Help me decide (IS350 vs. S3)
03-11-15, 07:23 PM
#91
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By the way 3IS 350 F Sport is awesome. Trust me on that. The suspension of 3IS F Sport is way better than that of S3 even with mag ride. Once I mod my S3's suspension it will be definitely be the best car that I have owned though.
03-11-15, 07:31 PM
#92
Hey wats up bro! I didnt know that you are very active on Clublexus. 2,327 posts is a solid experience.
By the way 3IS 350 F Sport is awesome. Trust me on that. The suspension of 3IS F Sport is way better than that of S3 even with mag ride. Once I mod my S3's suspension it will be definitely be the best car that I have owned though.
By the way 3IS 350 F Sport is awesome. Trust me on that. The suspension of 3IS F Sport is way better than that of S3 even with mag ride. Once I mod my S3's suspension it will be definitely be the best car that I have owned though.
I'm not a fan of OEM suspension either way. Only grudge is, there aren't any options for the AWD 3IS (only RSR AFAIK)...and I don't really want to drive RWD in this Canadian winter.
If I do get the S3, I'll be putting in either Bilstein or KW V2 though, and possibly some H&R Sways
03-11-15, 07:38 PM
#93
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Hey! I've been on this forum forever haha, had my 2IS since August 15, 2009.
I'm not a fan of OEM suspension either way. Only grudge is, there aren't any options for the AWD 3IS (only RSR AFAIK)...and I don't really want to drive RWD in this Canadian winter.
If I do get the S3, I'll be putting in either Bilstein or KW V2 though, and possibly some H&R Sways
I'm not a fan of OEM suspension either way. Only grudge is, there aren't any options for the AWD 3IS (only RSR AFAIK)...and I don't really want to drive RWD in this Canadian winter.
If I do get the S3, I'll be putting in either Bilstein or KW V2 though, and possibly some H&R Sways
03-11-15, 07:53 PM
#94
[QUOTE=reyoasian;8949425]Looks is subjective. Simply saying a car looks like a turd (to your opinion) is not saying much.
It's not the price point that I'm concentrating on actually, it's the car. There's nothing wrong with a FWD platform, it's just the norm. Even with a FWD based AWD, the Quattro (Torsen System) blows Toyota's AWD out of the dust. Acura's SH-AWD even has torque vectoring which Toyota doesn't. CLA is ugly to my eyes, but again that's subjective, people have their own tastes. The S3 does look a little small from the outside, but it's interior room is bigger than my current 2IS. Another thing I like is that S3 looks so low-profile, it's not screaming "look at me I'm driving a new $50k sports sedan". M235xi definitely drives better than any other vehicle in this segment and even other segments, but I'm not a fan of coupes, and don't like how the **** looks on this car.
I like smaller, more nimble vehicles which is a plus when it comes to Auto X. I've driven all 4 vehicles mentioned here, hard and pushed to the limits and coming from a heavily-suspension-modded 2IS, the 3IS doesn't impress me. Neither does S3, but that can be changed with some KW or Bilstein coilovers (last I checked, only RSR makes coilovers for the 3IS AWD).
Ofcourse looks are subjective i never claimed otherwise. The audi AWD system is better is also subjective.....It's better if you find yourself driving through snow more often than not but for me I prefer an AWD sports car to still feel like a RWD sports sedan with the front wheels getting a little help for bad weather. And i agree the S3 isn't saying "looking at me in driving a 50k sports sedan" it says "hey look at me I'm driving the wifes car"
It's not the price point that I'm concentrating on actually, it's the car. There's nothing wrong with a FWD platform, it's just the norm. Even with a FWD based AWD, the Quattro (Torsen System) blows Toyota's AWD out of the dust. Acura's SH-AWD even has torque vectoring which Toyota doesn't. CLA is ugly to my eyes, but again that's subjective, people have their own tastes. The S3 does look a little small from the outside, but it's interior room is bigger than my current 2IS. Another thing I like is that S3 looks so low-profile, it's not screaming "look at me I'm driving a new $50k sports sedan". M235xi definitely drives better than any other vehicle in this segment and even other segments, but I'm not a fan of coupes, and don't like how the **** looks on this car.
