The Eight Biggest Product Flops of 2013
12-19-13, 10:19 PM
#31
Lexus Test Driver
Huh? I agree IS250 should not be judged solely on the acceleration numbers, but still I am not sure how that example could be applied to an IS250 since LFA performance was about way more than just acceleration.
Still even today 11.4 - 11.5 seconds in the 1/4 mile and 125 - 126 mph trap speed are far from "slow" by any stretch and so is 60 - 165 mph in only 16.6 seconds. You would see reviews calling it"scary fast", "bloody fast" etc., but never "slow". LFA also was a Nurburgring record setter and near top lap times on majority of the race tracks.
Even against much quicker 599 GTO or Aventador, it made up for it with exclusivity, superior chassis balance, agility, steering and the engine sound/response and won against them.
The issue of some tests with poor 0 - 60 mph is more of an issue of a conservative launch control that cuts back power to preserve the transmission and also lack of sticky R compound super slick tires so that it can put down all its power off the line in the most efficient way.
Still once on a rolling start, which is what real world acceleration is all about, LFA acceleration was on par or quicker than majority of the supercars north of $200K.
No one ever disputed LFA was an extremely fast car by any standards of high performance. It is just that the hater angle was not twice as quick as a car that cost $200K, which is why it was so easy to hate on being a Lexus.
Still even today 11.4 - 11.5 seconds in the 1/4 mile and 125 - 126 mph trap speed are far from "slow" by any stretch and so is 60 - 165 mph in only 16.6 seconds. You would see reviews calling it"scary fast", "bloody fast" etc., but never "slow". LFA also was a Nurburgring record setter and near top lap times on majority of the race tracks.
Even against much quicker 599 GTO or Aventador, it made up for it with exclusivity, superior chassis balance, agility, steering and the engine sound/response and won against them.
The issue of some tests with poor 0 - 60 mph is more of an issue of a conservative launch control that cuts back power to preserve the transmission and also lack of sticky R compound super slick tires so that it can put down all its power off the line in the most efficient way.
Still once on a rolling start, which is what real world acceleration is all about, LFA acceleration was on par or quicker than majority of the supercars north of $200K.
No one ever disputed LFA was an extremely fast car by any standards of high performance. It is just that the hater angle was not twice as quick as a car that cost $200K, which is why it was so easy to hate on being a Lexus.
Last edited by 05RollaXRS; 12-19-13 at 11:15 PM.
12-19-13, 11:06 PM
#32
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I am currently driving IS 250 (non-F) as a loaner from Lexus while I wait for my car to come in. Anyone who says its a flop is completely biased, especially since sales are on the rise. If sales were tanking then it is fair to call it a flop.
I think McBrain is right though, it is suffering a bit of a identity crises. To be honest, I would have been happy with a 250 if they had upgraded the HP to 250-260ish. The 250 is still a fun car. Really the only thing it is missing is that extra zooom.
As much as I like UncleSpud's posts the nitpicker in me is strong today, sorry Spud. The base Mustang is not faster than the IS350. The Mustang is 5.8 - 6.0 and the IS350 is 5.5 - 5.6 ...and that is with the IS350 being 200lbs heavier. While not far from, the 350 also does not cost twice as much as a Stang, unless you are comparing a base Mustang to an F-Sport with options on it. I do agree that Lexus needs to give its IS lineup some steroids and overall I too prefer V6.
Though I personally don't think there is anything wrong with 4 bangers. If you want that sport feel than the WRX's boxer engine rocks. If you want something more refined the 328i offers a great engine as well. The 328i will nab 35mpg on the highway or around 43mpg if you put it in Eco Pro mode. No V6 I know of can compete with that. If you put the 328i engine in a IS250 F-Sport that would be a solid freaking car. I actually liked the 328i but the numb handling and over priced options were two HUGE turn offs. When I can buy an F-Sport 350 for the same price (or less) of a 328i with almost the same option packages than the BMW loses ALL appeal. I really liked the engine in the 328i. It was very smooth. You could feel when turbo kicked but it too was very smooth. In some ways it was too smooth. Since the handling was so numb the turbo kicking in was the only real feel so it being so smooth left me kinda bored. So 4 bangers can be really smooth and same with turbos.
