Im2bz2p345

And the purpose of this is....? Obviously I know about every car having higher rev displayed on a tachometer and the higher speed shown on a speedometer (since I brought it up in my post), but my point was I don't see the purpose of having 200 mph on a speedometer if the car's engine can do a maximum of 140 mph.

If you consider "driving it like a manual" not being able to take the car into redline rpm range, then sure - I agree with you the IS350 behaves similiarly. Although, I don't know anyone that drives a manual sports car who hasn't shifted from the redline area (especially when acceletrating quickly from a stop). It's not an EVERYDAY thing for most, but at least you have that OPTION with a true manual transmission.

Lastly, please reference where I mentioned "revving beyond redline." I only mentioned being able to rev within the redline band (6.5k-8k rpm). I would have preferred that with an IS350 in "manual" mode, you're able to hold a gear until at least 7.5k rpm (or so) and then it would auto shift for you. That way you're actually able to unleash a lot of the engine's top end power (from 5.5k-7.5k). But I understand Lexus not wanting to allow this for reliability sake - especially since this car isn't mean to driven hard like that (again, they are thinking more relability & luxury, than pure "fun" sports car).

With Lexus' true sports car, the LFA, and I would laugh if it auto shifted for you before even letting you get close to redline. But this is a bad example since the redline starts at like 9k for the LFA, lol.

I've owned & driven a number of manual cars (including having the privileage to drive some exotics on a track). I currently have an automatic with manual shifting option and you just don't get the same level of control/feeling. There is a reason why many prefer to stick with a manual gearbox - especially for a purely "fun" sports car that might be a weekend warrior.

I would assume the IS350 is an everyday car for most people, so having an automatic gearbox makes more sense (especially for those who have to deal with a lot of traffic).

~ Im2bz2p345

TheShaddix

Out of all the manual cars i've had, none ever let me get past the red line (g35, 350z, civic si) and if they did, it would be for a fraction of a second before it hits the rev limiter (200 rpm or so). What's the point in that? So if the IS let you do that, you'd think it's a true sports car? Why not just shift it yourself before that, get into the next gear, and focus on your driving skills instead. It's about the perfect shift point in any car past which you're just wasting time that you could put into the next gear. Most of the time the torque/hp curve flattens out near redline for safety reasons so you're not getting any more power. It just gives you some time to shift. My Z was tuned that way specifically to avoid damage to the engine if you were to go past redline. To me fun is when it shifts quickly and there is no slip between the shifts, so driving through a twisty road is where this car shines the most, especially when lowered on some coilovers set to stiff. Saying it's not sporty enough then could only be true on the power aspect of it and the sound, but even that can be argued since it will beat an s2k, which you consider a true sports car, and I've ridden in that car and it felt like a toy to me. And Just because you can rev up a tiny engine to 9k does not mean it's sporty. It's just the only way it's able to make the extra power is by revving so high which I personally could care less about, i'd rather rev to 6k and have forced induction like on the 335i, where anything past 5-6k is just a waste of time. Point is that the point you're trying to make only seems to appeal to you because no one in their right mind cares about going past red line if they value their cars...All logic goes against what you're saying: on the reliability side as well as practically, and performance-wise. And another thing, from reading your posts I realize it's a good thing cars upshift by themselves because you sound like someone who likes to abuse your car and mis-label it "fun". I'm guessing you're in your early 20's ? The idea of fun becomes more civilized and tamed with age and you're just happy taking a spirited drive through some scenic curvy roads unless you're a die-hard speed demon who never really grows out of it.

Im2bz2p345

Again, it seems like a lot of people like to make assumptions here. I'm not young and I'm a working professional. I just thinking differently and enjoy different types of cars - no harm, no foul. No need to bash a guy for being different.

I love the IS350 for what is offers in terms of a "complete package." Again, I understand it's not meant to appeal to only sports car fans.

Clearly, I'm setting myself apart from the typical Lexus enthusiast since I love high revving engines. Hence, F1 cars are so appealing to me. Maybe you guys don't like them? Who knows.

Some videos which are dead sexy of the type of cars that I enjoy driving/racing on a track:



Watch how the engine just screams at the higher RPM's - this is definitely what I miss from the IS to make it more on the "sporty" side. It's geared toward luxury (low noise) and reliability (early shifts). It won't hold a gear like a true manual either (try staying above 6k rpm in it as you go through twisties). I have no problem with that since it's for a different market segment.

~ Im2bz2p345

dizlex

If it upshifts at redline, that does not bother me. I'm just really glad that it does not downshift when you stomp the gas. EVERY other brand of car that I've driven, including Porsche and BMW with dual-clutch trannies, ruin the "manual" experience by downshifting to get more RPM's when you stomp the gas, even when in "manual" mode.

So, those of you are are crying, don't!

dizlex

I believe that the above is wrong, and this is the point of my starting this thread.

Aeromotive

My bad, I didn't formulate my comment appropriately. I meant : what fun is there to go INTO redzone? Most cars are out of their power band at such high RPM's anyways (excluding very powerful cars maybe, not sure about the 3IS). And if you go and cross the redline, depending how wide your redzone is, you run the risk of hitting rev-limiter which gives you a sudden drop in performance.

dizlex

The whole thing is ridiculous. The guy seems to attached some significance to the tach going up to 8000 RPM. But there is none. There is NO reason for a normal street car to rev past what the manufacturer has determined is the maximum safe RPM or "redline".

