A quick review on IS300h
06-10-13, 07:51 AM
#31
Its not that. Lexus buyers in the UK seriously do NOT care about the efficiency if the engine OR the running costs. The only Lexus customers who care about efficiency go for the CT200h.
Why do I say this? Simply because, the Lexus IS250 is the best seller for Lexus after the CT200h in the UK even though it has a £280 a year road tax, which is the same as a BMW 335i and does 32MPG which is pretty low.
Why do I say this? Simply because, the Lexus IS250 is the best seller for Lexus after the CT200h in the UK even though it has a £280 a year road tax, which is the same as a BMW 335i and does 32MPG which is pretty low.
CT200h got a lot of new customers to Lexus, and they want to do the same with IS300h.
I would never buy an IS250, and I would gladly get IS300h.
06-10-13, 03:58 PM
#32
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This UK buyer certainly does care about running costs - £10 annual road tax, full tax-reclaimable rental and a grand a year in fuel (plus cheaper maintenance) means I went for the 300h over the 250 and I'd guess 80% of buyers will do likewise.
06-10-13, 04:01 PM
#33
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And yes, I'm new to Lexus. Exactly as planned, no doubt!
Remember, Lexus sells eight times as many vehicles in the US as it does in the EU; it is a *long* way behind the Germans and needs a USP.
Remember, Lexus sells eight times as many vehicles in the US as it does in the EU; it is a *long* way behind the Germans and needs a USP.
06-10-13, 05:02 PM
#34
Lexus Test Driver
Only company car buyers care about the running costs. Theres many more GS250's than there are GS450h of the 4th generation. Company car buyers have to opt for the GS450h otherwise theyre getting taxed crazy amounts.
Seriously, think about it, my RX450h I did not buy because of the fuel efficiency, it barely gets anywhere near the quoted figure anyway. Says 45mpg, I only manage 30mpg. As for costs, it only saved me £500 in petrol this year compared to the quoted 23mpg of my RX300 and I do roughly 10k miles a year. Not much of a difference in my opinion. Would happily go for an RX460 if it was available.
Seriously, think about it, my RX450h I did not buy because of the fuel efficiency, it barely gets anywhere near the quoted figure anyway. Says 45mpg, I only manage 30mpg. As for costs, it only saved me £500 in petrol this year compared to the quoted 23mpg of my RX300 and I do roughly 10k miles a year. Not much of a difference in my opinion. Would happily go for an RX460 if it was available.
06-10-13, 08:49 PM
#35
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hey Ian, where are you? i was just in your lovely country (NI and Rep., all over)
06-11-13, 02:16 AM
#36
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R,
In the UK the price differential between GS450h and GS250 is £12k (c. $18k), enough to make anyone think twice! But with them now coming through as pre-reg/demo with that differential all but wiped out, we may see more on the roads here. And the GS300h will be a strong proposition.
The price differential between IS300h and IS250 is £3k, but even this can be haggled (in Germany it is only €2k, albeit in a country where diesel costs 20% less than in the UK).
Frankly, I went into the showroom keen on a 250, glanced at the figures, and after a bit of negotiation it was a no-brainier to go with the 300h. For a private buyer this would be less obvious, but still compelling.
In the UK the price differential between GS450h and GS250 is £12k (c. $18k), enough to make anyone think twice! But with them now coming through as pre-reg/demo with that differential all but wiped out, we may see more on the roads here. And the GS300h will be a strong proposition.
The price differential between IS300h and IS250 is £3k, but even this can be haggled (in Germany it is only €2k, albeit in a country where diesel costs 20% less than in the UK).
Frankly, I went into the showroom keen on a 250, glanced at the figures, and after a bit of negotiation it was a no-brainier to go with the 300h. For a private buyer this would be less obvious, but still compelling.
06-11-13, 08:29 AM
#38
Lexus Test Driver
IanP, you do know that the IS300h costs £3k more right? Either you are no good at haggling or you are unfairly comparing the prices of the vehicles. I have been in the showroom and haggled £3,5k off the IS300h. BUT, because its not too high in demand, I was able to haggle £4.3k off the IS250. Which frankly, makes it a £3.8k difference in price between the IS250 and IS300h.
