boe

You are correct, I would get the IS hybrid over the ES hybrid for a number of reasons -
1. Slightly smaller - helps with parking in LA
2. More fun to drive - I do enjoy driving sometimes for the sake of driving in a fun car (in the hills, not in LA traffic)
3. Better gas mileage.
4. Leather steering wheel.

But I do agree, they could improve the 0-60 (comparable to the ES) but I could live with it.

SW17LS

BUT...they got your money anyways. Thats the point.

boe

Not quite yet If by some miracle the acura TLX gets some of that Honda Accord hybrid goodness put in it next year, I'll probably go that route. My TL is 13 years old and still runs great and has a more comfortable seat than just about any other car I've driven so I'm in no rush.

SW17LS

I have you confused with someone else then, I thought you already had an ES300h.

Have you driven one of these hybrids? if not, you should. Thats all I'll say. I had a Prius in the family, and even with that experience I'd never buy a Lexus hybrid just because I don't like how the powertrain feels.

boe

No worries, I don't expect you to know my life story, although their will be a test on Friday and half of your final grade depends on it

I've driven the accord hybrid - that was good enough for me but hated the seats. It has better acceleration than the hybrid Lexus line but I wouldn't want to spend hours a day in that seat. It seems to have more side sway than my current car.

I've been in the ES hybrid but I wasn't driving and my driving isn't the same as their s so I can't really say how well it does. Seemed comfortable though. I'll test drive it if I'm really ready to buy immediately.

I've never been in an IS hybrid but I've driven the regular IS - fine car but the rear window view seems a bit limited in reverse. I realize no car is going to be perfect but since my car is still running fine, I can wait so see if something I want to develop does. The ES getting a new GPS makes it acceptable to me (I honestly wouldn't consider it unless it could do voice nav in a single line - I hate using my phone as a GPS as I'm often in meetings while traveling to a new client) but it isn't wowing me enough. The TLX being hybrid would be my best option but if I could get a IS300h that would probably be fine as well.

SW17LS

Haha, hopefully I'll pass the test.

Honda's hybrid system is not a true hybrid system unless something has changed (havent driven one in years). The engine doesn't shut down, the electric motors just boost the motor's output. What I don't like about the Toyota/Lexus system is the feel of the drivetrain. I don't like the feel and sound of the CVT, and the engine cutting in and out isn't smooth enough to me. The fuel economy is nice, but driving say an ES300h and an ES350 back to back the 350 is a MUCH more appealing car to me.

As for the TLX vs the IS, the TLX is going to be more similar to what you're used to in your TL. The IS is a sportier car, the RWD layout is dynamically superior. Thats either important to you or its not, if you like the way an Accord Hybrid drives or an ES, you likely wouldn't appreciate what makes the IS a superior vehicle. Thats not a bad thing, it just is what it is.

boe

I want to be clear, I don't know jack about cars so take what I say accordingly.

With the IS300h, they address the transition issue by tricking your senses by putting an engine sound in to cover the change. If you go to youtube there is a video by fifth gear where they discuss it.
These guys don't really like hybrids so it got a surprisingly high score all things considered - not an impressive score but good for them when it comes to hybrids.

The RWD thing is actually a downside of the IS for me. I realize people who love to drive typically prefer RWD, however driving in Tahoe, I prefer FWD as I'm more used to it in winter conditions. I grew up with RWD vehicles but by the time I was 25 I pretty much only drove FWD vehicles and they just seemed better for me in the snow. Occasionally I'll have to rent a RWD in winter conditions when I travel and I really miss FWD at those times (however I've never rented a lexus RWD or other luxury brand in the winter as I'm a pretty cheap SOB).

SW17LS

Engine sound isn't going to solve the inherent feel of a CVT.

Bear in mind that an IS in your region would be AWD not RWD. The AWD system that comes on the IS and GS is quite robust and is excellent in the snow. FWD is preferable to RWD when it comes to getting going from a stop in the snow, but when it comes to control and steering there actually are drawbacks.

Sounds to me like the TLX is a better car for you.

magne

Have you ever driven something other than the prius?
Like the GS450h? I assume that you haven't and none of you have driven the IS300h, since it is not avalible in the US.