I think moving the IS250 to a turbo charged 4 banger would be a good move. Just make sure it keeps its current handling and it will do fine. The smaller engine would lighten the load, but I would probably still lower the weight on the 250 if they make it a 4-banger ...even if that means making it smaller and sacrificing leg room in the back.
I think McBrain is right though, it is suffering a bit of a identity crises. To be honest, I would have been happy with a 250 if they had upgraded the HP to 250-260ish. The 250 is still a fun car. Really the only thing it is missing is that extra zooom.
As much as I like UncleSpud's posts the nitpicker in me is strong today, sorry Spud. The base Mustang is not faster than the IS350. The Mustang is 5.8 - 6.0 and the IS350 is 5.5 - 5.6 ...and that is with the IS350 being 200lbs heavier. While not far from, the 350 also does not cost twice as much as a Stang, unless you are comparing a base Mustang to an F-Sport with options on it. I do agree that Lexus needs to give its IS lineup some steroids and overall I too prefer V6.
Though I personally don't think there is anything wrong with 4 bangers. If you want that sport feel than the WRX's boxer engine rocks. If you want something more refined the 328i offers a great engine as well. The 328i will nab 35mpg on the highway or around 43mpg if you put it in Eco Pro mode. No V6 I know of can compete with that. If you put the 328i engine in a IS250 F-Sport that would be a solid freaking car. I actually liked the 328i but the numb handling and over priced options were two HUGE turn offs. When I can buy an F-Sport 350 for the same price (or less) of a 328i with almost the same option packages than the BMW loses ALL appeal. I really liked the engine in the 328i. It was very smooth. You could feel when turbo kicked but it too was very smooth. In some ways it was too smooth. Since the handling was so numb the turbo kicking in was the only real feel so it being so smooth left me kinda bored. So 4 bangers can be really smooth and same with turbos.
I think moving the IS250 to a turbo charged 4 banger would be a good move. Just make sure it keeps its current handling and it will do fine. The smaller engine would lighten the load, but I would probably still lower the weight on the 250 if they make it a 4-banger ...even if that means making it smaller and sacrificing leg room in the back.
As for 4-bangers, I almost bought a '14 328i with the M suspension. As with you, horrible steering and ridiculous pricing killed it for me. Mileage was impressive, and it was as fast as the IS 350 while giving up 66HP to the Lexus (what does that tell you about our under achieving V6's?). YMMV, but I didn't think it nearly as smooth as our V6 or the great Bimmer inline sixes of the past. If you really like 4-cylinder motors, would you be willing to pay $50K for a Jag XF with a 2 liter 4? It's a stretch to pay $50K or more for a car and then wind up with only 4 cylinders. You want great mileage from a V6? Look at Honda's 2013 Accord V6 that gets 34 mpg highway and is nearly as fast as our 350's.
I agree that Lexus needs to do something to punch up the 250, but I don't know if Toyota can field a polished 4-banger and still be "Lexus-smooth."
Last edited by UncleSpud; 12-19-13 at 11:15 PM.
12-19-13, 11:19 PM
#33
Lexus Test Driver
The engine is not under achieving. I did a gear ratio/final ratio comparison and as it turns out, Lexus just stretched the gear ratios in the 8 speed automatic for better fuel economy and spread it wider in the first four gears combined with a taller final drive. I believe the IS350 F-Sport would still be pulling 13.4 - 13.5 seconds@101 mph, if Lexus stuck with the old 6 speed automatic rather than 13.9 seconds@ 99 mph like Road and track got.
I would not put too much stock on BMW's power figures since BMW has been underrating the turbo engines by a good 30 - 40 HP. The 328 is still marginally slower than the IS350 F-Sport. The best I have seen for 328i is 14.2 seconds, which is a few tick slower than the best IS350 F Sport got.