When putting that into perspective, along with the fact that the IS300h will not go anywhere near its quoted 60mpg (ive driven the car, it actually got 41mpg, in sport mode and not even pushing it very hard.) and the sportier sensation of the IS250, itd be stupid to go with the IS300h unless you are doing crazy mileage where it actually makes a slight difference. Providing my wife only does 3k miles a year, itd take a good 15 years just to get that £3.8k difference in price in the first place.
The IS250 also feels sportier, drives sportier and suits the character of the IS more so than the 300h. I drove the latest IS250 just this week so I know. The IS300h is too laid back and feels underpowered in normal mode, which shouldnt really be the case.
Also about the GS250 and GS450h, the cheapest GS450h F Sport registered in June 2012 costs £37k, a GS250 F Sport of the same registration date costs £28k. Its also easier to haggle more on the GS250 as demand is less. Now I wonder, how long would it take to get £9k possibly £11k back EVEN if the official figures are used? Insurance price is higher for the GS450h as it has a bigger engine also!
When putting that into perspective, along with the fact that the IS300h will not go anywhere near its quoted 60mpg (ive driven the car, it actually got 41mpg, in sport mode and not even pushing it very hard.) and the sportier sensation of the IS250, itd be stupid to go with the IS300h unless you are doing crazy mileage where it actually makes a slight difference. Providing my wife only does 3k miles a year, itd take a good 15 years just to get that £3.8k difference in price in the first place.
The IS250 also feels sportier, drives sportier and suits the character of the IS more so than the 300h. I drove the latest IS250 just this week so I know. The IS300h is too laid back and feels underpowered in normal mode, which shouldnt really be the case.
Also about the GS250 and GS450h, the cheapest GS450h F Sport registered in June 2012 costs £37k, a GS250 F Sport of the same registration date costs £28k. Its also easier to haggle more on the GS250 as demand is less. Now I wonder, how long would it take to get £9k possibly £11k back EVEN if the official figures are used? Insurance price is higher for the GS450h as it has a bigger engine also!
06-11-13, 10:10 AM
#39
IanP, you do know that the IS300h costs £3k more right? Either you are no good at haggling or you are unfairly comparing the prices of the vehicles. I have been in the showroom and haggled £3,5k off the IS300h. BUT, because its not too high in demand, I was able to haggle £4.3k off the IS250. Which frankly, makes it a £3.8k difference in price between the IS250 and IS300h.
When putting that into perspective, along with the fact that the IS300h will not go anywhere near its quoted 60mpg (ive driven the car, it actually got 41mpg, in sport mode and not even pushing it very hard.) and the sportier sensation of the IS250, itd be stupid to go with the IS300h unless you are doing crazy mileage where it actually makes a slight difference. Providing my wife only does 3k miles a year, itd take a good 15 years just to get that £3.8k difference in price in the first place.
The IS250 also feels sportier, drives sportier and suits the character of the IS more so than the 300h. I drove the latest IS250 just this week so I know. The IS300h is too laid back and feels underpowered in normal mode, which shouldnt really be the case.
Also about the GS250 and GS450h, the cheapest GS450h F Sport registered in June 2012 costs £37k, a GS250 F Sport of the same registration date costs £28k. Its also easier to haggle more on the GS250 as demand is less. Now I wonder, how long would it take to get £9k possibly £11k back EVEN if the official figures are used? Insurance price is higher for the GS450h as it has a bigger engine also!
When putting that into perspective, along with the fact that the IS300h will not go anywhere near its quoted 60mpg (ive driven the car, it actually got 41mpg, in sport mode and not even pushing it very hard.) and the sportier sensation of the IS250, itd be stupid to go with the IS300h unless you are doing crazy mileage where it actually makes a slight difference. Providing my wife only does 3k miles a year, itd take a good 15 years just to get that £3.8k difference in price in the first place.
The IS250 also feels sportier, drives sportier and suits the character of the IS more so than the 300h. I drove the latest IS250 just this week so I know. The IS300h is too laid back and feels underpowered in normal mode, which shouldnt really be the case.
Also about the GS250 and GS450h, the cheapest GS450h F Sport registered in June 2012 costs £37k, a GS250 F Sport of the same registration date costs £28k. Its also easier to haggle more on the GS250 as demand is less. Now I wonder, how long would it take to get £9k possibly £11k back EVEN if the official figures are used? Insurance price is higher for the GS450h as it has a bigger engine also!
I would never buy it.... If I wouldnt have money for GS450h, i wouldnt get GS at all.