I like smaller, more nimble vehicles which is a plus when it comes to Auto X. I've driven all 4 vehicles mentioned here, hard and pushed to the limits and coming from a heavily-suspension-modded 2IS, the 3IS doesn't impress me. Neither does S3, but that can be changed with some KW or Bilstein coilovers (last I checked, only RSR makes coilovers for the 3IS AWD).
Ofcourse looks are subjective i never claimed otherwise. The audi AWD system is better is also subjective.....It's better if you find yourself driving through snow more often than not but for me I prefer an AWD sports car to still feel like a RWD sports sedan with the front wheels getting a little help for bad weather. And i agree the S3 isn't saying "looking at me in driving a 50k sports sedan" it says "hey look at me I'm driving the wifes car"
03-11-15, 08:17 PM
#95
Ofcourse looks are subjective i never claimed otherwise. The audi AWD system is better is also subjective.....It's better if you find yourself driving through snow more often than not but for me I prefer an AWD sports car to still feel like a RWD sports sedan with the front wheels getting a little help for bad weather. And i agree the S3 isn't saying "looking at me in driving a 50k sports sedan" it says "hey look at me I'm driving the wifes car"
AWD isn't just for weather, if the STI looked just as good as the last generation I would be all over that.
If that's what you think of the S3 then nothing more I can say, you have your opinions.
I've driven both cars and the Audi drives much better; but this isn't a fair comparison either since it's smaller and more nimble car with less bodyroll. Compared to the S4, the 3IS350 handles much better.
03-12-15, 09:07 AM
#96
You do realize that Audi has been within top five reliable makes on Consumer Reports for for two consecutive years, 2013 and 2014. And within top 10 for three consecutive years, 2012, 2013 and 2014. What this trend shows is that Audi as a brand has dramatically stepped up its reliability. Yes it was pretty bad before and it seems Audi learned its lesson on their own mistakes. Consumer reports discusses Audi and how it has progressed recently, please watch this youtube:
Talking Cars with Consumer Reports #52: 2014 Reliability Results: The Winners and Losers - YouTube
Please fast forward it to 19min and they will start talking about Audis in 5, 6 seconds.
JD Power survey that provided above is obsolete already, it is for 2011 and earlier years. During those years yes Audi had many issues. Starting 2012 Audi has become a lot better.
Again, I am not trying to discredit Lexus 3IS. Lexus is by far the most reliable brand and everybody knows that. I am trying to be fair toward Audi and just make sure that folks don't stereotype Audi. Please folks, the new German cars are not more expensive to maintain than Lexus. They have 10K maintenance interval same as Lexus and all you do is oil and filter change. Very simple these days to maintain modern cars.
Talking Cars with Consumer Reports #52: 2014 Reliability Results: The Winners and Losers - YouTube
Please fast forward it to 19min and they will start talking about Audis in 5, 6 seconds.
JD Power survey that provided above is obsolete already, it is for 2011 and earlier years. During those years yes Audi had many issues. Starting 2012 Audi has become a lot better.
Again, I am not trying to discredit Lexus 3IS. Lexus is by far the most reliable brand and everybody knows that. I am trying to be fair toward Audi and just make sure that folks don't stereotype Audi. Please folks, the new German cars are not more expensive to maintain than Lexus. They have 10K maintenance interval same as Lexus and all you do is oil and filter change. Very simple these days to maintain modern cars.
Tesla owners are the best example. Do some research and you will learn that these cars are TERRIBLY unreliable in just about every way conceivable... mechanical, electrical, fit and finish. But Tesla charms the pants off Model S owners with white glove warranty service and Tesla owners love the driving experience so much that they completely dismiss all the reliability problems and report positive feedback to Consumer Reports. And now you have these three dopes from Consumer Reports sitting in a circle telling everyone that Tesla is reliable... like it's gospel. The same thing happens with Audi to a certain extent. People talk so highly of their dealership experience... like I want to know what the inside of my dealership service department looks like.
When you're preparing to drop $50K+ on something such as a car that is ultimately your instrument for making more money, you have to learn to look past the smoke and mirrors.
