Built-in Nav - why you should avoid
#18
Pole Position
Like people said, navigation systems typically come in packages, especially for the 3IS in Canada. This means you have to have nav if you want this or that other option.
Whenever I need to go somewhere (locally) I just check Google Maps on my laptop before leaving home and I memorize my way (because i know my cities very well so it makes it easier to memorize). For 99% of my driving I don't need a gps, and for the other 1% I could use my phone... however that drains my battery so I'd rather use the car's system.
Whenever I need to go somewhere (locally) I just check Google Maps on my laptop before leaving home and I memorize my way (because i know my cities very well so it makes it easier to memorize). For 99% of my driving I don't need a gps, and for the other 1% I could use my phone... however that drains my battery so I'd rather use the car's system.
#19
#20
I'm guess that's why after people trade in their wife a couple times, they file for bankruptcy.
#21
Lexus Test Driver
Lexus went with ML don't see why they couldn't go with Garmin or Tom Tom. Source the best and put it into the car. Like Apple who admitted their nav was less than stellar Lexus should stay out of mediocrity and do what they do best.
#22
Driver School Candidate
Join Date: Aug 2014
Location: CA
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I have the Nav on my vehicle and so far I have not had any issues with the Nav. It does ask me to re-route in heavy traffic. However, I do use a Garmin Navi for a back up just in case.
#23
Driver
Thread Starter
If Lexus started offering Garmin as an option, they would spend more money trying to integrate it than the actual GPS is worth, then everyone would be forced to pay more for something they can get at a big box store for $100. Also every other car maker would just do the same.
I think that we are moving toward better phone integration with the car is probably the right thing to do. If they could figure out a way to make the car screen integrate effortlessly with offerings from Garmin/TomTom then that would be great, the consumer could choose their own auto GPS and there could be an interface standard that makes it all work together with the display mirroring to the car, the controller of the car working the UI of the GPS when needed, etc.
#24
Lexus Fanatic
I completely disagree on all counts.
Resale: I've never bought a used car, but I've come close each time I've bought a new car over the past 10 years. Whenever I spot a good looking CPO car at a really great price...a click in reveals it has no nav. Luxury car buyers want navigation on the whole, and from my vantage point looking at CPO cars 3-4 years old...the cheap ones are the ones without nav...and that spread is way more than "a few hundred dollars".
Convenience: I just don't want to stick some aftermarket unit on my dash, deal with a cord, deal with a mount. I don't want to use my phone because I manipulate my phone when driving, I check texts and email at red lights, etc. I use the nav on an almost daily basis, and remembering to put up and plug in and unplug...obnoxious and then I have an ugly GPS unit and/or an ugmy mount in my nice interior all the time...no thanks.
Functionality: This I have never understood. Yes aftermarket units have more functions and features...but how many features do you need? I need the GPS to display a map on the screen when I'm not using it, and to give me guidance how to get someplace I don't know how to get to. Thats all. Traffic is a gimmick. My new Jeep reroutes for traffic dynamically and thats just annoying because there is no road here without traffic. I've used the Lexus system for 11 years now...it works fine. I've had two generations of Garmin in the Jeeps (Chrysler has Garmin built in) and in a portable I use for travel...I prefer the Lexus system even if the Garmin gives me more functions I don't want or need. The Garmin system in the Jeep is needlessly complex, has too many functions, and the routing logic is screwy as hell.
I would never buy a car again without built in nav, used or new...and I think more buyers are like me than you think, which is why its all but standard in anything but entry level luxury cars. I.E the only Lexus vehicles even available without nav are the IS, CT, ES and RX.
Resale: I've never bought a used car, but I've come close each time I've bought a new car over the past 10 years. Whenever I spot a good looking CPO car at a really great price...a click in reveals it has no nav. Luxury car buyers want navigation on the whole, and from my vantage point looking at CPO cars 3-4 years old...the cheap ones are the ones without nav...and that spread is way more than "a few hundred dollars".
