bhvrdr

All I am saying is to keep in mind the consumer report studies ONLY take into account 12 months of ownership. Even if Audi placed in the top 10 (which is not saying much) for 10 years in a row in the consumer reports study it does not mean they assessed 10 years of ownership. Only that for 10 years audis seemed to hold together for 12 months of ownership. Each year they assess each new model for ONLY 12 MONTHS.

So the consumer report reliability studies are really no different than an INITIAL QUALITY study NOT long term reliability. For that you want to go to JD powers who assess for 3 years. Thats not great either but at least better than 12 months. And yes it is assessing cars from 2011 because they are assessing the cars for 3 years. You cannot assess any long term reliability on a car you have only owned for a year. So stating that the newer Audis are more reliable is moot right now. No long term studies have been done on them yet. They arent old enough yet to have done long term studies. What we do know is that the most recent long term study has them placed well below industry average and over twice as problematic as lexus. This is coming from a person who has owned 4 of them and will likely own more. I am a fan of Audi. The reliability is terrible though. Again, their newest TFSI engine that was supposed to be the new quality audi had 126,000 total engine failures. It was such a piece that Audi was forced to extend the warranty on it from 50,000 miles to 80,000 miles.

Ill stop beating the dead horse now.

Mike

salvadorik

iTrader: (1)

I think here emotions speak louder than rationale because you had bad experience with Audis. I would not generalize the entire brand based on my personal experiences nor would I listen to a person who takes it personally. I am done beating that poor dead hearse as well.

bhvrdr

I think you missed the part where I said I like Audi cars. I have continued to own them despite problems and will likely buy an A6 in the next year. There is no bad emotion towards them. I had great experiences with them too.

Im pretty sure all I have posted are objective facts.

Fact is, the ONLY LONG TERM reliability studies out there show them performing well below industry average.

Fact, Audi ranks right next to Kia in long-term reliability actually.

Fact, Consumers report does not assess long term reliability. I have no idea why you would refer to them.

Fact, audi has had to settle a class action lawsuit on 126,000 engine failures of their latest TFSI engine and has had to offer owners extended warranties on the engines.

So all I would ask is that if you have evidence that their reliability has somehow improved, please let me know but consumers reports studies are not relevant.

Mike

salvadorik

iTrader: (1)

Only you say that Consumer Reports result is not relevant. CNN, Fox News, CNBC and most national news channels publish the consumer reports survey results every year because apparently they see the value in the studies Consumer Reports conducts. You know I kinda feel that it means something.

http://money.cnn.com/gallery/autos/2...reliable-cars/
http://money.cnn.com/gallery/autos/2...reliable-cars/
http://www.newsday.com/classifieds/c...2014-1.6339003

bhvrdr

Yes, the consumer reports studies measure initial quality. That is where their relevance lies.

To bring a consumer report study into a conversation about long term reliability is not relevant. Consumers report does not study long term reliability.

If you want to know how a car performs for 12 months after you buy it. Yes, please reference the consumers report studies. I, personally, have not found any manufacturer's cars to be blatantly falling apart in the first 12 months. You could probably have gotten the Yugo and LeCar to hold it together for 12 months.

Fact is a car could fall apart into pieces at 13 months and it would never ever get picked up in the consumer report studies. I cant change that.

If you happen to want to own a car for more than 12 months, you may want to look at a different study though. That is where JD Powers comes in. Here you can see how the car maintains reliability for 3 years. Now we're getting somewhere.

Mike

salvadorik

iTrader: (1)

Alright good job. You win.

Seriously speaking though I will do a bit more research and post the results.
Still think Lexus customer service is not better than Audi's. I have dealt with both and at least Audi has the guts to acknowledge the issues. Lexus doesn't. As I said previously perhaps the part of the reason of their top notch reliability is because Lexus does not admit the problems and many issues get undereported.

5gears-IS

iTrader: (5)

Why? Can you explain?

Loe

I was under the impression that consumer reports reliability studies are based off actual warranty claims throughout the warranty periods? Or was that JD power?

CJW

iTrader: (1)

I thought my post was fairly clear, but when you buy the F-Sport, there are numerous, often typical, options that are not available (listed in my post).

So if you want the more sporting version of th car (F-Sport), you can't get a lot of good options. This is not a cheap car, but they definitely de-content the F-Sports.

nabizzy

The S3 is better than the IS350...and I have an IS350 lol. If I had the option the get the S3 at the time I would have, but didn't feel like 2 audis was necessary and really liked the exterior of the IS. My friend bought an S3 and I wish I would have given it a chance at the time because I likely would have picked that as well. The fit and finish of the interior in the audi's is just better. Lexus may be able to beat the other japanese brands, but IMHO the germans are on another level altogether.

