alexlude

What do you guys think of the pre-paid maintenance plan - 5k/10k are free (15k/20k/25k/30k) for $1k ("regular" price is $1865).

I have 3 days to decide if i'd like to add it in (have to redo lease contract) but wanted to ask around since this is my first 36 mo / 12k lease (36k miles total).

I negotiated price of $1k for this, but wanted to ask some lease specialists on this site to see what the cost of maintenance is for a 36 mo lease IS and what the lease

Any info / advice appreciated.

semoquer

If you always get your car serviced in a dealership it is worth it. Although I would CALL multiple Lexus dealers and ask their price for the mentioned services.

Personally, I do my own service. An oil change for me is about 30 bucks synthetic. Probably a tad more using Toyota oil. The second most common service is lubing drive shafts. I don't even know if this can be done on the 3IS, but you can just buy a grease gun and do it in 5 minutes.

I'm not sure how Lexus justifies 1865... Guess that's why their nicknamed "stealerships".

semoquer

On another note.. If it is a lease, then why do you even care? Why not take it to jiffylube for a typical 60 dollar oil change? you can even bring your own oil if you're afraid of voiding the warranty or whatever..

alexlude

Well the reason I ask if LFS looks at the maintenance plan as part of the lease contract and if there is no service shown that they can say you're not adhering to keeping the car maintained...

semoquer

The contract says that you have to have it serviced at lexus? you mean you can't go to a mom and pops garage and just save the receipts?

I'm sorry if I sound ignorant, but I've never leased a car before..

alexlude

it doesn't say that per se, but I wanted to make sure I didn't miss anything...

semoquer

I just looked at the Lexus maintenance schedule for the 3IS. at about $1900 for the 15k service,I think it's a total ripoff.. I have an Acura TL right now and I always do my own work. But I know that the dealer charges 120 for synthetic oil changes. They inspect the car for free. I know they really do it because on two separate occasions, they showed me a torn bushing and a broken engine mount. They actually let me in the garage area to show me these things. I guess it's also to show that they're not trying to screw me.

What I'm trying to say is that going to Lexus for service is like throwing money away.

You need to find out if you can just keep the receipts for service done at other garages. your wallet will be much happier. Heck, a Firestone garage is probably not gonna botch an oil change. And you can just ask them to inspect rubber bushings, boots, etc. They usually do it for free, because they HOPE they will find something torn or broken. This is how they make money...

Lexus charging your for inspecting things is a JOKE.

P.S. you can also change your key fob battery for about 3 bucks.

Bass Mech

Alex don't waste your money!
I've leased many vehicles and the only maintenance my vehicles get at the dealership are warranty repairs and the first free complementary oil change.
I just bought 3 new filters and a filter wrench, a bag of drain plug gaskets.
They will never question you about maintenance and will not ask for proof!
Imagine if a sales guy or dealership brought that up and accused you of not maintaining the car while on lease, how do you think the rest of that sale would go?
If you had read my other posts a while back I said never never never buy anything in the finance office!!!!
Never prepaid maintenance, no sealants, no extended warranties and no gap coverage no paint less debt repair and no anything else I didn't mention! (I usually ask the finance guy if I give him 20 bucks to not ask me any questions and just print out the papers exactly how I agreed with the sales department')
Why go through all that trouble to get the great deal you got just to have them unwind 1900 dollars of it!
Trust me they are not saving you ANY money!

Especially on a leased car!

Would you buy prepaid maintenance or an extended warranty on a rental car? I think not!

Save yourself the money and to the maintenance yourself. Sewell Lexus sold me the filters for 3 bucks each!
When you buy oil look for it at walmart in the 5.5 quart jugs

alexlude

Fair enough. Thanks for the advice. How about the extended wear and tear during lease that takes care of curbed rims, broken windshield, bigger dings and dents not covered by normal wear and tear?

Orig = 875. Negotiated = 600.