Convenience: I just don't want to stick some aftermarket unit on my dash, deal with a cord, deal with a mount. I don't want to use my phone because I manipulate my phone when driving, I check texts and email at red lights, etc. I use the nav on an almost daily basis, and remembering to put up and plug in and unplug...obnoxious and then I have an ugly GPS unit and/or an ugmy mount in my nice interior all the time...no thanks.
Functionality: This I have never understood. Yes aftermarket units have more functions and features...but how many features do you need? I need the GPS to display a map on the screen when I'm not using it, and to give me guidance how to get someplace I don't know how to get to. Thats all. Traffic is a gimmick. My new Jeep reroutes for traffic dynamically and thats just annoying because there is no road here without traffic. I've used the Lexus system for 11 years now...it works fine. I've had two generations of Garmin in the Jeeps (Chrysler has Garmin built in) and in a portable I use for travel...I prefer the Lexus system even if the Garmin gives me more functions I don't want or need. The Garmin system in the Jeep is needlessly complex, has too many functions, and the routing logic is screwy as hell.
I would never buy a car again without built in nav, used or new...and I think more buyers are like me than you think, which is why its all but standard in anything but entry level luxury cars. I.E the only Lexus vehicles even available without nav are the IS, CT, ES and RX.
#25
Driver
Thread Starter
I completely disagree on all counts.
Resale: I've never bought a used car, but I've come close each time I've bought a new car over the past 10 years. Whenever I spot a good looking CPO car at a really great price...a click in reveals it has no nav. Luxury car buyers want navigation on the whole, and from my vantage point looking at CPO cars 3-4 years old...the cheap ones are the ones without nav...and that spread is way more than "a few hundred dollars".
Resale: I've never bought a used car, but I've come close each time I've bought a new car over the past 10 years. Whenever I spot a good looking CPO car at a really great price...a click in reveals it has no nav. Luxury car buyers want navigation on the whole, and from my vantage point looking at CPO cars 3-4 years old...the cheap ones are the ones without nav...and that spread is way more than "a few hundred dollars".
Your arguments here are more opinion than data. Not to discourage those of course, but stating that you'd never buy a car without a nav is a feeble attempt to challenge the statement that navs lose big on resale value. I'm only asking that you understand the difference between opinion and facts like the delta between new cost and resale.
I do agree however that some aspects of the discussion are subjective and a matter of preference. I'm all for integrated systems, I just wish these car manufacturers would (1) implement decent ones (2) stop fleecing their customers on map updates and (3) stop integrating the nav systems so tightly that if you ever run into a defect out of warranty, the nav unit alone is replacable for the couple of hundred bucks it really costs rather than the $8000 bill you'll really receive, ala "oh the nav system is integrated with the climate control and all those other parts so we have to replace the entire unit" has been heard by more than one chagrined customer.
When you can get a better performing Garmin with lifetime free map updates for something like $150, and take it with you to your next car, (or just use your phone) it makes the sticker shock of modern nav options seem really silly. These car makers are still living in the 90s with regard to nav and the sheep just continue to line up and take their spanking and say "thank you sir may I have another"
Last edited by dasbuch; 08-20-14 at 09:45 AM.
#26
Lexus Fanatic
Naturally you're free to disagree as you choose, but please understand the difference between fact and opinion. My original post asks the potential challenger to compare the actual value of resale value a nav system in a used car relative to the original cost of the nav option. Note that in some used car value systems you should be looking at the value that the nav option in isolation adds to the value of the used car, NOT the overall cost of the car. Some valuation sites may or may not allow you to see the value of nav individually.
Remember too that when talking about a Lexus, navigation is never a stand alone option. It always comes with a package that gives you additional features for a package cost. Non-nav Lexus vehicles don't have enform, they don't have the RTC, so on and so forth.
Your arguments here are more opinion than data. Not to discourage those of course, but stating that you'd never buy a car without a nav is a feeble attempt to challenge the statement that navs lose big on resale value. I'm only asking that you understand the difference between opinion and facts like the delta between new cost and resale.
I do agree however that some aspects of the discussion are subjective and a matter of preference.