I do own one. And to compare it to the prius is a shame.
The CVT in the IS300h is a very advanced piece of machinery. The feel of the drivetrain can not at all be compared to a prius or a lexus CT200h.
Yes, it is still a cvt gearbox, but unlike in the prius where the revs shoots to the top if you barley touch the accelerator. the cvt in the IS actually functions as a normal auto gearbox, where it just slighlty adjust the revs of the engine, according to how hard you push the accelerator.
in other words, it is a bit like an old 3-4 speed auto gearbox with overdrive. The revs just go up a bit when you accelerate, and go down again when you let go of the throttle. Only way to shoot the revs to the max is by pushing the throttle all the way down to the floor, in Sport mode.
Normally when you accelerate, it just goes up to about 3000rpm and stays there until you let go of the throttle.

Another thing to consider is that there is a lot of sound proofing in the IS, so you don't hear the engine or cvt, except for when the revs goes over 4000rpm.

I'd like to point out that making assumptions based on a tv clip on youtube may also show a little lack of good arguments, if you have never even seen or driven one.

The IS 300h is not supposed to be a sportscar, so the way the drive it in the clip does not show the carracter of the car very well. I'd say it has the same function as an Is250. It is not a sportscar, but a good and comfortable cruiser with very little noice due to the hybrid drivetrain.
You can acutally drive electric up to speeds over 70 km\h.
and the fuel consumption is under half of what the IS250 uses.
I normally get around 1000km per tank of fuel. Tank holds about 60 liters.

In the wintertime the hyrbid works very well, as the batteries are on top of the rear wheels, so you have some weight to help traction.
Since we have the same kind of weather were I live, as they have in Alaska, I'd say I have gotten it tested through real winter conditions.

Now as stated before, this is not a sportscar. So people who would buy one, are people looking for a a nice luxury car that is economical, and who do not want a diesel car.
Lexus claims that the hyrbid does not have a traditional starter motor or a traditonal generator because everything is built in to the hybrid system, and also the brakepads will last about 30000miles due to the hybrid system doing most of the braking electrically.
Considering how popular the prius is in the US, I'm very supprised that lexus has not pushed to move the Hybrid IS into the US market.

FinaLpeace

Sorry NO OFFENSE, but I would have to disagree with your respond to the OTHER MEMBER'S post.

First of all the IS is a sports car hence the designation name "Intelligent Sport".

Second the prius is a way more fuel efficient car than the IS300h.

Third the IS300h is a hybrid which is why it's quiet. In your beginning statement you said that comparing the IS to Prius is a shame then at the end you compare the prius to the IS again, contradicting much.

Fourth the IS exterior and interior looks more sporty to me rather than luxurious.

The new 2015 Mercedes C class is the true luxurious car in this segment. Compare that car to the IS and you can see what level of luxurious is the IS300h in.

However I do like how you threw the IS250 out of the sports car category hahaha

[Your whole statement basically summarized to: the IS300h is not a sports car and is rather a luxurious economical car for people to consider shopping. Let me tell you what did the poster you responded to basically said but you didn't understood. He said the U.S market have the ES and CT hybrid which are "not sporty" but "very luxurious" and runs better city/highway mpg rating and also definitely more luxurious looking than the IS because the IS300h IS A HYBRID SPORTS CAR LOL]

rayaans

Yes. And I can reply in whatever thread I want, you cant stop me. Besides, what i said is perfectly relevant

SW17LS

Yes I have driven the CT200h, the ES300h, the GS450h, and the RX450h. I would not buy any of them. Sorry, but the hybrid setup and most specifically the CVT is just a 100% deal breaker for me. I cannot stand the way they drive.

The CVT in every Lexus/Toyota hybrid is a very advanced piece of machinery. Nobody else uses the same sort of shift device, but I still don't like the way they feel.

I disagree. The Lexus hybrids are more refined for sure, but the same CVT rubbery connection between the engine and transmission feel exists in every one I have driven. I haven't driven an LS600h, but I have watched POV test drives on youtube, and they exhibit that same CVT engine drone and I hate that.

