how poor the install looked. He came out, and around that time the installer arrived and talked to us. Even the owner admitted the install looked really bad. He still refused to give me a refund or even a partial refund, and I basically called out the installer in front of the owner. I said "Didn't you tell me that you didn't blame me for returning it, and that you were buying a dash kit today out of your OWN pocket to install my own radio?" He admitted this to his boss, and the owner said something to the effect that he didn't have the authority to say that to me and that he'd be FIRED because of it.
Stubbornly, the owner still refused to give me a refund! Even though he has a sign that reads "All returns within 3 days of purchase must be accompanied by a reciept". My credit card hadn't been swiped until Tuesday night, and this was Friday afternoon, well within the three days.
So, what do you guys think? I've already gotten a digital picture of the sign on his wall, and filed a complaint with the BBB. Tomorrow I'm going down and filing a small claims case for a complete refund. I told the owner I was suing him if he didn't refund my money, and he still kept saying "No, I've got too much time in this car, I refuse to refund your money". It's HIS company's fault they had so much time in it!
On a side note, I ordered a $10 kit off EBAY and mounted the unit myself. I also hooked up the illumination wire (which was never installed) and now it works ok.
SIGH...What would you guys have done in this case (other than the obvious, which is done it yourself in the first place)?
June 13th - I purchase a Kenwood PNAV715 Navigation system from a local car audio shop. I was told by the salesman that it could be installed the next day, and to leave my car parked in their garage overnight.
Day 2 - Around 12:00, I was called at work by the salesman and he told me they were having problems getting the head unit installed. He said "We're having trouble getting the unit to fit depth-wise, but we can probably get it to go. Our installer has been working on it for a couple of hours. I was just calling to let you know, and to ask you if you want us to proceed". I said "Do you think he can get it?" and was told "Yes, I'll make sure he gets it in there for you".
5:00 P.M. My buddy Jeff gives me a ride to the shop to pick up my car and to play with my new navigation system. I open the driver's door and sit down, and to my horror, the unit is basically stuck in the dash and I can see the black electrical tape sticking out behind the top left. The cutting of the dash kit was very poor, and was simply "sitting" in the dash, and not bolted or screwed down whatsoever. Now keep in mind, I've always installed my own systems 100%; I just one time wanted to have someone else do it because I didn't want the hassle or inconvienience. Big mistake!
I was told they didn't have a kit for my car (then why not tell me to wait until they got one in?) and they took a "single din" kit and tried to make it work. I started the car, and the VCS ON, VSC off, and the ABS lights were all on. I told the installer those lights were NEVER on before. The installer, Chris, did try to discharge the electrical system to "reset" it, but nothing seemed to work. He told me to bring the car back the next day, and they had a "contact" at a Lexus dealership that could do a "favor" for them to get my car fixed.
8:00 to 11:00 P.M. Instead of playing with my incorrectly installed Navigation unit, I spent this time trying to get those warning lights to go off. Thanks to the clublexus website, I found information on how to reset the ECU. Nothing seemed to work, so I went to bed, pissed off.
Day 3 - Jeff again follows me up to the car install shop, and I drop my car off at around 9:00 A.M. Around 11:00 I get a call from a "regional representative" from the car shop, and he told me he was taking my car to Lexus. I said "Ok". About an hour later, the rep called back and said "Well, unfortunately the Lexus mechanic tells me you have a bad wheel sensor". I said "No way I do - my car was fine before the installation!"
He then says "Well, can YOU call the Lexus mechanic back and discuss this with him?". I said "No, YOU should be calling him and getting this resolved - I'm paying a premium for this installation and plus I'm at work, too busy to deal with this right now". I also explained to the "rep" that the vehicle speed sensor wire connects to the wheel speed sensors, and that might have been the problem. The rep continued to basically ask me to discuss this with Lexus, so frustrated, I obliged.Lexus Rep (very nice guy by the way) - Yes, I put your car on the bench, and it's showing an open circuit on the front right wheel sensor.
Me: What were you told by the guy who took the car over there?
Lexus Rep: I was told they installed a radio, which chances are would NOT affect the front right wheel sensor.
Me: They installed a NAVIGATION unit, not just a simple radio!
LR: They never told me that! Sure, that COULD affect this! Let me call the rep back and discuss this with him.
1/2 later - the LR calls back - "Well, I asked the rep if a navigation kit was installed, and he said yes. I asked him why he didn't tell me that, and he didn't have anything to say". I went ahead and put your car back on the tester, and it's showing an open circuit on the front right wheel sensor. I told the rep he'd better get some people back over here to fix the problem.
This part made me even more
, especially later when the installer called me back and said he'd drilled through my firewall to connect the VSS wire, and the wire housing must've caught on the drill hole and caused a short. 5:00 Day 3- I pick my car up and the lights are now out, but the radio still looks like crap (pictures to follow).