(1) implement decent ones
(2) stop fleecing their customers on map updates
(3) stop integrating the nav systems so tightly that if you ever run into a defect out of warranty, the nav unit alone is replacable for the couple of hundred bucks it really costs rather than the $8000 bill you'll really receive, ala "oh the nav system is integrated with the climate control and all those other parts so we have to replace the entire unit" has been heard by more than one chagrined customer.
You know the 3.5L V6 in the IS is like $18,000. Your argument is like saying that manufacturers shouldn't put such high end engines in a car because the customer wiill someday be stuck with that repair bill. Well...that argument is meaningless because that likely never would happen.
When you can get a better performing Garmin with lifetime free map updates for something like $150, and take it with you to your next car, (or just use your phone) it makes the sticker shock of modern nav options seem really silly. These car makers are still living in the 90s with regard to nav and the sheep just continue to line up and take their spanking and say "thank you sir may I have another"
As for behavior of consumers...Consumers want built in OEM nav...obviously. You don't want that, so don't buy it, but don't tell the majority of consumers we're idiots or blast manufacturers for delivering the product most consumers want because you disagree.
#27
Lexus Champion
I bought nav in both of my cars because it's a feature I use daily and benefit from. I made up my own decision based on my needs and wants. Both of my cars were available without nav, but I chose to purchase it, not because I am a "sheep" who is incapable of making my own decisions.
#28
I'm going to contribute my 2 cents, because I feel I might offer a different perspective. When I was looking at buying my new car, I specifically looked for a non-nav model. Mainly because I'm very comfortable with my phone, and I feel that I would not lose too much on the resale value, or at least not enough to justify the extra 2-3 grand up front. Having said that, I did know that I would lose enform, back up camera, and the nice things that come with including nav.
My biggest issue with this is not that I would lose some of those nice to haves, but the fact that I now know how easy it would be to throw in nav, really, at no additional cost. Let me explain: Having the HD radio traffic, it will still tell me where I am, and the icon still moves with me on the display map in real time. The only function I'm losing is zooming in and turn by turn. So now, the question is, why didn't they just add in the whole system in the first place if it obviously could've been done easily.
But setting all that aside, I think the biggest issue in the discussion is cost vs value. I personally don't see the value because I still get traffic, and my phone will route me when I need to get routed somewhere. Not as streamlined as the built in nav, but gets the job done very well for me. Others will see value in getting nav and don't mind paying for it and that's ok, that's what manufacturers are counting on, that people will want it configured to their liking. But based on my experience, I would say that it's very easy for manufacturers to just throw it in and they are banking on the fact the they can still get people to pay for it.
My biggest issue with this is not that I would lose some of those nice to haves, but the fact that I now know how easy it would be to throw in nav, really, at no additional cost. Let me explain: Having the HD radio traffic, it will still tell me where I am, and the icon still moves with me on the display map in real time. The only function I'm losing is zooming in and turn by turn. So now, the question is, why didn't they just add in the whole system in the first place if it obviously could've been done easily.
But setting all that aside, I think the biggest issue in the discussion is cost vs value. I personally don't see the value because I still get traffic, and my phone will route me when I need to get routed somewhere. Not as streamlined as the built in nav, but gets the job done very well for me. Others will see value in getting nav and don't mind paying for it and that's ok, that's what manufacturers are counting on, that people will want it configured to their liking. But based on my experience, I would say that it's very easy for manufacturers to just throw it in and they are banking on the fact the they can still get people to pay for it.
#29
Driver
Thread Starter
As far as data, go to KBB, Blackbook, etc and run the numbers with or without nav as I told you.
I could give you exact numbers for my region (the data you asked for), but they may be slightly different for your own region. Or if you prefer to remain comfortable in your present thinking, then feel free not to, its really up to you.
#30
Driver
Thread Starter
I bought nav in both of my cars because it's a feature I use daily and benefit from. I made up my own decision based on my needs and wants. Both of my cars were available without nav, but I chose to purchase it, not because I am a "sheep" who is incapable of making my own decisions.