This statement is a clear contradiction. You say that when accelerating the RPMs go up to about 3000 and stay there until you let go of the throttle. Thats what I'm talking about, that creates that annoying monotone engine drone when accelerating that I have issue with. Then you say its a bit like a 3-4 speed auto with overdrive...but thats not how a car with a 3-4 speed auto accelerates at all. When accelerating you have rising and falling RPMs as the transmission shifts through its gears, RPM slowly building as the transmission reaches a shift point, the RPM doesn't just get to a certain point at 10MPH and stay there until 60 MPH like it does with a CVT.

Unless the IS300h has more sound proofing than the more expensive GS450h, or the non hybrid IS I would have to disagree with this statement. The IS is not an especially quiet car nor is it meant to be. The GS is quieter, and even in the GS450h and like I said before in the LS600h I hear that CVT engine drone and it drives me nuts.

I'm glad you like your IS300h, but as I've said I do not like the way hybrids or cars with CVTs drive, and I don't see that opinion changing. I'd rather have a diesel. I haven't driven an IS300h, but since I have driven the GS450H which is a superior vehicle on the same basic platform and didn't like how it drove I don't see me liking the IS300h.

I agree with your post above, and would add that this is why its not offered here, because Lexus feels the ES300h caters to that customer at that price point. In Norway there is no ES300h, which is why they sell the IS300h there and not here.

magne

Everyone is entitled to their own opinion about CVT's. I just do not think it is fair to compare the cvt in the IS to the CVT in the Prius, as they feel pretty different. This is probably mostly due to the prius having a small engine.
I believe the ES300h would be a direct replacement for the IS300h. But since I know nothing about it, I can't really comment on that one.
Since we only have the CT, IS ,GS, LS And RX here, I'd say they compare directly to both, auci, bmw, and merc equal sice models.
But lexus only offers the hybrids here, and they are markeded as an eco friendly and luxurious alternative, with superior quality.
Lexus and sport is not mentioned in the same sentence in Europe. The f-sport models are the sportier altertative, like bmw M Sport optics, audi S line and mercs avantgarde models.

If you have driven the Es300h and the GS 450h you'll know what I meant by saying the drivetrain can't comapre to a prius. The prius revs to the limit when you push the throttle, while the lexus models has the possibility to stay at 3000rpm while accelerating.
Don't know about the the noice in the ES. but in the GS and IS I can never hear the CVT box. I can hear the engine above 4000rpm, but the gearbox is dead silent.
In the Prius I could hear the whine from the CVT very good.
But yes, the CVT is very different to drive from conventional auto or manual gearboxes.
And yes the IS has a sound generator to make artificial engine and shifting sound. However, it can luckly be turned off, so you do not have to listen to the fake annoying sounds.
It also has a "manual" mode, that lets you shift gears on the CVT. This is basically just a gimmick, and is pretty useless for anything else than engine braking on long downhill decents.

I'm not tyring to force people to like the hybrids, but I feel that some of the earlier statements in this thread was a bit misleading.
However I feel that I might have been misunderstood a bit in my first post.
When I tried to compare the CVT to an old auto gear box, it was mostly to describe how i feel that it is possible to make the CVT in the IS react. It does not have to go to max rpm to get acceleration, and decent speed. It is possible to keep it at low rpm and get speed without getting a lot of engine and transmisson noice.

And for FinaLpeace:
The IS is not a sportcar. It will never be a sportscar no matter what you name it. The IS350 is a sporty four door saloon, just like the bmw 3 series.
The IS 250 is a normal four door saloon car, that might be setup a bit sporty, but it is not a sportscar. It does not have a sportscar engine, it does not have a sportcar layout hence it having 4 doors and 5 seats. It is heavy and does not really have anything going for it in the sportscar catergory. It is as I stated earlier a comfortable cruiser in the luxury car segment.
The RC is closer to a sportscar, as it is a two door coupe. The RC-F is a sportscar. The engine and suspension setup is in the sportscar cathegory.
However a real sportcar is built from the bottom for preformance, and not for anything else. In europe we use the term "grand tourer" form the italian "gran turisimo" for a lot of powerful saloons and coupes. Like the porsche panamera, bmw m5 and so on.
But still the IS250 or IS300h is nowhere close to the sportscar teritory. It is just a good handling four door salon, and a direct competitor to the merc c-class as you refer to as top of the line luxury viechle in its class.

