oztiks

i am utterly confused - based on your philosophy one cannot judge the quality of a car without having intimate experience with it. i dont see a 2is anywhere in your 'owned' list. did you drive one, once, and make this assessment?

Ice350

iTrader: (1)

I don't know what this debate is about. Kinda nonproductive.
The IS is an entry level car and you can't expect the interior to be at the quality of a GS or LS.
But it is nice and nicer than other comparable cars.

I'm not looking for it to be ultra-luxury. i'm looking for it to be durable, fashionable and affordable....relatively speaking.

I've seen the car up close and imo it's nice. More than that it's roomier that the outgoing car. That's numero uno for me.

Ramon

I've been in a CT multiple times and driven one multiple times too. I continue to find it laughable that my opinion matters so deeply to you. Yes, I can come to certain conclusions without having actually sat in the 3IS. That won't change no matter how much it bothers you. Get over it or place me on your ignore list. Problem solved.

What's funny is that my negative opinions aren't "valid" because I don't have intimate experience with the car, but your positive ones, without having intimate experience with the car are somehow valid. Your logic needs some work.

peteharvey

Forum members have a right to voice their opinion on the car.
Steve, is it possible for you to focus voicing your own opinion "on the car", rather than continually voicing your opinions about "other people's opinions"?
Thereby denying them of the right to an opinion.
It's becoming a bad habit.

SW17LS

I never said that you have to have an "intimate" experience with a car, I do however think you should sit in and preferably at least drive a car before passing judgement on it.

I have driven numerous 2IS's over the years, on test drives and as loaners. Its a nice little car, but I wouldn't say that it was free from cost cutting lets just put it that way.

Theres the right to have an opinion, and then theres folks that think just because they have an opinion they have the right to voice it over and over again, and somehow bring every discussion back to a discussion about their opinion. I have been as guilty of this as anybody in the past, but its annoying. For instance every discussion with you about the 3IS somehow seems to devolve into a discussion about your opinion on the sales history and shortcomings of the 4GS.

We've heard the opinion 150 times. We don't need to hear it 151 times.

peteharvey

We've all heard your biased opinions 1000 times too!
There is one difference though.
We talk about the car - we do not post regarding your opinions...

SW17LS

I'm just saying that I think its unfortunate that on the premier Lexus enthusiast site Lexus gets less respect nowadays than they do in the automotive press! Someone posts an article about the Lexus winning a comparison test...and the discussion looks more like the article was posted on a BMW forum than a Lexus forum. I think thats sad. The product is finally getting accolades from the press...yet its own enthusiasts are now its harshest critic?

Take the '13 ES forums, I was guilty of being in there talking about what I considered the vehicle's shortcomings because there were things that I felt were wrong about what Lexus did with the car. I realized that was wrong of me, I needed to let the owners and fans of the car have their forum and their fun without having to constantly listen to the same complaints from me...so I stopped. This is what needs to happen in the 3IS forum too. Let people be excited about the car, and all of the 2IS owners who want to hate on it go hate on it in Car Chat or something.

Ramon

Every car has levels of cost cutting, no one is saying otherwise, you're just misinterpreting. When I see a discussion about the 3IS and feel that providing my opinion is on-topic, I'm going to post it. If you don't want to hear my opinion for the 152 time, I again, suggest you place me on ignore.

peteharvey

One should never hate a car.
If a model has a weakness, then one should highlight that weakness to Lexus.
Lexus actually wants this type of feedback to improve on their products.
If Lexus doesn't have intelligent feedback to improve on its products, it won't take too long before models like the Lexus HS was terminated!

One should be careful not to confuse hate with recommended improvements.
Talking about improvements doesn't mean hating the car; that's an incorrect assumption.

Above all, we should mind our own business, and talk about the car, and not talk about somebody else; which is plain unprofessional conduct...

SW17LS

Let the members who are excited about the 3IS have their fun. We get it...you won't be purchasing a 3IS. We've heard it plenty of times. Post on the 2IS forums.

spwolf

i owned 2IS and so what now? It is better than competition in some things, but seriously flawed in others.

Everything I see in 3IS is better than in 2IS.

.

peteharvey

I have 3 Lexus cars, including a 2006 IS250.
Normally, when I ask my wife if she wants to buy a new car, she says it's a waste of money.
However, when I showed my wife photos of the new red 3IS, she was instantly turned on by its sexy rear end, and those rhomboidal-like tail light lenses.




I'll probably end up having to buy her that metallic red 3IS, or get a silver 4.5GS for myself, and pass my old 3GS onto her.
Either way, forum members have the right to voice their opinions regarding constructive improvements to future 3.5 and 4IS's.

Life is about good and bad; we have to accept that.
We must be able to take the gravy with the dirt.
More importantly, we don't just become trapped by a problem, but we solve it for the better!
For example, Congress has the House of Representatives to initially propose the legislation, but they also have the Senate to debate and finally "filter" those legislations.
There are both sides to life.
Having exclusively one side only, without the other side is no good, and unbalanced.
If it can't withstand scrutiny, then it will never withstand the real world.

Humans are an inventive group; humans have ingenuity.
If we didn't, we'd all still be on foot walking the Greek marathons, or on horseback.
Lexus' motto is "the Persuit of Perfection".
If Lexus doesn't continue to think forwards, then in 6 or 12 months time, Lexus will be decimated by Benz and Beamer, just like the axing of the Lexus HS from the American market.

There are a number of forum members voicing improvements needed to the plastic switches on the 3IS steering wheel, and the plastics on the central console.
As much as I will buy that sexy metallic red 3IS above for my missus, these opinions on the plastics used in the 3IS interior are legitimate, intelligent, and excellent feedback to the manufacturer who is clearly in Persuit of Perfection.

Steve, notice how I give my opinion on the "car", rather than giving my opinion about another forum member's opinion - which becomes "personal", especially if it is negative...

SW17LS

Enough...I don't need to be lectured to by you or anyone else about "how life is".

Of course a balance is important, but EVERY thread in this forum gets drug down by the negative opinions of a select few members, opinions that are voiced again, and again, and again. Thats not balance.

Ramon

I'll post where I feel my post has some relevancy. If it's in the 3IS forum, than it will be in the 3IS forum. How you feel about it isn't a factor. Let me be blunt since being polite isn't working... I don't actually care what you think.

peteharvey

I think that the forum has a good balance and debate between the left and the right.
One's skin shouldn't be too thin; it should be reasonably thick.
One could say that if a member just wants to hear the good side only, and turn their eyes away from the dark side, then they should post on a "Heavenly Forum" where there are angels and saints, only the bright side, with no purgatory or hell in sight...