I would not put too much stock on BMW's power figures since BMW has been underrating the turbo engines by a good 30 - 40 HP. The 328 is still marginally slower than the IS350 F-Sport. The best I have seen for 328i is 14.2 seconds, which is a few tick slower than the best IS350 F Sport got.
Slust, Motor Trend (May 4, 2012), has a 2013 Mustang V6 premium hitting sixty in 5.3 and the quarter in 13.9, which makes it faster than the 350 (granted, marginally, so let's call it even. Car and Driver has the 2011 Stang V6 at 5.4 to 60, and 14 flat for the quarter). Pay $389 for an SCT ECU programmer from American Muscle, upload three or more programmed tunes into the Ford, and the horse race is over. The pony car will pull .95g's on the skidpad and stop from 60 in 110 feet. Neither stat can be equalled by our 350's. A stripped V6 is $22K. The one tested by MT (loaded) was just under $31K (retail). Unless you live in Boston or some other snowbelt city with badly pockmarked roads, ride quality b/t the cars is comparable--this with the Mustang's antiquated rear suspension.
As for 4-bangers, I almost bought a '14 328i with the M suspension. As with you, horrible steering and ridiculous pricing killed it for me. Mileage was impressive, and it was as fast as the IS 350 while giving up 66HP to the Lexus (what does that tell you about our under achieving V6's?). YMMV, but I didn't think it nearly as smooth as our V6 or the great Bimmer inline sixes of the past. If you really like 4-cylinder motors, would you be willing to pay $50K for a Jag XF with a 2 liter 4? It's a stretch to pay $50K or more for a car and then wind up with only 4 cylinders. You want great mileage from a V6? Look at Honda's 2013 Accord V6 that gets 34 mpg highway and is nearly as fast as our 350's.
I agree that Lexus needs to do something to punch up the 250, but I don't know if Toyota can field a polished 4-banger and still be "Lexus-smooth."
As for 4-bangers, I almost bought a '14 328i with the M suspension. As with you, horrible steering and ridiculous pricing killed it for me. Mileage was impressive, and it was as fast as the IS 350 while giving up 66HP to the Lexus (what does that tell you about our under achieving V6's?). YMMV, but I didn't think it nearly as smooth as our V6 or the great Bimmer inline sixes of the past. If you really like 4-cylinder motors, would you be willing to pay $50K for a Jag XF with a 2 liter 4? It's a stretch to pay $50K or more for a car and then wind up with only 4 cylinders. You want great mileage from a V6? Look at Honda's 2013 Accord V6 that gets 34 mpg highway and is nearly as fast as our 350's.
I agree that Lexus needs to do something to punch up the 250, but I don't know if Toyota can field a polished 4-banger and still be "Lexus-smooth."
Last edited by 05RollaXRS; 12-19-13 at 11:25 PM.
12-20-13, 05:02 PM
#34
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I think it is important to note that the IS cars are naturally aspirated. This was something that actually drew me to the IS350 over the BMW335 or Audi S4 (besides saving some dough). Its definitely an achievement to get the level of performance with the smoothness at this price point. I feel much better about reliability.
I just think its much harder to do with a 4 cylinder when you don't "blow". Lexus just won't turbo charge. There is a marketing dilemma that has a bit of a snow-ball effect:
- If they turbo charged the IS250, it would be over 300HP, and will outperform the IS350
- Then they would have to turbo/super-charge the IS350, which would probably outpeform the ISF
- And so on.
- With all these HP/torque increases, the cost of the cars would go up since better brakes and other components would be needed.
- The reliability would go down and Lexus would suddenly be competing without the price advantage and without the reliability advantage.
You buy Lexus because you want a great balance, not the fastest car. Its not as simple as just adding a blower.
I just think its much harder to do with a 4 cylinder when you don't "blow". Lexus just won't turbo charge. There is a marketing dilemma that has a bit of a snow-ball effect:
- If they turbo charged the IS250, it would be over 300HP, and will outperform the IS350
- Then they would have to turbo/super-charge the IS350, which would probably outpeform the ISF
- And so on.