Having an infant , I wanted to get some extra security as well. Thoughts? I picked up but have 60 days to cancel for 100% refund.

Bass Mech

nope i wouldn't do that either!

now that i am up this morning and nothing better to do on thanksgiving i have prepared a very lengthy post here for you. sorry for the length, but please read it all. this will help you and hundreds of others reading this how to save thousands on buying a new car.

don't you see whats going on here? all this garbage they sell you is dollars in their pocket! what do you think their actual cost is to fix dents when the dent guy shows up on their lot once a week? they can get a dent removed for 35 bucks because they are a dealer and always have repeat business for the dent guy.

wheel repair? they can get one touched up for 50 bucks.

of all the vehicles that come in used how many do you think they spend money doing dent repair on? likely they leave the dent for the next guy and he may not even care! if they have to fix it they can get it done cheap. they will probably throw it in on his deal free to get the sale. they get it fixed if the next buyer even bothers to complain about it.

so you negotiated the price down a little, it's all part of the game. you beat them up over the purchase price of the car and now they try to give you something else they can sell you for more than it's worth..
just take a look at the maintenance, do you really think they are going to nitpick your trade about some curb rash and a couple dings when you go to trade it in?
put yourself in their shoes. they will be looking to sell you another car! so they nitpick and you walk to another dealer! how smart would that be?

(BY THE WAY curb rash is NOT covered under that wheel repair crap! i know because my wife curbs rims and i actually almost bought that coverage on my GS. i asked specifically and they said NO!)

just make the buying experience simple and remember this simple rule! NEVER buy anything from the dealer except the CAR!
if you go against this simple rule you walk out of the dealership and the GSM will breathe a sigh of relief because rather than making nothing on a deal, they eventually won and got the money back you spent all that time negotiating.
you think you got a great deal, but all the while THEY were playing you!
trust me man, the dealerships are full of some of the slickest sales people you will ever meet.

i am in sales myself! i sell insurance, trust me when i tell you i know every trick in the book! and I've almost fallen victim to the sales tactic myself. they are damn good at what they do. they spent a lot of time around a conference table talking about the add-ons that will make them profit and they know just exactly what to sell you and how much profit they can make.

if what you sell has an actual real cost to your dealership why would you be willing negotiate it?

in other words, let's take it's oil changes for example let's say it costs the dealership 30 bucks to change your oil, knowing they get the oil in bulk and the filters for cost.

but they charge $40.00 for the oil change. if a customer were to walk in and get that done. if all you did was oil changes you would not be willing to negotiate the price because your profit is pretty clear.

in your case you need an oil change every 10,000 miles so in 3 years with average driving during a 3 year lease your going to need 3-4 oil changes. The cost to the dealership for 3 changes is about 120 bucks but they offer to sell it to you with maintenance for 1k! they are going to make about 880 bucks off you.
the rest of the visits are just inspections and really cost them nothing but 30 minutes of a techs time. what do you really think they are going to find on a car with less than 36k miles during the lease?

here is where the trick comes into play… if you inflate the perceived value of the maintenence to 1865 bucks it sounds like your really getting a deal.
they play on your heart strings because they know you LOVE the car and want to take care of it. it's your baby!

i copied this right out of your owners manual…
let's break this down to the fundamental LABOR related components..

15,000 miles
❏ Inspect and adjust all fluid levels
❏ Replace Smart Key battery
❏ Reset maintenance reminder light
❏ Rotate tires1
❏ Visually inspect brake pads, calipers and rotors
❏ Check installation of driver’s floor mat
❏ Road-test vehicle
❏ Inspect the following:
___Axle shaft boots
___Ball joints and dust covers
___Body
___Brake lines and hoses
___Engine coolant (see page 69)
___Exhaust pipes and mountings
___Front differential oil (IS 350 AWD)
___Rack-and-pinion assembly
___Rear differential oil
___Steering linkage and boots
___Wiper blades

looking at the above the 15k maintenance is basically an oil change. they can't rotate the tires on a F sport because they are staggered fitment. so this entire list is Moot. they visually inspect a bunch of stuff, so they get it on a lift and while the oil drains they look at a few areas with a flashlight trying to find something wrong so they can get more labor to fix something.
since they are not going to rotate tires, it is very unlikely they actually look at the brake pads, but if they did great! job well done!
i doubt they replace the battery in the key fob!
oh, and don't forget to reset the maintenance indicator! DUH!
total shop labor costs $30.00 (oil change)

