IS350 F Sport Underpower against Germans?
03-12-14, 07:52 PM
#31
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Sorry, but you're the one who is wrong. No offense to the F-Sport owners, but it's clearly a MOSTLY cosmetic package. Yes, I know there's a suspension upgrade, but to compare it to BMW's M-cars or Audi's RS cars is clearly not appropriate.
Check out the hardware on an M3 sometime. More powerful motor. Bigger brakes. Limited-slip differential. They even replace a lot of the steel suspension components with beefy cast-aluminum parts.
Anyway, maybe I'm just old, but I'm not competing with other drivers, and 3.5L 306 HP motor is plenty powerful. The motor may be an "old" design, but that's cost savings that (hopefully) were passed-on to the consumer. If anyone doesn't like the package that Lexus offers, they are free to shop elsewhere.
Check out the hardware on an M3 sometime. More powerful motor. Bigger brakes. Limited-slip differential. They even replace a lot of the steel suspension components with beefy cast-aluminum parts.
Anyway, maybe I'm just old, but I'm not competing with other drivers, and 3.5L 306 HP motor is plenty powerful. The motor may be an "old" design, but that's cost savings that (hopefully) were passed-on to the consumer. If anyone doesn't like the package that Lexus offers, they are free to shop elsewhere.
03-12-14, 07:58 PM
#32
Lexus Test Driver
You are WRONG.
1. The IS-F is not luxury. It is Lexus's sport tune division of cars.
2. The Audi RS4 is Audi's sport tune division car.
3. The M3 is not the top of the sports luxury market. It is BMW's sport tune division.
4. Same goes with Mercedes
5. CTS is not even in this class of cars.
IS-F = RS4 = M3 = C63 = Sport tuned models
IS350 = 335i = S4 = C350 (soon to be C400) = sport luxury models
1. The IS-F is not luxury. It is Lexus's sport tune division of cars.
2. The Audi RS4 is Audi's sport tune division car.
3. The M3 is not the top of the sports luxury market. It is BMW's sport tune division.
4. Same goes with Mercedes
5. CTS is not even in this class of cars.
IS-F = RS4 = M3 = C63 = Sport tuned models
IS350 = 335i = S4 = C350 (soon to be C400) = sport luxury models
1. IS-F is IDENTICAL to all ISx50's body/interior wise but its not luxury like the rest of the IS cars? That doesn't even make any sense. F-Sport line is pretty much based off the IS-F and like the IS-f to ISx50's 85% of the parts are interchangable
2. Audi RS4 IS the sport tuned version of the car so you are right but its ONLY offered in wagon making it NOT a sedan
3. The M3 is the top of the line of the BMW 3 series line. and every BMW has a M-series car, M1/M3/M5/M6/M7. The 3 series is the line comparable to the IS350
4. Just like lexus, there is a C250/C350/C63AMG. Making the AMG the TOP TEIR OF THE LINE!
5. Please explain how the CTS-v is not even in the Sport Luxury class? Its defined by GM as "A MIDSIZED LUXURY SPORTS CAR" just like the C-Class, 3-series, A4/S4, and IS. I would love to hear this answer
You guys are separating it by price which is wrong IMO. If everything was separated by price then a LS would be in the same class as a CTS-V which it is clearly not
Last edited by NYKnick101; 03-12-14 at 08:05 PM.
03-12-14, 08:02 PM
#34
Lexus Test Driver
Not exactly true.
The Germans are designed to have flaws so they can make profit on repairing.
They are so well engineered that if the warranty expires tomorrow it will break down the day after.
If you know the tech from the dealers they will tell you stay away from the modern Germans.
The Germans are designed to have flaws so they can make profit on repairing.
They are so well engineered that if the warranty expires tomorrow it will break down the day after.
If you know the tech from the dealers they will tell you stay away from the modern Germans.