As others have said, the torque is way down from peak by then, anyway.

Im2bz2p345

Thanks for pointing this pointing this out dizlex. Unfortunately I don't own the car and just had the opportunity to test drive the car (back when it first hit dealers), so I was trying to recall from my past experience with it.

Glad you started this topic, because I was looking to get clarification on the downshift as well.

Totally agree with you there.

Yes, I apologize. I haven't see a graph on power/torque numbers (a proper dyno) which states that the IS350 actually declines in power or levels off (peaks) if it starts getting into the higher RPM range (as it climbs past 6k rpm). Would love to see a graph of the power leveling off after 6k since people in this thread said that's when maximum power is attained. If anyone has a dyno, please post it up in this thread or create a new one.

I recently drove a 2012 Nissan GT-R which continues to push power (both HP&TQ) the higher RPM you go. I think it's around 6.5k rpm when experienced GT-R owners told me to shift. The redline on those is at 7k rpm btw. That car can climb 500 rpm (from 6.5k rpm - 7k rpm) before you can take a breath. That's what makes it so fun - it continues to push, the higher you go in rpm. Also, with having a dual clutch (sequential) transmission, the shifts was almost instantaneous. I still felt a slight pause/hesitation between shifts with the IS350 F-Sport and I test drove the top of the line RWD 8 speed, but maybe that's me - it might feel quick enough for most people.

Again, I'm just a fan of cars that have a high rpm range (their redline doesn't start at like 6k or 6.5k) and they continue to deliver power as rpm's go up (similar to a true F1 car).

Think what you want about my lack of knowledge, experience, or that I simply enjoy "abusing" cars. Don't hate, appreciate my friends

~ Im2bz2p345

WiLz

The official redline of the IS engine is 6600 RPM, which means the engine is not designed to operate above this RPM. The gauge goes up to 8000 RPM, but that is NOT the redline. There is no such thing as a "redline band"; this "redline band" you refer to is actually as arbitrary as speedometers that go up to 200 MPH (Lexus could have made the "band" end at 7000 RPM, or 10,000 RPM, means absolutely nothing). In addition, this engine makes its peak power around 6400 RPM anyway (Google "IS350 dyno" and you'll see plenty of results), so the risks greatly outweight the benefits of allowing the engine to be reved past 6600 RPM. Therefore, there is no reason the engine should be allowed to go above 6600 RPM.

The GT-R's redline is designed to be 7000 RPM, and like the IS, it will not let you rev above that limit. You cannot just compare the RPMs of 2 different engines, and think that all engines should go above 7000 RPM.

Slust

All cars lose power at the upper end of a gear... http://www.drivingfast.net/car-control/rev-matching.htm


Not everyone feels the same way. Matt Farah is most definitely not a Lexus fan. In fact, I don't recall seeing him saying anything nice till this review...


@730 The car dips into the redline...
@808 Matt Farah talks about this very subject

Im2bz2p345

Yes, I've seen this video Slust. Thanks for posting it and pointing out these things.

Just a note though, at 7:30 in the video when the car goes into redline but the car is not in any driving gear (hence it says 0 mph and "P" for Park). This is similar to the S2K video that I posted above. With the IS350, you would not be able to replicate this if the car was actually in a driving gear (whether auto or manual mode).

At 8:08, it almost sounds like he bounced off the rev limiter - we can't see his instrument cluster here, so it's tough to know where he's at in terms of rpm. I do remember a thread discussing this on CL and some people mentioned that you can only hold a gear (prevent the car from auto-shifting up) if the car senses you are in a turn - otherwise, it's not possible.

~ Im2bz2p345

Slust

I've hit redline myself driving in Sport+ but I have no video proof of that. And on the internet, if you don't have pics it didn't happen so I provided that video.

It's true we can't see his Tach but that is the sound it makes when you are in the red. Problem with discussing these kinds of scenarios only going based off test drives like you are is that test drives are very limited. I'm not sure why you are set on arguing with people who actually own the car but if you want to prove us wrong you need to provide the proof, not the other way around.

At 8:08 though, that is most definitely the sound the car makes when you make it into the redzone.

JGard18

Thank you for saving me the time to explain that, too. haha

bhvrdr

My .02

I'm getting ready for a lap day in the IS350 and the Boxster this Saturday. I only have had the car for 200 miles so I was just trying to figure out the behavior of manual mode. Here is what I found.

In manual mode it will automatically upshift at the same redline as in sport mode ... ~6600rpm

The con to this will not be known by most people. It is that if you are approaching a turn and the car is near redline it will automatically upshift for you. This places you now at least two gears outside of where you need to be as you approach a braking zone and set up for the turn. You now need to get the car quickly down 2 gears before you start the turn so the rear end is not upset. As I was saying though, 99.99% of lexus drivers will never have to deal with this.

For downshifting, I have not been able to get it to auto downshift while in manual mode. I have stomped on it and it wont seem to do it. It will auto downshift only when you drop the engine speed down below the allowable minimum revs from braking. This, I like.

Mike

Slash300zx

The peak hp is at 6400 rpms and the peak torque is at 4800 so there is no reason to go past the redline at all, the sweet spot on the car is between 4500-6400 rpm.

I know the car won't downshift and I barely ever redline it but I thought it auto upshift from 1st to 2nd only? I'd have to try it but I think the rest of the gears I've had to shift manually... I dunno, maybe I was shifting before the automatic cutoff...