- With all these HP/torque increases, the cost of the cars would go up since better brakes and other components would be needed.
- The reliability would go down and Lexus would suddenly be competing without the price advantage and without the reliability advantage.
You buy Lexus because you want a great balance, not the fastest car. Its not as simple as just adding a blower.
12-20-13, 06:30 PM
#35
I think it is important to note that the IS cars are naturally aspirated. This was something that actually drew me to the IS350 over the BMW335 or Audi S4 (besides saving some dough). Its definitely an achievement to get the level of performance with the smoothness at this price point. I feel much better about reliability.
I just think its much harder to do with a 4 cylinder when you don't "blow". Lexus just won't turbo charge. There is a marketing dilemma that has a bit of a snow-ball effect:
- If they turbo charged the IS250, it would be over 300HP, and will outperform the IS350
- Then they would have to turbo/super-charge the IS350, which would probably outpeform the ISF
- And so on.- With all these HP/torque increases, the cost of the cars would go up since better brakes and other components would be needed.
- The reliability would go down and Lexus would suddenly be competing without the price advantage and without the reliability advantage.
You buy Lexus because you want a great balance, not the fastest car. Its not as simple as just adding a blower.
I just think its much harder to do with a 4 cylinder when you don't "blow". Lexus just won't turbo charge. There is a marketing dilemma that has a bit of a snow-ball effect:
- If they turbo charged the IS250, it would be over 300HP, and will outperform the IS350
- Then they would have to turbo/super-charge the IS350, which would probably outpeform the ISF
- And so on.- With all these HP/torque increases, the cost of the cars would go up since better brakes and other components would be needed.
- The reliability would go down and Lexus would suddenly be competing without the price advantage and without the reliability advantage.
You buy Lexus because you want a great balance, not the fastest car. Its not as simple as just adding a blower.
12-20-13, 07:04 PM
#36
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They won't turbo the 2.5L it'll be gone soon in favor of a 2.0t base engine with roughly 230-250hp. The question is will it happen to 2015 or 2016 models. Either way it corrolates with the 2.5 and 3.5 V6's being a decade old and just in time for several twin turbo mills to join the lexus line including a twin turbo V6 that could replace the IS350 with 320-340hp and possibly a heated F version since M3/4 and ATS-V will be turbo 6. A twin turbo V8 will mostly debut on the next gen LS possibly as a 2016 model. Like it or not a FI future is coming within 3 years, the first of which will be the NX200t in 2014. From what I've gotten from the Lexus Product Council is that these twin turbo mills will be some of the most powerful and fuel efficient vs competitors. Toyota has done turbos before, so I'm not worried as much about reliability, they're sure to be doing their homework
12-21-13, 12:15 AM
#38
This isn't the only video either. There are a ton of vids south of 5.6s. I saw one review of the 2014 model stating 5.2 so it really depends who is test driving these cars, the weather and if they are going out their way to increase their 0-60 time (e.g. by turning traction control off).
Topic on 2IS 0-60 times
Like McBrain was essentially saying, if people get past who's car out bench presses who's than these 2.5/3.5 are really good engines despite their age. There is a lot of potential when you get used to how they work.
I took my co-worker to lunch today in the 2014 IS250 loaner car that Lexus gave me while I wait for mine to come in. I didn't say anything nor did I ask for his thoughts. He drives a 2008 330HP G37 and like me, he test drove BMW and Audi cars as well - though he did not test drive a Lexus. First thing he said was how much likes the interior (especially the dash layout) ...this is a base model IS250 with plastic wrapping the mats and more plastic below the mats. First thing I said was that the car has multiple modes to drive in so I showed Normal mode first and punched it to redline since I was in pole position on the left turn. Next light I didn't have pole so I had to stagger back, threw it into Sport mode and zig zagged into the lead and showed him how it holds a lower gear in case you want that power again. From about 50ish mph - punched it uphill on the on-ramp to freeway to 90ish mph.
