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Well the IS300h is no slouch!

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Old 07-11-13, 08:49 AM   #1
rayaans
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Default Well the IS300h is no slouch!

I think everyone seems to be underestimating how powerful the IS300h actually is. 2 videos of proof below. IS300h vs Mercedes C250 CDI. Looks like the merc is marginally better off the line but the IS300h wins by a margin in the end.

One thing i dont understand is whether Lexus have underestimated the IS300h 0-62 times or whether mercedes have over exaggerated them.

Specs
Merc - 204 bhp ------ Lexus - 220bhp
500NM torque ------ No official figures but around 350NM torque
7.1s to 62mph ------- 8.3s to 62mph
1615kg min. curb weight ------- 1620kg min. curb weight

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Old 07-11-13, 10:17 AM   #2
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I'll give one reason.

Some markets e.g Singapore now charge a road tax based on the total stated system hp of hybrid and electric cars ie, the more powerful the manufacturer stated system hp, the more road tax it attracts.

Previously, the road tax was based on engine size for internal combustion ie petrol/diesel engines. The new taxing structure is to prevent hybrid car manufacturers from exploiting a loophole and putting powerful hybrid cars on the road with hp that is out of proportion to the road tax accruing to its relatively small displacement petrol engine.

So it is in Toyota's interest to understate the hp of its hybrids....
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Old 07-11-13, 11:05 AM   #3
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Quote:
Originally Posted by rayaans View Post
No official figures but around 350NM torque
lexus.no was recently updated:
Name:  torque.png
Views: 1296
Size:  2.5 KB
translated:
Max torque (Nm): about 4-500 total (221 @ 4200-5400 petrol engine alone)

So I guess they haven't mesured it either
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Old 07-11-13, 11:16 AM   #4
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I think the folks on the track were surprised the IS hybrid won. Nice win for Lexus!
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Old 07-11-13, 01:11 PM   #5
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Quote:
Originally Posted by rayaans View Post

One thing i dont understand is whether Lexus have underestimated the IS300h 0-62 times or whether mercedes have over exaggerated them.
Neither. You are looking at the major weakness of diesel engines. They may have massive torque off the line, but they run out of breath very quickly at high RPMs. For sustained acceleration runs, gas engines will always do better. Diesels just don't make for good drag racers.
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Old 07-11-13, 03:16 PM   #6
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Im not surprised at all, this is all clear for everyone that has driven the IS 300h. I way faster than many diesels and certainly IS 250.

The "problem" with hybrids are always the first second from when you hit the accelerator . It takes some time for all systems to give maximum power, but after that ......This does actually make the car feel very slow in some strange way, but when you look at the speed it tells a different story.
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Old 07-11-13, 03:17 PM   #7
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Quote:
Originally Posted by rayaans View Post
I think everyone seems to be underestimating how powerful the IS300h actually is. 2 videos of proof below. IS300h vs Mercedes C250 CDI. Looks like the merc is marginally better off the line but the IS300h wins by a margin in the end.

One thing i dont understand is whether Lexus have underestimated the IS300h 0-62 times or whether mercedes have over exaggerated them.

Specs
Merc - 204 bhp ------ Lexus - 220bhp
500NM torque ------ No official figures but around 350NM torque
7.1s to 62mph ------- 8.3s to 62mph
1615kg min. curb weight ------- 1620kg min. curb weight

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ocnOzqN5YZ4
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NX4SQ-S-1XY

hey, i thought IS300h was slooow... what now? As several people mentioned, in-gear acceleration of IS300h is formidable, and we can see it here.
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Old 07-11-13, 04:35 PM   #8
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I think its the combination of CVT and amazing lexus sound proofing. Even in the RX, i sometimes think im going really slow on the motorway but im actually at 100mph. Its slightly weird but it goes to show how quiet and refined Lexus are. I had the horror of sitting in a colleagues BMW X5 30d M Sport and i was shocked at the bad ride and overall cabin noise. Was so glad to get back in the RX .

I used to prefer AMG's and BMW M vehicles. They were LOUD! but now im getting more into the quiet revolution.
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Old 07-12-13, 04:00 AM   #9
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Mr Bond View Post
...
The "problem" with hybrids are always the first second from when you hit the accelerator . It takes some time for all systems to give maximum power ...
After thorough examination of the clips, I'm pretty sure the driver didn't know the "power start procedure" for any Power Split Device based Toyota / Lexus (and I believe Ford too) hybrids.

Procedure is simple: press both pedals to the metal, and after ICE revs up to about 3k RPM and is producing a lot of ready for use electrical energy, you release the break pedal.
I doing it in my 9yrs Prius from time to time. It's completely safe, because of a simple mechanical construction of Toyota hybrids. No gearbox, no clutch just simple planetary gear between motors / engine and wheels. The Power of H! ;-)
(WARNING: do not try it on a standard automatic or automated gearboxes!)