Thats not to say the lexus sucks. The car drives great, looks great, and has proven to be very reliable. But, I find the gearbox slow and the car leaves me desiring more in terms of power. It is just a daily though, so for that purpose I think it does the job very very well.

salvadorik

iTrader: (1)

Wait a sec, are you saying or according to your signature you have RS7? Wow, I am jealous (in a good way). How do you like your RS7?

wfibear

I know folks who have gotten manually flagged upon physical inspection even after being flashed back by the shop, so YMMV.

Unless they're using anything like the D4-S heads, there will still be buildup. When my '12 A4 had a piston break apart at 25k miles, they took the intake manifold off and the intake valves and ports were absolutely caked in carbon already.

I heard they were working on a new generation EA888 (TSI/TFSI) engine that was supposed to incorporate port and direct injection like D4-S, but I don't know that they're using it yet.

I had a number of these same issues w/ my A4. Bad coil packs. Bad piston rings. Heck, it was claimed to have been fixed for MY12 and I still had the issue, to the point where a piston fell apart, and I don't even beat on my cars. The dealer was a total hassle about it too. My ECU also fried itself at one point. They tried to blame that on VCDS coding and TD1'd me for it All in all, I was without the car a good three months of my second year of ownership and I dumped that thing like a hot potato after it was in working order again. I'd like to think I was just particularly unlucky (anecdotal stuff isn't strictly reliable, you know) but I have read a lot of similar issues over the past few years.

I think customer service experience is going to depend highly on the dealership, as well as individual experience. My local Audi dealer was pretty nice to me, until I started having problems. My Lexus dealer has also been good to me, but I haven't had my GS in for warranty work at all. When I had issues with my A4 the dealer tried to find any little thing possible that could be somehow twisted into being my fault, and Audi corporate took that and ran with it. They treated me pretty poorly. It was an expensive experience for me $-wise, but I just cut my losses and sold the car over it. I consider my time more valuable than that.

As far as the CR stuff, what others have said is pretty spot on. 12 months is pretty much initial quality only. I recall folks saying good things about more recent Fords on the initial quality studies like at CR, but not so much after several years, for example. That Audi has much improved initial quality is great, but the car still has to last a few years.

salvadorik

iTrader: (1)

From your first sentence you happened to be baised my friend. No offence but you are just an another baised lexus advocate on a lexus forum. Good job though. I dont blame you for that. Post about Audi on Audiworld and most members will side with audi. I just concluded for myself, there must be economic reasons why some members aggressively try to defense their own make. lol I am probably one of the few owners who stay impartial and try to fight for a justice. Lol

Three Lexus dealerships i visited in bay area and all three are same. Whenever you bring up an issue they investigate as if it is kinda a first degree murder case to make artificially difficult to get it done. A lot of delay. Very stingy with loaners and keep checking gas level and all that. At Audi dealers were proactive to my complaints, if I said back up camera has slight distortion they would investigate further to find the real cause and fix it. Give me whatever the loaners i want from their inventory. Never checked on gas and were very liberal overall. Called customer relations never lady or a gentleman would behave in such a disgraceful manner as the lady did representing Lexus. I am being honest here and sharing overall my opinion.

Yes Lexus introduced this great customer service at dealership level but others caught up now and even in some ways surpassed Lexus. Those who had problems with Audi, just give it another chance and you guys will see that this company transformed into a great one.

wfibear

What exactly is biased about what I said? I outright said your experience is gonna depend on different factors. I've owned a Dodge, an Audi, this Lexus, a Mazda, and two Hondas (I still have one Honda and the Mazda in fact!). I don't think I have that much motivation to be biased. There are good and bad things about the dealers for all of them. And as I stated, my experience with the Audi dealer in my area was more like your claimed Lexus dealer experience, however I also stated I haven't had any real problems to take to my Lexus dealer so I can't speak to that for them. Only that the experience I have had with them thus far was fine. Point being, it is all anecdotal. Since we're pointing fingers, are you a biased Audi guy from an Audi forum? Your accusation kind of reads like it Maybe you have me confused with someone else in this thread you argued with.

My experience with Audi dealer service, corporate care, and product reliability was just within the past year and like I said I wasn't impressed. Everyone is going to have a different experience though. Some folks never have problems, and some are unlucky. However, it's kind of hard to ignore the long term surveys some other folks have pointed out here.

tea

i, for one, think Audis aren't very attractive