03-12-14, 08:06 PM
#35
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Umm how am i wrong
1. IS-F is IDENTICAL to all ISx50's body/interior wise but its not luxury like the rest of the IS cars? That doesn't even make any sense. F-Sport line is pretty much based off the IS-F and like the IS-f to ISx50's all the parts are interchangable
2. Audi RS4 IS the sport tuned version of the car so you are right but its ONLY offered in wagon making it NOT a sedan
3. The M3 is the top of the line of the BMW 3 series line. and every BMW has a M-series car, M1/M3/M5/M6/M7. The 3 series is the line comparable to the IS350
4. Just like lexus, there is a C250/C350/C63AMG. Making the AMG the TOP TEIR OF THE LINE!
5. Please explain how the CTS is not even in the Sport Luxury class? Its defined by GM as "A MIDSIZED LUXURY SPORTS CAR" just like the C-Class, 3-series, A4/S4, and IS. I would love to hear this answer
1. IS-F is IDENTICAL to all ISx50's body/interior wise but its not luxury like the rest of the IS cars? That doesn't even make any sense. F-Sport line is pretty much based off the IS-F and like the IS-f to ISx50's all the parts are interchangable
2. Audi RS4 IS the sport tuned version of the car so you are right but its ONLY offered in wagon making it NOT a sedan
3. The M3 is the top of the line of the BMW 3 series line. and every BMW has a M-series car, M1/M3/M5/M6/M7. The 3 series is the line comparable to the IS350
4. Just like lexus, there is a C250/C350/C63AMG. Making the AMG the TOP TEIR OF THE LINE!
5. Please explain how the CTS is not even in the Sport Luxury class? Its defined by GM as "A MIDSIZED LUXURY SPORTS CAR" just like the C-Class, 3-series, A4/S4, and IS. I would love to hear this answer
2. M3 is the sport tuned car that is comparable to the IS-F. The 335i is comparable to the IS350 F Sport because they are both in the entry luxury sports sedan segment.
3. Again, C63 AMG is comparable to the sport tuned IS-F. The C350 and IS350 F Sport are comparable because they are in the entry luxury sports sedan segment.
4. If you can't tell why the CTS does not compete with the C Class, 3 Series, S4, and IS, then I can't help you. Please go take a look at their sizes. The ATS competes with the C Class, 3 Series, S4, and IS350 - NOT the CTS.
03-12-14, 08:09 PM
#36
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Here is more for you to nibble on. These magazines compared the cars accordingly because they are in the SAME class:
http://www.motortrend.com/roadtests/...50_comparison/
http://www.autoevolution.com/news/20...son-60177.html
http://www.roadandtrack.com/car-revi...n-65-3-roa1013
And trust me. I trust these magazines a HECK of a lot more than someone who can't reason why the CTS is not a IS350 competitor.
http://www.motortrend.com/roadtests/...50_comparison/
http://www.autoevolution.com/news/20...son-60177.html
http://www.roadandtrack.com/car-revi...n-65-3-roa1013
And trust me. I trust these magazines a HECK of a lot more than someone who can't reason why the CTS is not a IS350 competitor.
03-12-14, 08:15 PM
#37
Umm how am i wrong
1. IS-F is IDENTICAL to all ISx50's body/interior wise but its not luxury like the rest of the IS cars? That doesn't even make any sense. F-Sport line is pretty much based off the IS-F and like the IS-f to ISx50's 85% of the parts are interchangable
2. Audi RS4 IS the sport tuned version of the car so you are right but its ONLY offered in wagon making it NOT a sedan
3. The M3 is the top of the line of the BMW 3 series line. and every BMW has a M-series car, M1/M3/M5/M6/M7. The 3 series is the line comparable to the IS350
4. Just like lexus, there is a C250/C350/C63AMG. Making the AMG the TOP TEIR OF THE LINE!
5. Please explain how the CTS-v is not even in the Sport Luxury class? Its defined by GM as "A MIDSIZED LUXURY SPORTS CAR" just like the C-Class, 3-series, A4/S4, and IS. I would love to hear this answer
You guys are separating it by price which is wrong IMO. If everything was separated by price then a LS would be in the same class as a CTS-V which it is clearly not
1. IS-F is IDENTICAL to all ISx50's body/interior wise but its not luxury like the rest of the IS cars? That doesn't even make any sense. F-Sport line is pretty much based off the IS-F and like the IS-f to ISx50's 85% of the parts are interchangable
2. Audi RS4 IS the sport tuned version of the car so you are right but its ONLY offered in wagon making it NOT a sedan
3. The M3 is the top of the line of the BMW 3 series line. and every BMW has a M-series car, M1/M3/M5/M6/M7. The 3 series is the line comparable to the IS350