I said nothing as I don't want to bait a response. His response was, "This thing car can move and it feels like the engine has more to give." This is coming from a guy who owns a car that is faster than our 350s and also drives fast. And since this isn't my car there is no reason for him to feel like he has to be nice. I told him the car is actually slow and only has 206 HP. He said, "It feels like it has plenty of juice to me. I can't wait to see what your 350 can do and I'm really excited to see what Sport+ feels like." Now it does help I had a 2IS so I know the engine fairly well and know instinctively where to tap into its power during its power curve. I don't just slam on the pedal, I work the pedal on how I feel the car responds as RPMs rise.
A track star it is not... so sure the 250 will look like a dud if all you go by is 0-60 times, but the engine has a lot to give and definitely has real world power when you need it. The biggest problem with the 250 is you really got to force it to squeeze that power out. Almost like American muscle in that regard but at least with the 250 its still Lexus smooth and you don't need to shift it like mad. The 250 will feel lighter (even though its not) and more nimble than comparable American muscle. The 250 is still a very fun car to drive but some e-zine reporter only getting the car for a few hours is not going to see that. Which is why I think its needs an engine upgrade because someone test driving the car might not figure that out right away and might dismiss it too quickly. Besides it needs an overall boost so you get that power with less effort.
The 2014 IS250 may be a loaner car and the car I'm getting is better but I honestly can't wait to jump into that 250 each and every day. It's a very fun car. Perhaps Edmunds.com and Consumer Reports are paid off or perhaps they just have really crappy drivers doing their reviews. My coworker was impressed and flat out said, "I'm really excited, I can't wait till you get your car especially if it's going to be better than this one." I didn't even have to ask him his thoughts, he said them freely. So if someone is thinking about getting a IS250 and is getting depressed by those reviews, don't. Drive it yourself and push it. It may need a little extra work since it has less HP than the competition ...but it will reward you and you will know you can rely on it.
Last edited by Slust; 12-21-13 at 12:32 AM.
12-21-13, 02:10 PM
#39
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Lexus IS350 0-60 in 4.6 seconds - YouTube
This isn't the only video either. There are a ton of vids south of 5.6s. I saw one review of the 2014 model stating 5.2 so it really depends who is test driving these cars, the weather and if they are going out their way to increase their 0-60 time (e.g. by turning traction control off).
Topic on 2IS 0-60 times
Like McBrain was essentially saying, if people get past who's car out bench presses who's than these 2.5/3.5 are really good engines despite their age. There is a lot of potential when you get used to how they work.
I took my co-worker to lunch today in the 2014 IS250 loaner car that Lexus gave me while I wait for mine to come in. I didn't say anything nor did I ask for his thoughts. He drives a 2008 330HP G37 and like me, he test drove BMW and Audi cars as well - though he did not test drive a Lexus. First thing he said was how much likes the interior (especially the dash layout) ...this is a base model IS250 with plastic wrapping the mats and more plastic below the mats. First thing I said was that the car has multiple modes to drive in so I showed Normal mode first and punched it to redline since I was in pole position on the left turn. Next light I didn't have pole so I had to stagger back, threw it into Sport mode and zig zagged into the lead and showed him how it holds a lower gear in case you want that power again. From about 50ish mph - punched it uphill on the on-ramp to freeway to 90ish mph.
I said nothing as I don't want to bait a response. His response was, "This thing car can move and it feels like the engine has more to give." This is coming from a guy who owns a car that is faster than our 350s and also drives fast. And since this isn't my car there is no reason for him to feel like he has to be nice. I told him the car is actually slow and only has 206 HP. He said, "It feels like it has plenty of juice to me. I can't wait to see what your 350 can do and I'm really excited to see what Sport+ feels like." Now it does help I had a 2IS so I know the engine fairly well and know instinctively where to tap into its power during its power curve. I don't just slam on the pedal, I work the pedal on how I feel the car responds as RPMs rise.
