enoren

I'm starting to see swirls in my Obsidian paint under certain light. I've been following all of the rules I've found here on Club Lexus, so I must be doing something wrong. Please look at what I'm doing and let me know what you think might be causing the swirls. I want to stop before they get any worse.

First, I have been washing the car at least once a week since picking it up in July. Since the first detail from the dealer when I picked up the car, no one else is allowed to wash my car. Basically, I go to the local self-service car wash and use the power wash for soap, rinse, and sometimes spot free rinse. I don't let any brushes or sponges touch the paint.

Next, I dry the car with a synthetic chamois, polishing with a microfiber cloth as I go. Sometimes I'll wax or polish, buffing and polishing with a rotary polisher. I use the shammy in vertical or horizontal strokes, and I thought microfiber was safe to use. The microfiber cloth is the only thing I use in a circular motion, so I assume that's the source of the swirls.

Here's my process:

1. Spray organic bug cleaner on the grill, hood, and windshield (if needed)
2. Power wash and rinse (no foaming brush)
3. Air dry on the way home
4. Wipe down with damp chamois, buffing with microfiber cloth
5. Wipe down wheels
6. Wash glass with a lint free cloth
7. Apply wax or polish with applicator
8. Remove wax/polish with microfiber cloth
9. Buff with rotary tool and microfiber pad

Have I been fooled into using microfiber? I understand it's a form of plastic, but it's not supposed to harm the paint. If it is the microfiber, what else can I use to buff and polish?

Or is it something else that I'm doing wrong?

Dark9t316

It is possible that your cloths have synthetic or rough material along the edges.

I always make sure everything is 100% cotton (even the stitching along the edges), and use higher quality micro fiber cloths. When you wipe down the car or waxing the car, make sure you don't apply too much pressure.

vbx

I'm guessing it's the chamois. I use quality soft microfiber towels to dry. Using light pressure.

Chamois requires some type of pressure on the paint.

4TehNguyen

iTrader: (1)

need to use microfiber wash mitts and microfiber clothes that have the lining on the edges

having a black car doesnt help

John510

By rotary polisher do you mean electric buffer? If so there is your problem. If your going to use a buffer use the egg carton foam pad. Or I would guess the brush at the car wash place your going to is too rough.

enoren

John, I was looking forward to your reply -- I know you've owned a few black cars. It's a rotary polisher designed for waxing and polishing cars. I use it lightly, as instructed. As I mentioned above, I don't use the brush at the car wash. Any other thoughts or are you pretty sure it's the rotary tool?

I avoid mitts altogether, although I have a microfiber one if I need one this winter. I knew a black car would be a lot of work, but I'm doing all of the right things (or so I thought). Also, this is my second black IS, so I knew what I was getting into.

VBX, how do you explain the fact that the swirls are circular and the chamois is used in straight lines? But yes, I do use it lightly. I use everything lightly... just enough to dry.

At this point, it sounds like it's 1) microfiber cloths, 2) rotary polisher, or 3) a mystery option that I haven't figured out yet. Other thoughts?

PhoenixOne

I think the problem is that you are air drying your car while you are driving home. My theory is that while wet, dirt particles are getting caught by your still wet car and then dries on the paint. When you get home, you wipe it down with the damp chamois, which in turn, you are rubbing those very fine dirt particles that dried onto your car into your paint. Even if you do everything you are supposed to, just merely driving down a highway with trucks and whatnot and dust particles blowing while you're doing 55-70 mph will give you fine scratches in your paint job. The darker the color, the more profound fine scratches will look.

Edit: I've own black cars for at least 20 years. I've finally moved to white cars because I am borderline compulsive and I would detail my cars every 2 weeks because I couldn't stand seeing the fine swirl marks.

John510

The problem with black is with age there will always be some sort of swirl in the paint. All cars get them. You just see them more in the black. It comes from the wash mit and wiping it down with the towels also. Just by touching it(even lightly) will make marks in a perfect black paint job. What i do on my camaro is get a foam pad on a da with swirl remover/compound. You can do that every once in a while to remove the swirls.

I found this video on how to remove them:

PhoenixOne

Yup. That's what I did every 2-3 weeks (borderline compulsive...hehe). Used polishing or rubbing compound with an orbital buffer using a foam pad (same model and method the guy is using in the above video). I knew what I was doing so I didn't cause any damage using the orbital buffer. Black, Midnight blue are my favorite colors, but until I get my semi compulsiveness in check, i'm taking a vacation from dark colored cars for a while.

jennypenny

i have black obsidian on my CT, i have swirl marks on my car, but very little after 2 years of ownership and weekly self-washes.

i use:
- mitts to wash (turtle wax shampoo)
- chamois to dry
- polish (turtle wax ICE) with sponge applicator
- microfibre towels for polishing and buffing
- soft-99 rain repel (to keep my car cleaner for longer), sponge applicator and microfiber towels

i think if i washed my car with the 2 bucket method, there would be lesser swirls.

corradoMR2

I agree with this. Also, power washing the car clean may still leave behind a very fine film of dirt particles unnoticeable to the naked eye. Between this and the ride home accumulating additional fine dirt particles are the two root causes.