Day 4 - I managed to read the navigation manual twice the night before, and began testing some of the features driving home from work. Half of stuff didn't work! None of the points of interest or most importantly, the GUIDED part of the navigation! I called the stereo shop for Kenwood's number, as I was basically starting to doubt they knew anything about these units. The Kenwood guy was very helpful, and immediately told me to return my car to the shop, as the VSS wire was STILL not hooked up right! I asked the Kenwood tech if I could call him back or have the installer call him back, and he obliged.
Back at the shop - 2 or 3 installers stood around my car and just tested what seemed like random wires to find the VSS wire. I told them about ClubLexus, and I had a pretty good idea which wire it was (in the speedometer cluster). Finally, I showed them where the wire was - and everything began to work! This was at closing time (6:00) and I was FURIOUS.
On a side note - the installer felt so bad from the way the install went, he had given me his cell number to call if I had any problems. As I drove home I became madder and madder, so I called him to tell him I was returning everything the next day for a refund. He told me "I don't blame you at all - I'd have been much less patient had it been MY car" and "I feel SO BAD because of all this - I'll BUY you a single din kit and hook your old stereo back for you tomorrow (Friday). I also got the owner's name, as I planned to sit down with him the next and explain why I deserved a refund.
Friday, Day 5 - I called the owner and set up an 11:30 appt. with him. I explained the entire story to him, and he simply said "I'm NOT giving you your money back"
. We went back and forth for probably about 30 minutes, and I insisted he come look at my car and how poor the install looked. He came out, and around that time the installer arrived and talked to us. Even the owner admitted the install looked really bad. He still refused to give me a refund or even a partial refund, and I basically called out the installer in front of the owner. I said "Didn't you tell me that you didn't blame me for returning it, and that you were buying a dash kit today out of your OWN pocket to install my own radio?" He admitted this to his boss, and the owner said something to the effect that he didn't have the authority to say that to me and that he'd be FIRED because of it.Stubbornly, the owner still refused to give me a refund! Even though he has a sign that reads "All returns within 3 days of purchase must be accompanied by a reciept". My credit card hadn't been swiped until Tuesday night, and this was Friday afternoon, well within the three days.
So, what do you guys think? I've already gotten a digital picture of the sign on his wall, and filed a complaint with the BBB. Tomorrow I'm going down and filing a small claims case for a complete refund. I told the owner I was suing him if he didn't refund my money, and he still kept saying "No, I've got too much time in this car, I refuse to refund your money". It's HIS company's fault they had so much time in it!
On a side note, I ordered a $10 kit off EBAY and mounted the unit myself. I also hooked up the illumination wire (which was never installed) and now it works ok.
SIGH...What would you guys have done in this case (other than the obvious, which is done it yourself in the first place)?
07-06-05, 04:02 PM
#2
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Sorry to hear you had such a bad experience with this company. It is very obvious that these people had never worked on a Lexus before. I personally do my own installs as to prevent this sort of thing. I'm with you all the way in suing this company, they sould be held accountable for all your frustration and all the BS you had to go through and not to mention that the install was less than OK. Good luck on getting your money back. Give us an update on what happened.
07-06-05, 04:13 PM
#3
Since the owner is not compliant at all and not honoring the return policy, then you can sue him.
Make sure you have lots of pictures of the poor installations also, if you haven't returned everything to stock already.
If I don't know a stereo shop personally, I would do the installation myself too.
The installer did apologize, but it was the owner who should've refunded you the $$ since it was still within the 3 days as posted.
Make sure you have lots of pictures of the poor installations also, if you haven't returned everything to stock already.
If I don't know a stereo shop personally, I would do the installation myself too.
The installer did apologize, but it was the owner who should've refunded you the $$ since it was still within the 3 days as posted.
07-06-05, 04:47 PM
#4
That owner guy seems to be a total idiot on how things should go, and how he should handle it all, and you are totally right to sue. This is the only route you can take now seeing how he isn't dishing out the customer service end of things. Get everything documented right and get him. Good luck.
07-06-05, 04:55 PM
#5
Lead Lap
Thread Starter
Thanks all! I would just remove it myself and bring it to court, but I suppose they could say I've fooled with it somehow to get out of the lawsuit.
What I'm doing next is taking my car to another (better) car stereo shop and having them professionally "remove" the unit, and I'll sue for that as well.
For 16 years I've always installed my own systems; hell I've always even built my own sub boxes and done everything. I just thought as a way to treat myself this time I'd hand it over to someone else, to save the 2-3 hours (at most) it'd take to fix.
I'll grab the pics off my digital camera to show you. Also, here's their return policy sign:
What I'm doing next is taking my car to another (better) car stereo shop and having them professionally "remove" the unit, and I'll sue for that as well.