20K maintenance
❏ Replace engine oil with 0W-20 oil; replace
oil filter
❏ Replace air conditioner filter
❏ Reset maintenance reminder light
❏ Rotate tires1
❏ Visually inspect brake pads, calipers and rotors
❏ Inspect wiper blades
❏ Check installation of driver’s floor mat
❏ Road-test vehicle

again, another oil change with filter. oh and this one says air condition filter (cabin filter) ok lets assume they replace the 6 dollar filter while the oil drains out. (big deal!)
total cost 30.00

25k maintenance
❏ Inspect and adjust all fluid levels
❏ Reset maintenance reminder light
❏ Rotate tires1
❏ Visually inspect brake pads, calipers and rotors
❏ Inspect wiper blades
❏ Check installation of driver’s floor mat
❏ Road-test vehicle

i think its fair to say we would simply skip this maintenance interval!
they would not have to even put the car up on a lift to perform this one!
total cost, 0

30k maintenance
❏ Replace engine oil with 0W-20 oil; replace oil filter
❏ Reset maintenance reminder light
❏ Rotate tires1
❏ Replace air conditioner filter
❏ Replace brake fluid
❏ Replace engine air filter
❏ Replace Smart Key battery
❏ Visually inspect brake pads, calipers
and rotors
❏ Check installation of driver’s floor mat
❏ Road-test vehicle
❏ Inspect the following:
___Axle shaft boots
___Ball joints and dust covers
___Body
___Brake lines and hoses
___Brake rotor thickness and runout
___Engine coolant (see page 69)
___Exhaust pipes and mountings
___Front differential oil (IS 350 AWD)
___Fuel lines and connections, fuel tank band
and fuel tank vapor vent system hoses
___Fuel tank cap gasket
___Rack-and-pinion assembly
___Rear differential oil
___Steering linkage and boots
___Transfer case for signs of leakage
(IS 350 AWD)
___Transmission for signs of leakage
___Wiper blades

ok this one has a LOT of things mentioned i hope the batteries in the tech's flashlight are charged up!
unfortunately as far as labor goes we have an oil and filter change, Cabin filter and the air filter. replace the brake fluid. ok we are now but 6k miles away from the end of your 36 month lease. do you think the brake fluid will make it another 6k? ok well let's say they take pride in their work and actually changed it.
actual value i would give this is about 1.5 hours labor assuming they performed every step on this list. shop rates are usually about 100 bucks per hour and you have about $50.00 worth of oil and parts. let's round up and say $200 total cost to the dealer.

so in 30,000 miles we have a whopping $260.00 worth of actual labor done but let's just give the benefit of doubt and say my numbers were off by a LOT and double that figure!
$520.00
so had you bought the maintenance agreement congrats! you talked them down from 1865 to 1,000 still leaving nearly 500 profit for the dealer!

the problem is obvious, dealers make their money on used cars and SERVICE!
because looking at your deal, they certainly aren't making it on new car sales are they?
the service department makes money from Lexus for warranty repairs as well.

i copied the following to answer your question at the beginning of this post..