03-12-15, 11:02 AM
#97
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Haha, this is pure comedy. In 2009 they were saying the same thing about Audi... then a few years went by and turns out they were wrong. Then In 2011 they were saying the same thing about Audi and a few years went by and they were wrong.... RINSE AND REPEAT. You think Audi flipped a switch and suddenly their cars started being more reliable or that they fixed every single possible problem as the platform matured? No, it's that new cars don't start breaking until they become older cars. You have to pay attention to user forums and technical service bulletin postings to learn a car's current reliability and/or future reliability. A lot of Audi's problems are deeply rooted in the mechanical and electrical engineering of the platform that can't be fixed in the newer model year.
Tesla owners are the best example. Do some research and you will learn that these cars are TERRIBLY unreliable in just about every way conceivable... mechanical, electrical, fit and finish. But Tesla charms the pants off Model S owners with white glove warranty service and Tesla owners love the driving experience so much that they completely dismiss all the reliability problems and report positive feedback to Consumer Reports. And now you have these three dopes from Consumer Reports sitting in a circle telling everyone that Tesla is reliable... like it's gospel. The same thing happens with Audi to a certain extent. People talk so highly of their dealership experience... like I want to know what the inside of my dealership service department looks like.
When you're preparing to drop $50K+ on something such as a car that is ultimately your instrument for making more money, you have to learn to look past the smoke and mirrors.
Tesla owners are the best example. Do some research and you will learn that these cars are TERRIBLY unreliable in just about every way conceivable... mechanical, electrical, fit and finish. But Tesla charms the pants off Model S owners with white glove warranty service and Tesla owners love the driving experience so much that they completely dismiss all the reliability problems and report positive feedback to Consumer Reports. And now you have these three dopes from Consumer Reports sitting in a circle telling everyone that Tesla is reliable... like it's gospel. The same thing happens with Audi to a certain extent. People talk so highly of their dealership experience... like I want to know what the inside of my dealership service department looks like.
When you're preparing to drop $50K+ on something such as a car that is ultimately your instrument for making more money, you have to learn to look past the smoke and mirrors.
Consumer Reports conducted the studies, even if these studies are not completely false less. They actually spent a lot of time and invested a lot of work to come up to a certain conclusion. They questioned millions of owners so I value that a lot more than someone else's opinion, nothing personal here.
03-12-15, 12:15 PM
#98
I don't think anybody is denying Lexus is number one (or at leasat top three) in terms of reliability and dependability. German counterparts are definitely less reliable when it comes to electronics (relatively). Not even sure why this is still even a debate, nobody is denying this fact. But this isn't always the #1 factor for everyone looking to purchase a vehicle.
When it comes to driving dynamics, and performance potential, Germans (and other Japanese) blows Toyota out of the picture. You can't always have everything, and there's always gotta be something to sacrifice.
If I'm buying a car to drive 20 years, into the ground, I'll get another Lexus/Toyota in a heart beat.
At the end of the day, it depends on whether YOUR specific vehicle is reliable or not.
And when it comes to whether one likes a car or not, sometimes it can't be explained. The feeling you get when you drive it, isn't something that's not describable by words.
Just checked insurance and it's within $10 difference between the 3IS350 AWD and 8V S3 Sedan. Now it all comes down to which car I like better in terms of the drive, and I gotta lean more towards the S3.
When it comes to driving dynamics, and performance potential, Germans (and other Japanese) blows Toyota out of the picture. You can't always have everything, and there's always gotta be something to sacrifice.
If I'm buying a car to drive 20 years, into the ground, I'll get another Lexus/Toyota in a heart beat.
At the end of the day, it depends on whether YOUR specific vehicle is reliable or not.
And when it comes to whether one likes a car or not, sometimes it can't be explained. The feeling you get when you drive it, isn't something that's not describable by words.
Just checked insurance and it's within $10 difference between the 3IS350 AWD and 8V S3 Sedan. Now it all comes down to which car I like better in terms of the drive, and I gotta lean more towards the S3.
03-12-15, 01:36 PM
#99
Lexus Test Driver
I don't think anybody is denying Lexus is number one (or at leasat top three) in terms of reliability and dependability. German counterparts are definitely less reliable when it comes to electronics (relatively). Not even sure why this is still even a debate, nobody is denying this fact. But this isn't always the #1 factor for everyone looking to purchase a vehicle.