With this procedure, IS300h would easily wins off the line with any ~200hp diesels.


thanks for clips,
BR/
Dominik

PS: I will introduce myself on right thread, as I'm new to the forum

Last edited by dblacha; 07-12-13 at 04:05 AM..
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Old 07-12-13, 05:07 AM   #10
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Quote:
Originally Posted by dblacha View Post
After thorough examination of the clips, I'm pretty sure the driver didn't know the "power start procedure" for any Power Split Device based Toyota / Lexus (and I believe Ford too) hybrids.

Procedure is simple: press both pedals to the metal, and after ICE revs up to about 3k RPM and is producing a lot of ready for use electrical energy, you release the break pedal.
I doing it in my 9yrs Prius from time to time. It's completely safe, because of a simple mechanical construction of Toyota hybrids. No gearbox, no clutch just simple planetary gear between motors / engine and wheels. The Power of H! ;-)
(WARNING: do not try it on a standard automatic or automated gearboxes!)

With this procedure, IS300h would easily wins off the line with any ~200hp diesels.


thanks for clips,
BR/
Dominik

PS: I will introduce myself on right thread, as I'm new to the forum
i didnt know this :-)

welcome... this was a good test btw, 250 CDI is not a slow engine.
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Old 07-12-13, 05:33 AM   #11
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Quote:
Originally Posted by spwolf View Post
i didnt know this :-)

welcome... this was a good test btw, 250 CDI is not a slow engine.
right, 250 CDI with its 500Nm is powerful. but the winner is IS300h!
(BTW: "Nm measuring" of performance isn't quite good
let's look: my 2nd generation Prius with its 110hp, has... 478Nm of total torque)

I'm waiting for my new IS300h now, I will test the "power start" as soon as I break-in after 2-3kkm :-)
I'll inform you what it's working on IS. on my Prius it's truly fantastic, no any lag on off-line, however, it's quite easy to lose a grip, and invoke an ASR :-(
in IS should it be a lot better: rear drive and ASR turn off (I hope so)

Last edited by dblacha; 07-12-13 at 06:48 AM..
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Old 07-12-13, 10:17 AM   #12
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Quote:
Originally Posted by dblacha View Post
right, 250 CDI with its 500Nm is powerful. but the winner is IS300h!
(BTW: "Nm measuring" of performance isn't quite good
let's look: my 2nd generation Prius with its 110hp, has... 478Nm of total torque)

I'm waiting for my new IS300h now, I will test the "power start" as soon as I break-in after 2-3kkm :-)
I'll inform you what it's working on IS. on my Prius it's truly fantastic, no any lag on off-line, however, it's quite easy to lose a grip, and invoke an ASR :-(
in IS should it be a lot better: rear drive and ASR turn off (I hope so)
Prius doesnt have 478Nm torque. You cant simply add them together as the torque will come through at different points in the rev range. Id estimate about 250Nm combined. Lexus havent worked out the torque because the equation is really complex.
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Old 07-12-13, 10:50 AM   #13
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Originally Posted by rayaans View Post
Prius doesnt have 478Nm torque. You cant simply add them together as the torque will come through at different points in the rev range. Id estimate about 250Nm combined. Lexus havent worked out the torque because the equation is really complex.
I'm saying about the second generation Prius (2004-2009)
it has 478Nm of the maximum tourque
and it is not simply add
one of electric motors has equal 400Nm in a short range (0-1200 as I remember)
look here on motors charts:
http://3.bp.blogspot.com/-h6U_32QA2m...YE/s1600/2.png
and add to it some of ICE torque (of course, not a maximum!)

newer Prius has 1/2 of that torque, because of additional planetary reduction gear on top of the PSD:
http://img.docstoccdn.com/thumb/orig/132483524.png (motor torque here is displayed in "ft lbf")

BTW: maximum torque of an engine or a electric motors is saying near nothing about performance of the car... you must look on torque, right, but... on the wheels! after multiplying or dividing it on all gears in a middle
this is all the truth about torque we are comparing :-)

Last edited by dblacha; 07-12-13 at 02:46 PM..
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Old 07-14-13, 02:10 PM   #14
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Originally Posted by Mr Bond View Post
Im not surprised at all, this is all clear for everyone that has driven the IS 300h. I way faster than many diesels and certainly IS 250.

The "problem" with hybrids are always the first second from when you hit the accelerator . It takes some time for all systems to give maximum power, but after that ......This does actually make the car feel very slow in some strange way, but when you look at the speed it tells a different story.
We have just tested the is300h vs is250 vs altezza side by side today and found out that the is250 is a little bit/marginal faster than the is300h, but the engine might losen up as it is still a brand new car vs a 2006 is250 with 176k miles. Therefore, the altezza is noticable faster than both of them.
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Old 07-14-13, 04:29 PM   #15
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Alantjai View Post
We have just tested the is300h vs is250 vs altezza side by side today and found out that the is250 is a little bit/marginal faster than the is300h, but the engine might losen up as it is still a brand new car vs a 2006 is250 with 176k miles. Therefore, the altezza is noticable faster than both of them.
Bear in mind the altezza weighs much less than the two IS's. The 2006 IS250 is marginally lighter as well compared to the new IS250. Was the 300h being ragged before engine break in!??!
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