4. Just like lexus, there is a C250/C350/C63AMG. Making the AMG the TOP TEIR OF THE LINE!
5. Please explain how the CTS-v is not even in the Sport Luxury class? Its defined by GM as "A MIDSIZED LUXURY SPORTS CAR" just like the C-Class, 3-series, A4/S4, and IS. I would love to hear this answer
You guys are separating it by price which is wrong IMO. If everything was separated by price then a LS would be in the same class as a CTS-V which it is clearly not
You are wrong because:
1: Are you missing there are 3 digits between IS and F so making it NOT the IS-F which is the same cass as M3, RS4, C63 which cost over 30~40%?
2: M3 is NOT the top line of 3-series. 335i is the top of the 3 Series. If you goes on the BMW web site M3 is NOT under 3-series its under M-Series.
3: Regardless of the body style of RS4 its still the performance version of the entry level of luxury sedan.
4: Same as point 2.
5. You know the CTS is mid size sedan which makes it the same class as 5-series, E-class, Q70, A6, GS etc in price-wise and size-wise. The ATS is the entry level luxury sedan in IS, 3-series, A/S4, C-class, Q50, etc.
03-12-14, 08:22 PM
#38
03-12-14, 08:23 PM
#39
It performs close if not better than the others
03-12-14, 08:26 PM
#40
The IS-F (NOT IS350 F-Sport) is the same entry level luxury performance vehicle segment as the M3, C63, RS4 etc in performance wise (416hp) and price wise (60g-ish) as the same generation of the others (E9x M3 414hp, B7 RS4 420hp, C63 469hp)
It performs close if not better than the others
It performs close if not better than the others
03-12-14, 08:30 PM
#41
Lexus Test Driver
So let me recap. with you two.
Because an IS-F doesnt have the 3 numbers doesnt make it a luxury sedan? Same goes as well with the M3
And Chris is saying because the IS-F has a V8 makes it not a luxury sedan even though just like the F sport has the sport tuned suspension and everything just like the IS-F. IDK what sheet metal has to do with anything.
And the RS4 is still a sedan even tho its a wagon?
and okay ill give you the CTS-V even though the ATS is classified as compact and the CTS is classified as midsize like the rest but what ever. But now ATS is even better because there is an ATS-V as well. I'm guessing thats not comparable to the IS-F either since it has a 400 hp V6 twin turbo
To clear this up, I agree the IS350 is comparable to the 3-series, A/S4, C-Class etc. but why is the IS-F/M3/c63/ats-v not NOT a sport luxury car event though made by a luxury car brand and classified as a luxury car like its successors? and why is it not the top teir when they clearly are? because something is sport tuned does not make it NOT A LUXURY CAR. If you really want to define luxury cars, NONE OF THESE CARS ARE BECAUSE NONE OF THEM ARE ACTUALLY LUXURIOUS LOL
And don't separate class by price. We are specifically talking Compact/Midsized luxury sedans here!
Because an IS-F doesnt have the 3 numbers doesnt make it a luxury sedan? Same goes as well with the M3
And Chris is saying because the IS-F has a V8 makes it not a luxury sedan even though just like the F sport has the sport tuned suspension and everything just like the IS-F. IDK what sheet metal has to do with anything.
And the RS4 is still a sedan even tho its a wagon?
and okay ill give you the CTS-V even though the ATS is classified as compact and the CTS is classified as midsize like the rest but what ever. But now ATS is even better because there is an ATS-V as well. I'm guessing thats not comparable to the IS-F either since it has a 400 hp V6 twin turbo
To clear this up, I agree the IS350 is comparable to the 3-series, A/S4, C-Class etc. but why is the IS-F/M3/c63/ats-v not NOT a sport luxury car event though made by a luxury car brand and classified as a luxury car like its successors? and why is it not the top teir when they clearly are? because something is sport tuned does not make it NOT A LUXURY CAR. If you really want to define luxury cars, NONE OF THESE CARS ARE BECAUSE NONE OF THEM ARE ACTUALLY LUXURIOUS LOL
And don't separate class by price. We are specifically talking Compact/Midsized luxury sedans here!