When it comes to driving dynamics, and performance potential, Germans (and other Japanese) blows Toyota out of the picture. You can't always have everything, and there's always gotta be something to sacrifice.
If I'm buying a car to drive 20 years, into the ground, I'll get another Lexus/Toyota in a heart beat.
At the end of the day, it depends on whether YOUR specific vehicle is reliable or not.
And when it comes to whether one likes a car or not, sometimes it can't be explained. The feeling you get when you drive it, isn't something that's not describable by words.
Just checked insurance and it's within $10 difference between the 3IS350 AWD and 8V S3 Sedan. Now it all comes down to which car I like better in terms of the drive, and I gotta lean more towards the S3.
When it comes to driving dynamics, and performance potential, Germans (and other Japanese) blows Toyota out of the picture. You can't always have everything, and there's always gotta be something to sacrifice.
If I'm buying a car to drive 20 years, into the ground, I'll get another Lexus/Toyota in a heart beat.
At the end of the day, it depends on whether YOUR specific vehicle is reliable or not.
And when it comes to whether one likes a car or not, sometimes it can't be explained. The feeling you get when you drive it, isn't something that's not describable by words.
Just checked insurance and it's within $10 difference between the 3IS350 AWD and 8V S3 Sedan. Now it all comes down to which car I like better in terms of the drive, and I gotta lean more towards the S3.
03-12-15, 02:32 PM
#100
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ps: there are also other factors such interior material quality, ride quality, mpg etc etc but those of course can go either way.
03-12-15, 03:55 PM
#101
We should rephrase this. Germans and other Japanese used to blow Toyota out of the water but now Toyota is comparable and even segment leading. Its just another reason why buying the 3IS is a great decision if your criteria are value, reliability, and handling. If you find these valuable, the 3IS is easily the best car in the segment.
Lexus did a great job with the 3IS around turns compared to what it used to be in the 2IS, I definitely agree. It drives much better than the F30 (my original debate was between F30 328xi vs. 3IS350 AWD). The C-Class is not even comparable in this segment anymore, it's kind of sad. The A4/S4 is so nose heavy that it understeers so much. Handling wise in this segment, I gotta give ATS first place, followed by 3IS.
This debate is getting out of hand and going all over the place. I understand people here drives a Lexus and thus defending it like fanboys, I come from Lexus background as well. But honestly, Toyota doesn't wow me anymore. They're going in a good direction right now and should keep up the good work, but I grew out of that bland, boring (L) logo now.
03-16-15, 04:18 AM
#102
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I don't know where some of you get this information from, but it's definitely not from actually driving the car, that's for sure. I owned a B8 S4 for 3 and a half years, and it was certainly not nose heavy. In fact, it oversteers all day thanks to the torque vectoring diff, sometimes creating snap oversteer like a light mid/rear engined sports car. I've never felt it do anything remotely close to understeering, ever. Ever. If you guys would stop regurgitating whatever the fanboys write on the forums, that would be helpful to people actually trying to make an informed decision.
Also, to whoever wrote that bit about JD rankings and improved Audi reliability, my S4 was in the shop more than on the road for the entire duration of ownership, along with a million other B8s I saw everytime clogging the service lot and service bays (not for oil changes by the way). The most reliable car I ever owned was a Lotus Elise. Three years of extreme abuse, one CEL for a loose gas cap. Can't say the same for anything else I've ever owned, but if the GX hits the same milestone I'll let you know.
Last edited by MTLDean; 03-16-15 at 04:25 AM.
03-21-15, 09:27 PM
#103
I don't know where some of you get this information from, but it's definitely not from actually driving the car, that's for sure. I owned a B8 S4 for 3 and a half years, and it was certainly not nose heavy. In fact, it oversteers all day thanks to the torque vectoring diff, sometimes creating snap oversteer like a light mid/rear engined sports car. I've never felt it do anything remotely close to understeering, ever. Ever. If you guys would stop regurgitating whatever the fanboys write on the forums, that would be helpful to people actually trying to make an informed decision.