For 16 years I've always installed my own systems; hell I've always even built my own sub boxes and done everything. I just thought as a way to treat myself this time I'd hand it over to someone else, to save the 2-3 hours (at most) it'd take to fix.
I'll grab the pics off my digital camera to show you. Also, here's their return policy sign:
Last edited by sparky3; 07-07-05 at 07:16 AM.
07-06-05, 07:32 PM
#6
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dude just dispute the charge on your credit card and move on. Sure it sucks but how much time do you want to spend with these idiots proving your point. Dispute the charges send them a statement and pictures and call it a day.
07-06-05, 10:20 PM
#7
Ah Padawan, your own install you should have done. Whenever you have a car like a Lexus that is not commonly worked on, you need to go to a very reputable shop that can give you references, pictures, experienced installer, etc. and they are never cheap, but they will do a job as well as you, if not better. But that doesn't fix your problem.
I'd consider a small-claim suit as well if it were me, and maybe you can sue for other damages. Sounds like a bunch of clowns. You might consider having the first shop pay a second shop to re-do the install and make any repairs from the first guy's screw-ups.
I'd consider a small-claim suit as well if it were me, and maybe you can sue for other damages. Sounds like a bunch of clowns. You might consider having the first shop pay a second shop to re-do the install and make any repairs from the first guy's screw-ups.
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07-07-05, 07:11 AM
#8
Lead Lap
Thread Starter
Originally Posted by morris
dude just dispute the charge on your credit card and move on. Sure it sucks but how much time do you want to spend with these idiots proving your point. Dispute the charges send them a statement and pictures and call it a day.
07-07-05, 07:14 AM
#9
Lead Lap
Thread Starter
Originally Posted by engin_ear
Ah Padawan, your own install you should have done. Whenever you have a car like a Lexus that is not commonly worked on, you need to go to a very reputable shop that can give you references, pictures, experienced installer, etc. and they are never cheap, but they will do a job as well as you, if not better. But that doesn't fix your problem.
I'd consider a small-claim suit as well if it were me, and maybe you can sue for other damages. Sounds like a bunch of clowns. You might consider having the first shop pay a second shop to re-do the install and make any repairs from the first guy's screw-ups.
I'd consider a small-claim suit as well if it were me, and maybe you can sue for other damages. Sounds like a bunch of clowns. You might consider having the first shop pay a second shop to re-do the install and make any repairs from the first guy's screw-ups.
The only recourse is small claims at this point.
07-07-05, 08:25 AM
#10
just as a heads up you should definately dispute the charges on your credit card. I work for a technology sales company and if we do not send the product that we advertised or if we were to completely jack a customer i would expect to see a charge back. It is extremely common. Small claims court also works.
Sorry to hear about your experiences. i had something similar but not as severe happen with cartoys a while back and then soundtrack. I do my own installs now
~R
Sorry to hear about your experiences. i had something similar but not as severe happen with cartoys a while back and then soundtrack. I do my own installs now
~R
07-07-05, 11:46 AM
#11
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Originally Posted by sparky3
I think if I did that, I'd end up getting sued myself. After all, I'd have my money back AND the stereo, which wouldn't be right.
No one has hauled me into court yet
07-08-05, 06:39 AM
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Horror Story
Sparky3...You have every right to be upset by what they did to you!!
First, I agree with others who posted...dispute the charges on your credit card. 99 times out of 100, the credit card company sides with the cardholder. They want to keep your business. Second, filing a lawsuit probably means retaining a lawyer. Lawyers charge a fortune. Have you considered mediation???? You and the business owner sit down with the mediator, who is a lawyer, and try to come to an agreement in lieu of going to court. Good luck.
First, I agree with others who posted...dispute the charges on your credit card. 99 times out of 100, the credit card company sides with the cardholder. They want to keep your business. Second, filing a lawsuit probably means retaining a lawyer. Lawyers charge a fortune. Have you considered mediation???? You and the business owner sit down with the mediator, who is a lawyer, and try to come to an agreement in lieu of going to court. Good luck.
07-08-05, 10:22 AM
#13
Lead Lap
Thread Starter
Originally Posted by morris
Nah you can still do it, part of the service was for the installation. I had a tranny rebuilt that I wasnt satisfied with how it shifted, the shop that arranged it for me is disputing the charges and I still have the transmission.
No one has hauled me into court yet
No one has hauled me into court yet
07-10-05, 07:06 AM
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Originally Posted by sparky3
I don't roll that way though. It'd be wrong for me to try to get something for nothing, no matter how crappy my install went or how much of a jerk the owner was.
Nah you misunderstood me, the job they did wasnt done properlly, so I have to have another shop redo the work. So its not like I will get to pocket the funds.
It appeared thet that same scenario holds true for you, you wiill have to have someone else correct there botched job.