Last edited by NYKnick101; 03-12-14 at 08:41 PM.
03-12-14, 08:34 PM
#42
Oh gosh... so much whining! If engine speed is all you care about why didn't you guys buy a Mustang or a WRX STI or better yet a Stingray (3.8s 0-60!)...
Most car enthusiasts don't compare the S4 to the IS350. I think I've seen 1 review that did. If it didn't handle so poorly and had better reliability than what it has I would have bought the S4. Always loved them.
If I was BMW I'm not sure I'd be bragging my 335i competes with a car that costs $10k less and that my car lost its identify (no longer the funnest driving car around, in fact, it's boring). If I was Infiniti I'm not sure I'd brag my car has more HP than a IS350 but yet has almost the same 0-60 and a 1/4 mile time. If I was Cadillac I'm not sure I'd brag my car has more HP, almost the same torque but has the same 0-60 ...but/and a slower 1/4 mile and 0-100 romp.
Point
All cars have something to complain about. This topic is a very one-sided view. Grats you found the 1 true weakness of the IS. Now if you guys are really as open minded as you claim you will list the major faults with the other brands too.
Reality
All are great cars. All have something worthy of being a fan about. All have weaknesses keeping them from being perfect.
Most car enthusiasts don't compare the S4 to the IS350. I think I've seen 1 review that did. If it didn't handle so poorly and had better reliability than what it has I would have bought the S4. Always loved them.
If I was BMW I'm not sure I'd be bragging my 335i competes with a car that costs $10k less and that my car lost its identify (no longer the funnest driving car around, in fact, it's boring). If I was Infiniti I'm not sure I'd brag my car has more HP than a IS350 but yet has almost the same 0-60 and a 1/4 mile time. If I was Cadillac I'm not sure I'd brag my car has more HP, almost the same torque but has the same 0-60 ...but/and a slower 1/4 mile and 0-100 romp.
Point
All cars have something to complain about. This topic is a very one-sided view. Grats you found the 1 true weakness of the IS. Now if you guys are really as open minded as you claim you will list the major faults with the other brands too.
Reality
All are great cars. All have something worthy of being a fan about. All have weaknesses keeping them from being perfect.
03-12-14, 08:54 PM
#43
I have owned two Mercedes and three Lexus. All of them have had their own good and bad. They have all had their differences. I have enjoyed owning all of them. Different is just that, different. Just enjoy what you have now and then enjoy the next car too.
Aloha,
Larry
Aloha,
Larry
03-13-14, 12:30 AM
#45
Sorry, but you're the one who is wrong. No offense to the F-Sport owners, but it's clearly a MOSTLY cosmetic package. Yes, I know there's a suspension upgrade, but to compare it to BMW's M-cars or Audi's RS cars is clearly not appropriate.
Check out the hardware on an M3 sometime. More powerful motor. Bigger brakes. Limited-slip differential. They even replace a lot of the steel suspension components with beefy cast-aluminum parts.
Anyway, maybe I'm just old, but I'm not competing with other drivers, and 3.5L 306 HP motor is plenty powerful. The motor may be an "old" design, but that's cost savings that (hopefully) were passed-on to the consumer. If anyone doesn't like the package that Lexus offers, they are free to shop elsewhere.
Check out the hardware on an M3 sometime. More powerful motor. Bigger brakes. Limited-slip differential. They even replace a lot of the steel suspension components with beefy cast-aluminum parts.
Anyway, maybe I'm just old, but I'm not competing with other drivers, and 3.5L 306 HP motor is plenty powerful. The motor may be an "old" design, but that's cost savings that (hopefully) were passed-on to the consumer. If anyone doesn't like the package that Lexus offers, they are free to shop elsewhere.