You are responsible for performance
of the required maintenance indicated
in the Owner’s Manual and this guide.
Lexus will not deny a warranty claim
solely because you do not have
records to show that you maintained
your vehicle. However, any failure or
noncompliance caused by lack of
maintenance is not covered by this
warranty.
When maintenance and repairs are
paid for by you, these services may
be performed by you or by any automotive
service provider you choose.
Lexus will not deny a warranty claim
solely because you used a service
provider other than a Lexus dealership
for maintenance and repairs.
However, any failure or noncompliance
caused by improper maintenance
or repairs is not covered by
this warranty.

so heres the deal..
if wasn't obvious the service is way overpriced to begin with.. why do you think they would be willing to negotiate it with you? you already stole the car from them in the sales office (and they already expected that might happen)
if they sell you nothing, they make nothing! if they negotiate you to 1k on maintenance they make 500 bucks! (last i checked SOME money is still better than NO money)

now in the finance office they got you! your already visualizing yourself driving this new car home to show your friends. They know you can still smell the new car smell even though your not sitting in it! they know your but just a few signatures away from driving it home and your filled with anticipation!

They have your mind right where they want it.. and they tell you how much it will cost without the maintenance agreement to pay out of pocket (which is seriously inflated to begin with) and they also offer you dent repair wheel repair and they let you know it's a lease and needs to be returned in good condition besides normal wear and tear.
at this point they can scare you a little because the sale is already basically done! they know you want to take care of your baby and you want to keep it perfect the entire time you own it.
they know you would do anything at this point to keep it that way. and they have done market research to find out just how much perceived value there is and how much the average person is willing to pay for it.
then they negotiate with you to make you think your getting a great deal! (just like they did for you)
and if you agree to buy at the negotiated price, they just made 1,000 profit in the sales office for that negotiated maintenance agreement.
(keep in mind the sales side and the service side of a dealership might as well be 2 different businesses.)
so the sales department just got back that 1500 below invoice price you negotiated by selling you the maintenance and the dent / wheel repair.

and IF (and thats a big IF) you actually keep the car for the entire lease they MIGHT actually have to spend some money on service (at their cost)

you know how i know all this information? because this is not by far the first car i have bought!
and if you had agreed to buy these things they have to write up a different lease agreement because the stuff you bought will be listed on the sales invoice as "things we owe" and the net result is the sales price just went up by $1600 dollars (based on your negotiated figures)
do you think that money went to the service department? NOT!
why does this matter?
because the service department is already making plenty of money by charging people 4 times what stuff should cost to maintain the vehicle that needs little if any maintenance for the first 3 years!

This is exactly why i do my own oil changes, i learned how to reset the maintenance light, and i know a good dent repair guy and a good alloy wheel repair guy.

if I get lucky, I may never need any dent's removed and if I am careful never need a wheel fixed either.
(another 600 saved using your example)

so having said all that, I think it is painfully obvious these 2 commonly sold items do nothing but generate money for the stealership! so why then would you be lead to believe any of the other things they offer would be any different?
this entire sales process is a carefully thought out and orchestrated GAME they use to get you to give back some of the money they already agreed to discount the car in the sales process!

DO NOT FALL FOR IT!!!

heres a personal experience of mine that happened to my 2008 Lexus GS 350 AWD
at 18,000 miles the brakes started squeaking so i took it in for what i thought would be a warranty repair.
i was told that the brakes needed replacing and thats not warranty, its normal wear and tear! because the car uses the special soft pads to increase braking efficiency, ill be dammed they weren't lying, the brakes pads were totally GONE at 18k (how often have you eaten up a set of brakes before needing tires? YIKES!)
I looked in the manual and sure enough LEXUS said these brakes would last approximately 17-18k miles! and they were right!
the dealership quoted me…. are you sitting down??

$880.00 bucks to replace the front brakes!!!

I about s#!T myself!
so i took the car home and pulled the rotors, dropped them off at autozone and had them turned for 10 bucks each and picked up a set of their premium ceramic pads at 80 bucks. put everything back together (took a total of 2 hours including wait time to get the rotors turned) and for 100 bucks i had new brakes!
even at shop rates this should have cost 200 in labor and 100 in parts! (most brake shops have a lathe and can tun in house making the labor a lot less time)

the moral of the story is if your even average mechanically inclined and have some tools you can save yourself a lot of money doing your own maintenance. but even of you aren't and have to go to a shop the LAST place to take your car is the dealer because all the people who go there for anything but warranty repairs and free service are just paying 4x the cost so the dealer can make money for the dealership and make up for the money lost on the new car sales side.

i hope this helps clear up any confusion!