A track star it is not... so sure the 250 will look like a dud if all you go by is 0-60 times, but the engine has a lot to give and definitely has real world power when you need it. The biggest problem with the 250 is you really got to force it to squeeze that power out. Almost like American muscle in that regard but at least with the 250 its still Lexus smooth and you don't need to shift it like mad. The 250 will feel lighter (even though its not) and more nimble than comparable American muscle. The 250 is still a very fun car to drive but some e-zine reporter only getting the car for a few hours is not going to see that. Which is why I think its needs an engine upgrade because someone test driving the car might not figure that out right away and might dismiss it too quickly. Besides it needs an overall boost so you get that power with less effort.
The 2014 IS250 may be a loaner car and the car I'm getting is better but I honestly can't wait to jump into that 250 each and every day. It's a very fun car. Perhaps Edmunds.com and Consumer Reports are paid off or perhaps they just have really crappy drivers doing their reviews. My coworker was impressed and flat out said, "I'm really excited, I can't wait till you get your car especially if it's going to be better than this one." I didn't even have to ask him his thoughts, he said them freely. So if someone is thinking about getting a IS250 and is getting depressed by those reviews, don't. Drive it yourself and push it. It may need a little extra work since it has less HP than the competition ...but it will reward you and you will know you can rely on it.
This isn't the only video either. There are a ton of vids south of 5.6s. I saw one review of the 2014 model stating 5.2 so it really depends who is test driving these cars, the weather and if they are going out their way to increase their 0-60 time (e.g. by turning traction control off).
Topic on 2IS 0-60 times
Like McBrain was essentially saying, if people get past who's car out bench presses who's than these 2.5/3.5 are really good engines despite their age. There is a lot of potential when you get used to how they work.
I took my co-worker to lunch today in the 2014 IS250 loaner car that Lexus gave me while I wait for mine to come in. I didn't say anything nor did I ask for his thoughts. He drives a 2008 330HP G37 and like me, he test drove BMW and Audi cars as well - though he did not test drive a Lexus. First thing he said was how much likes the interior (especially the dash layout) ...this is a base model IS250 with plastic wrapping the mats and more plastic below the mats. First thing I said was that the car has multiple modes to drive in so I showed Normal mode first and punched it to redline since I was in pole position on the left turn. Next light I didn't have pole so I had to stagger back, threw it into Sport mode and zig zagged into the lead and showed him how it holds a lower gear in case you want that power again. From about 50ish mph - punched it uphill on the on-ramp to freeway to 90ish mph.
I said nothing as I don't want to bait a response. His response was, "This thing car can move and it feels like the engine has more to give." This is coming from a guy who owns a car that is faster than our 350s and also drives fast. And since this isn't my car there is no reason for him to feel like he has to be nice. I told him the car is actually slow and only has 206 HP. He said, "It feels like it has plenty of juice to me. I can't wait to see what your 350 can do and I'm really excited to see what Sport+ feels like." Now it does help I had a 2IS so I know the engine fairly well and know instinctively where to tap into its power during its power curve. I don't just slam on the pedal, I work the pedal on how I feel the car responds as RPMs rise.
A track star it is not... so sure the 250 will look like a dud if all you go by is 0-60 times, but the engine has a lot to give and definitely has real world power when you need it. The biggest problem with the 250 is you really got to force it to squeeze that power out. Almost like American muscle in that regard but at least with the 250 its still Lexus smooth and you don't need to shift it like mad. The 250 will feel lighter (even though its not) and more nimble than comparable American muscle. The 250 is still a very fun car to drive but some e-zine reporter only getting the car for a few hours is not going to see that. Which is why I think its needs an engine upgrade because someone test driving the car might not figure that out right away and might dismiss it too quickly. Besides it needs an overall boost so you get that power with less effort.