Also, to whoever wrote that bit about JD rankings and improved Audi reliability, my S4 was in the shop more than on the road for the entire duration of ownership, along with a million other B8s I saw everytime clogging the service lot and service bays (not for oil changes by the way). The most reliable car I ever owned was a Lotus Elise. Three years of extreme abuse, one CEL for a loose gas cap. Can't say the same for anything else I've ever owned, but if the GX hits the same milestone I'll let you know.
04-27-15, 08:58 AM
#104
reyoasian, how are doing buddy? I see that you are having some troubles with a brand spanking new S3. Very undesirable start with Audi that you have my friend. Most members that responded kinda criticized you for overreacting and having unreasonable entitlement as to ask for a replacement or a full refund. I disagree with them on certain points. Here is what I agree with you - I do believe that when your car unexpectedly stalls (or dies as you originally stated) for no apparant reason without any warning it IS a dangerous situation. .....
You will be surprised that it is a lot more common to have these issues with VAG cars than with Toyota. I owned two Audis . First one was A6 C7 and AOA bought it back under as it turned out to be a lemon. Years later I bought this S3 and the same night I bought my current S3 I brought the vehicle back to the dealer due to the faulty steering rack. So they replaced the rack and now I have issues. When I owned Lexus IS350 F Sport I had zero issues, literally zero issues. It just reinforces the common notion that the German cars should not be kept outside of manufacturer's warranty. Enough said.
You will be surprised that it is a lot more common to have these issues with VAG cars than with Toyota. I owned two Audis . First one was A6 C7 and AOA bought it back under as it turned out to be a lemon. Years later I bought this S3 and the same night I bought my current S3 I brought the vehicle back to the dealer due to the faulty steering rack. So they replaced the rack and now I have issues. When I owned Lexus IS350 F Sport I had zero issues, literally zero issues. It just reinforces the common notion that the German cars should not be kept outside of manufacturer's warranty. Enough said.
Here's a quick update as I just got a call from Service:
Fuel pump sensor was replaced today and they tested the car and it drove fine. Some Master Tech from Audi Canada (he does not work for the dealership) came for final inspection and testing and the car drove fine until he pulled it back into the dealership when the engine shut off again. Thank God they called this AOC Master Tech to come for a second test drive, else it would've been me in the car experiencing the same s***ty situation again...
Now they claim it might be the computer that's sending the wrong signal that the car has no fuel (fuel indicator when I left the car at the gate still had 1/3 tank, and this is the original tank of gas that came with the car when I picked it up). They're now going to replace the complete fuel pump system.
Oh gosh.........
Fuel pump sensor was replaced today and they tested the car and it drove fine. Some Master Tech from Audi Canada (he does not work for the dealership) came for final inspection and testing and the car drove fine until he pulled it back into the dealership when the engine shut off again. Thank God they called this AOC Master Tech to come for a second test drive, else it would've been me in the car experiencing the same s***ty situation again...
Now they claim it might be the computer that's sending the wrong signal that the car has no fuel (fuel indicator when I left the car at the gate still had 1/3 tank, and this is the original tank of gas that came with the car when I picked it up). They're now going to replace the complete fuel pump system.
Oh gosh.........
This is not an "I told you so" but rather to update the post and let people know it is not biased to say one company has better reliability than another (toyota/lexus vs vw/audi). It is just the way it is.
Mike
04-27-15, 09:39 AM
#105
Lexus Test Driver
Nobody was bashing you at all about liking Audi. I own an S4 now in addition to the IS350. I think its interesting to update this thread after 1 month of ownership for you and reyo owning the S3. From audizine...
This is not an "I told you so" but rather to update the post and let people know it is not biased to say one company has better reliability than another (toyota/lexus vs vw/audi). It is just the way it is.
Mike
This is not an "I told you so" but rather to update the post and let people know it is not biased to say one company has better reliability than another (toyota/lexus vs vw/audi). It is just the way it is.
Mike
It honestly sounds like an "I told you so." hahaha. Doesn't matter as I don't have an Audi but some of my buddies have had issues and others have not.
Why do you have both the IS350 and S4...seems too similar to have both of