Sure? Have you ever driven both?
With a prius I used about 4,9liters per 100km, because i always had to push it a bit to keep up with traffic.
In my IS300h I use about 5,5 liters per 100km, as it has enough power and I don't have to push it as hard.
Yes the prius runs a bit cheaper, but not that much. Without my highway driving I would probabaly use under 5,0 liters per 100km as the IS300h can run electrically up to 70km\h.
I have actually driving it as low as 4,0 liters per 100km over a 40km stretch of country roads, with 70km\h speed limit.
But a diesel engine would run just as cheap.

I stated through the thread why it was very different form a prius. But since the class they belong in is two different worlds, and the only thing they have in common is that they are both hybrids, so yes I feel it is wrong to compare them. It's like comparing a IS350 to a Nissan Skyline R35. They are both V6 engined cars, but thats about the only thing they have in common.


Well compare the interior and extrior of the IS to a ferrari or pagani and to a jaguar or a merc c-class. What looks most like the lexus? The IS has it's own very nice aggresive desgin of the exterior and a very nice and sporty interior. The seats in the F-sport are probably among the most comfortable in the world.
I'd say it is the best of two worlds. Both luxrious and sporty.
If you want the IS to be a sportscar so bad, why didn't you just buy a proper one? Mercedes have the SLK, and the SL. Bmw have the Z series, the I8, and the m4.
There is nissan skyline and if you have to have 4 doors and 5 seats there is always the Subaru wrx sti or the mitsubishi Evo.

Did compare the old merc class to the IS before I bought the IS. They were pretty close in levels of luxury and comfort. But due to the hybrid beeing given huge price reductions here, the IS was a lot cheaper.
But like it or not, the c-class and the IS are close competitors. Together with the bmw 3 series and the the Audi A4.

Don't need to coment more about this now, as I've already explained why the IS250 is not a sportscar. The c-class does not become a sportscar even if someone throws something named sport into the name. The Audi A4 does not become a sportscar because some one throws the S line package on it (sport line).

You are actually right about the part about the Es, that I did miss out. Because there were a couple of thing I felt were wrong in the previous statements, I got a bit hung opp on commenting on those.

If you don't mean to be offensive, why are you using such patronizing language when commenting my post?

Im2bz2p345

So I have to admit that when FinaLpeace & vuong05 brought up the GS450h in this thread, it made me think twice about whether I want to continue to pursue purchasing a 2015 IS350 F Sport (probably sometime next year).

I've seen a few used (one owner) 2013 GS450h's sell in the upper 40's with a few thousands miles on them. That just about compares to what a new IS350 F-Sport goes for.

I honestly would love a "performance" hybrid that wasn't as large as the GS450h. I was considering the Infiniti Q50S hybrid RWD (which averages about 28-29 mpg in the real world), but I just hated the way it drove/handled when I test drove it.

If Lexus could put the hybrid engine from the GS450h into the IS350 F-Sport, while NOT increasing the weight a ton, there would no other cars that I would ever consider. Who wouldn't want a car that can maintain the characteristics of an IS350 F-Sport, be way quicker off the line (provide massive torque), and also could get 29 city/34+ hwy mileage? If Lexus offered that while keeping the price in the lower-mid 50's, I can guarantee people would could care less about things like "CVT transmission," "exhaust sound," "front grill," etc etc.

To me, what I will be missing out on the GS450h is the awesome driveability around corners that the IS has. The IS350 is considerably smaller in size (the GS450h is the size of a Nissan Maxima and I don't have a family/people that will occupy the back seats all the time).

To me, the "perfect" practical car is the Tesla Model S P85+ (Performance Package), which I've had the pleasure to extensively drive.. but I'm not paying 100K for a car anytime soon. I usually buy cars outright and keep them for 8+ years.. so I know with my next car, it will probably last me long enough until electric car technology advances considerably & comes down in cost. I believe that's the future of everyday vehicles, so I need something to hold me off until then, hence the Lexus

~ Im2bz2p345

boe

Looks like the RC300h won't be coming to the US either.
http://www.torquenews.com/1083/real-...coming-america