The 2014 IS250 may be a loaner car and the car I'm getting is better but I honestly can't wait to jump into that 250 each and every day. It's a very fun car. Perhaps Edmunds.com and Consumer Reports are paid off or perhaps they just have really crappy drivers doing their reviews. My coworker was impressed and flat out said, "I'm really excited, I can't wait till you get your car especially if it's going to be better than this one." I didn't even have to ask him his thoughts, he said them freely. So if someone is thinking about getting a IS250 and is getting depressed by those reviews, don't. Drive it yourself and push it. It may need a little extra work since it has less HP than the competition ...but it will reward you and you will know you can rely on it.
OTOH, look at BMW motors. The reason Bimmers were a blast to drive (before they lost their steering and suspension mojo) is a fat and flat torque curve. The 180HP entry level 320i motor pumps out 184ft-lbs at 1250 rpm (and kicks the 250's butt to 60 and in the quarter).The 328i puts out 255ft-lbs at 1250 rpm. The mighty 335i generates 300ft-lbs at 1200 RPM. So Lexus, give me HP and give me TQ, so I don't have to make excuses for an otherwise wonderful car like the IS 250. And Toyota, if all you can gin up is potential, please give us an aftermarket that can make these cars go faster and exploit that potential.
Now, contrition. In the week I was without my IS 350 while its radio was being replaced, my dealer gave me a 2012 IS250 F Sport. I was surprised by how much I liked the car. I racked up a fair number of freeway miles, and as a cruiser it wasn't bad. I was very happy to get my '14 350 back, but I'd choose the 2IS 250 over a Fusion, Altima, or Accord any day.
Last edited by UncleSpud; 12-21-13 at 02:14 PM.
12-22-13, 03:02 AM
#40
A 3IS 3.5 hitting 60 in 4.6 seconds? This without divine intervention? You have to wonder what kind of earth scorching, tire melting, gravity defying launch yielded these numbers. Let me again register my chronic dyspepsia about the Toyota sixes (which I'll follow with an act of contrition).
Wanna have fun with your 250? Good luck with a torque peak of only 185ft-lbs at 4800 rpm. To me, winding the bejeezus out of a motor to wake it up gets old fast. Take for example, the Honda S2000 with its 240HP four: 162ft-lbs at 6500rpm. You had to drive that car like you hated it to get it rolling.
OTOH, look at BMW motors. The reason Bimmers were a blast to drive (before they lost their steering and suspension mojo) is a fat and flat torque curve. The 180HP entry level 320i motor pumps out 184ft-lbs at 1250 rpm (and kicks the 250's butt to 60 and in the quarter).The 328i puts out 255ft-lbs at 1250 rpm. The mighty 335i generates 300ft-lbs at 1200 RPM. So Lexus, give me HP and give me TQ, so I don't have to make excuses for an otherwise wonderful car like the IS 250. And Toyota, if all you can gin up is potential, please give us an aftermarket that can make these cars go faster and exploit that potential.
Now, contrition. In the week I was without my IS 350 while its radio was being replaced, my dealer gave me a 2012 IS250 F Sport. I was surprised by how much I liked the car. I racked up a fair number of freeway miles, and as a cruiser it wasn't bad. I was very happy to get my '14 350 back, but I'd choose the 2IS 250 over a Fusion, Altima, or Accord any day.
OTOH, look at BMW motors. The reason Bimmers were a blast to drive (before they lost their steering and suspension mojo) is a fat and flat torque curve. The 180HP entry level 320i motor pumps out 184ft-lbs at 1250 rpm (and kicks the 250's butt to 60 and in the quarter).The 328i puts out 255ft-lbs at 1250 rpm. The mighty 335i generates 300ft-lbs at 1200 RPM. So Lexus, give me HP and give me TQ, so I don't have to make excuses for an otherwise wonderful car like the IS 250. And Toyota, if all you can gin up is potential, please give us an aftermarket that can make these cars go faster and exploit that potential.
Now, contrition. In the week I was without my IS 350 while its radio was being replaced, my dealer gave me a 2012 IS250 F Sport. I was surprised by how much I liked the car. I racked up a fair number of freeway miles, and as a cruiser it wasn't bad. I was very happy to get my '14 350 back, but I'd choose the 2IS 250 over a Fusion, Altima, or Accord any day.
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