Here in continental Europe, I would have very hard time selling used IS250... nobody wants to buy V6 petrol anymore. So it is not just saving at the pump, or maintainance or fuel costs or cool factor, it is also resale.
06-11-13, 11:30 AM
#40
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@Rayaans
I drove the 300h in the same way as I drive my 250 and I got around 38 UK mpg. Not that much more than my 250. And the hybrid transmission is not very interested for sporty driving either. I would be so bored if I drive it as a hybrid should drive. That would makes me feel instantly 20 years older.
@Spwolf
So you think IS/GS250 is dog, try 300h. If that isn't dog than you are lying.
And about the resell value, any Lexus is hard to sell in Europe compare to other brands. Doesn't matter if it is a 250, 300h, CT, RX etc. If I care of resell value, I wouldn't have bought a Lexus at all. I would have got a Volvo or anything from VW, Audi or BMW.
I drove the 300h in the same way as I drive my 250 and I got around 38 UK mpg. Not that much more than my 250. And the hybrid transmission is not very interested for sporty driving either. I would be so bored if I drive it as a hybrid should drive. That would makes me feel instantly 20 years older.
@Spwolf
So you think IS/GS250 is dog, try 300h. If that isn't dog than you are lying.
And about the resell value, any Lexus is hard to sell in Europe compare to other brands. Doesn't matter if it is a 250, 300h, CT, RX etc. If I care of resell value, I wouldn't have bought a Lexus at all. I would have got a Volvo or anything from VW, Audi or BMW.
Last edited by UpSideDown; 06-11-13 at 11:36 AM.
06-11-13, 12:14 PM
#41
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Interesting, meanwhile on the other side of the globe (Asia), nobody wants a used Volvo, second hand BMW, MB, Audi depreciate a lot, while Japanese cars tend to get the highest resale value...
06-11-13, 12:39 PM
#42
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06-11-13, 12:54 PM
#43
Lexus Test Driver
I wonder how other continents gets so different gas mileage than US. I open a thread a while back and someone said the standards of measuring are different but somehow I think it has to do with the fact that the highest octane in US is 93 or that all the gasoline here has ethanol up to 10% but it can be found as high as 40%. Do they use ethanol in Europe. What is the constant MPG you get?
I see UK listed IS250 with 31 mixed. Here is 31 hwy and 24-25 mixed.
I see UK listed IS250 with 31 mixed. Here is 31 hwy and 24-25 mixed.
06-11-13, 02:42 PM
#44
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R.,
You're moving the goalposts a bit there. Earlier you had said UK Lexus buyers were uninterested in efficiency. At least some of them are.
If you are buying private and driving low miles, it is at least a contest (in the UK). The fuel savings on the hybrid will be limited; the £230+ difference in road tax still comes nowhere near the differential; and as you say you may even be prepared to risk paying slightly more over the ownership cycle for the "benefit" of the better driving car.
For all that, Lexus clearly isn't confident about the 250's efficacy *at all*, given it will not be available in Continental Europe or Ireland - even though diesel typically costs 20% less there (thus the advantage of an IS 300h over, say, a BMW 325d is slashed).
And as a business purchase, at 100% reclaimable rental and 12% BIK versus 85% and 30%, it's a no brainer.
Also, the 300h is better for the environment. Not that anyone seems to have cared about that since the onset of the credit crunch...
You're moving the goalposts a bit there. Earlier you had said UK Lexus buyers were uninterested in efficiency. At least some of them are.
If you are buying private and driving low miles, it is at least a contest (in the UK). The fuel savings on the hybrid will be limited; the £230+ difference in road tax still comes nowhere near the differential; and as you say you may even be prepared to risk paying slightly more over the ownership cycle for the "benefit" of the better driving car.
For all that, Lexus clearly isn't confident about the 250's efficacy *at all*, given it will not be available in Continental Europe or Ireland - even though diesel typically costs 20% less there (thus the advantage of an IS 300h over, say, a BMW 325d is slashed).
And as a business purchase, at 100% reclaimable rental and 12% BIK versus 85% and 30%, it's a no brainer.
Also, the 300h is better for the environment. Not that anyone seems to have cared about that since the onset of the credit crunch...
06-11-13, 03:00 PM
#45
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If you really care about the environment, use public transport or buy a bicycle.