IS250_6Spd

Whoa Bass Mech!
i actually go in and pay $80 for an oil change but in return i get a free tank of gas. =)

Bass Mech

again perceived value! what happens if you happen to bring in the car with a 1/2 tank? so they paid 4 bucks a gallon worst case x 10 gallons, 40 bucks and there is still room for the $30.00 oil change!
consider it is entirely possible that they have their own fuel supply at the dealership. (I've seen this before) i wonder how much they pay for it and if they have to pay taxes on it being they are a dealership.
i guess if 80.00 is worth it for you thats fine. at least you know exactly what your going to pay and your only paying for the maintenance you need done. if you buy into the 1865 maintenance agreement likely you'll never get anywhere near that much in actual service.

call me cheap, but my last car was a corvette Z06 that uses 10.5 qts of synthetic oil. the oil alone costs me about 70 bucks!
it takes me about 30 minutes to get the car up a ramp, dump the oil and change the filter, then refill.
to take my car to the dealership is 40 minutes drive time, 1 hour wait (if i am lucky) and using your numbers 80 bucks.
my time is valuable to me even if i am doing nothing but relaxing.
i don't mind working on my cars, i have the tools and the time and i never need an appointment.

like i mentioned earlier i bought 3 filters from sewell. once the 2014 IS gets here i have it and the 2013 GS both use the same filter. i can change 2 cars oil into my oil catch container and actually knock out both cars at the same time. i try to line up my oil change intervals on both cars if possible.
it make more efficient use of my time that way..

alexlude

damn bass mech, that was a long lengthy novel, but good info.. LOL

I do think i will skip out on the maint. plan. Now that i know you dont have to take to lexus to get the work done. (since it is my first lease)

IS250 - lexus fills up your tank after an oil change? or are u talking about a loaner...?

semoquer

Awesome post, Bass Mech. Dealership garages pray for innocent customers who don't know any better.

I have a friend who works for Honda. He told me that they mostly do warranty work. one out of 10 jobs would be a customer actually paying for expensive services.

What baffles me is that dealerships know they charge too much. They know they are losing paying customers. Most people only come in for warranty work, and the manufacturer doesn't pay them fairly for that warranty work.

It would be smart if they just lower their prices to compete with Firestone, Jiffylube, etc.

Bass Mech

a wise man once told me "it's always better to make a little money from a lot of people verses making a lot of money on a few people."

I think dealerships see the fact that their service bays are full a lot of the time, and why would they need or want more business?
usually when i need to schedule service they are already booked up for a couple days out anyway.

i also think like you said a lot of uninformed people go there because frankly they are too lazy to look for another shop. they also think that nobody knows how to work on a Lexus better then the Lexus dealership.
it all comes to that perceived value thing and the fact many buyers of cars like a Lexus want to keep the car as pristine as they can. we all have a lot of pride owning such a fine car so its hard to take your pride and joy to "franks auto repair"
The fact is i bet you if you interviewed 100 lexus owners if given a choice to have their car services at a lexus dealership or a toyota dealership for the exact same price, few would go to toyota! forget the fact that toyota motor company actually makes the Lexus brand!

for me, it's just a car, I've leased so many over the years I don't get as attached to them as I used to.
I've owned 2 Z06 corvettes prior to this purchase. i was pretty attached to those cars but after you have had something like that its hard to get too excited anymore. so the games the sales people play don't work on me at all. i don't have the attachment to new cars they way most people do.
i also don't complain about the little quirks and problems some people tend to complain about because i know i won't be living with the car for longer than a few years anyway.