Bass Mech

if your not using a dual action rotary buffer thats your first mistake!

2 never use soap at the car wash, not only is it a waste of money the only reason they offer the stuff is so you'll put more quarters into the wash bay buy more time which makes them money. also the soap they use will cause the wax to get stripped off the car.
the BEST way to avoid micro scratches (this is what your referring to) is take your own bucket and car wash soap. fill the bucket with water 1/2 full and add a quality car wash soap. use the high pressure spray wand on rinse to remove the heavy grime putting in only enough quarters to spray the entire car, then wash the car with your wash mitt and soap solution rinsing your mitt regularly. then high pressure rinse with the wand again. the chamois needs to be kept wet and clean, i sometimes lay the chamois on the hood and without pulling the trigger on the wand you'll get a light spray that will easily blast dirt out of your chamois, flip it and spray the other side.
then rinse the car off clean.
now you have a safe drying system to remove the water.
remember wax hides the micro scratches, so if your seeing scratches in the paint you've washed the wax off because you used the soap at the car wash.

here is a better idea. spend 400 bucks and buy a gas powered pressure washer. i wash my cars in the driveway. go to http://www.detailedimage.com and buy yourself the grate that fits in the bottom of your rinse bucket, you scrape your wash mitt across it and all the dirt particles fall to the bottom of the bucket keeping the dirt off your wash mitt.
use a different old mitt to clean wheels and wheel wells keeping brake dust and particles off the mitt you wash the car with. also use a different bucket for wheel mitt.
if your really **** some people use a leaf blower to dry the car, this works great and you never touch the paint with anything but a wash mitt. but if you must use a chamois toss it across the surface and drag it off the car. never apply any pressure on the chamois because doing so will scratch the paint verses dragging the chamois from 1 end across the paint will allow it to glide and only pick up water.

bottom line is you should NEVER be rubbing or wiping the car with anything but a wet and soapy wash mitt and only after blasting the surface dirt off the car throughly.

ive owned black cars for over 12 years now and i have no problems whatsoever keeping them looking good. swirl marks and micro scratches are super easy to keep off your paint if you follow these simple rules and using the right type of polisher it's easy to remove them if you have any.
i can polish and wax my car in less than 45 minutes with my porter cable DA variable speed buffer.
another thing to keep in mind is almost everyone ive seen wax a car uses WAY too much wax or polish. all you need is a thin swirl of liquid wax on the first application to your pad and a few drops after that each time the pad runs out.
all you want is a thin almost non existent film or haze on the paint as you go. any more than that and youll be digging white paste out of every crevice and body line as well as inside the emblems. remember everything you put on, has to be taken off and if your using more than about 2-3 table spoons of wax to wax the entire car, your using way too much!
when i am done applying i just throw a clean microfiber towel over the buffer pad and remove the dry wax off the car. I can remove it from the entire car with 1 towel that measures 8" x8" square. the towel flaps around under the buffer but stays between the pad and the paint quite nicely and saves me a lot of elbow grease.

i found some old pictures of my 2007 IS take a look for yourself! you can see the neighbors house across the street in the reflection of the paint and these pictures are 4 years old taken with an old iPhone.

magne

Let me see if I understand you correctly.

You avoid using mitts, sponges and anything that actually touches the paint?
You just use degreaser and powerwash the car before polishing it with an electrical machine?

If I have understood you correctly, here is why you get all the swirls:
As mentioned by someone else, if you do not use mittens or touch the car during wshing at all, a thin layer\film of dirt will be stuck to the paint. For washing you have to first powerwash the car with a good degreaser, then you have to use a bucket with a good shampoo and microfiber mitten.
Air dyring should not make a big difference, but if you have a long drive between the washing and the drying with a towel, new dirt will be stuck to the paint, and using microfiber when drying will then make these particals apply new swirls while drying them off.

If you have not touched the car at all while washing and apply a polsihing machine to the thin layer of dirt you haven't been able to remove, you virtually put your paint through hell, and will get so much swirls you'll have nightmares about it. It would pretty much be like applying a sanding tool to the paint.

As a detailer these are the best answers I can give you.

enoren

Thanks everyone for the help. I'll put all the advice to good use.

enoren

I plan on taking everyone's advice but, given more thought, I can't reconcile these two comments. How can the power wash soap strip the wax off the car while also leaving dirt particles on the surface?