NjDude

I had VR6 Jetta and was captivated by the Lexus IS 2006 model. I narrowed down to 3 cars, the BMW 3 series, the infinity G35 coupe and Lexus IS250. The style and Luxury is what I went for and got myself the Lexus. I had always felt that the 2nd generation screamed to be a coupe like style with 4 doors. The 3rd generation does not grab my attention at all. I am in the market for a coupe now and the 3rd generation screams to be a sedan (for me at least).

LexFather

I remember telling the team in the moderator forum that there will huge growth here and to prepare for it with the 2IS. It was a different direction than the 1IS and clearly worked. Praise was pretty universally positive for the car, the main negatives to people no manual in the 350 and the loss of the 2JZ (no turbo).

I think the biggest thing for the 2IS was how good it looked to most anyone. You had to be a pretty big Lexus hater to not admit that it was a great looking car. The 3IS's bold face is simply not for everyone.

Agree on the engines, we went through the same thing with the 3GS. However we know an IS F is coming and we are still waiting for GS F confirmation.

Also the market in 2005 was not like 2013. There was no strong Audi, there was even no strong Kia/Hyundai. Lexus was in the middle of their decade long sales tear. Now Lexus has not just a C-class to cope with but the new CLA while FWD, is stylish like the IS and going for style fans.

Lexus is really going to have to offer some super strong advertising with the IS as this field is quite crowded compared to 2005/2006.

Evitzee

The world has changed from 2005, economically it is different, and the market has changed dramatically, too. There is a lot of competition for these kinds of cars and Lexus is no longer at the top of the heap as far as value and reliability is concerned. I still enjoy my 2006 IS350 and see no great improvement as far as the look (interior or exterior) of the 2014 IS. And most likely the material spec will have been downgraded in some respect in the name of cost and weight savings. Perhaps the 'experience' is different once behind the wheel but I'm not moved at all to even thinking about changing to a 2014 IS. I just don't see a compelling reason for anyone to trade unless they just have to have the 'latest and greatest'.

BornDriver

2IS still looks very good today. I will say that 3IS is better looking than 2IS, but not that much. It is somewhat evolutionary better.

In 2005-06, Japanese cars reached their peak. But, then they just halted and watched every other competitor passing them by. At that time, only a few manufactures used VVT, DI was advanced tech, 6AT was so good. The engine performance of 2IS350 just blew the competition away.
Now, every car has VVT, DI and 6AT are used in family cars. And, the competitors have been using FI and 8AT for a while. So, the performance of 3IS will be behind those already in the market. What kind of story can you tell your audience? And, It is premium sports sedan.
I dont think that advertising can help much without valid performence figure.

The efficiency used to be in Japanese's hand when the gas was 1 dollar some cents cheap. Gas price isn't cheap as 03-06 any more. However, the efficiency table is turned into German and others. The value of owning a Japanese premium car is evaporating nowadays.

Another issue is the cost cutting. 4GS is suffering from this also. Lack of power folding mirrors, power closing trunk, parking sensors, fog lights......Those are easily to be seen and found by potential buyers. When other competitors offer them, how would you expect the premium car buyers' reaction?

spwolf

350 is pretty fast... what cars are going to be a lot faster?

as to the cost cutting, it is more evident in competition than lexus... simply sit into 4GS and then sit in competitors and then talk about cost cutting.

SW17LS

If you have any experience with the 4GS, its not fair to say that the 4GS "suffers" from cost cutting. True, you may not have power folding mirrors, a power closing trunk, it does have a full suite of parking sensors not sure where that comes from, or fog lights on the F-Sport (I doubt thats cost cutting since the foglights are there on every other GS), but the 4GS is such a huge step forward from the 3GS its not even funny. The upgrades in interior quality alone are incredible, and when you factor in the new technology and features the car does have, plus the handling and performance that is beating BMW in reviews for the first time ever, its not a vehicle that "suffers" from anything.

I just shopped all the cars in this segment, and the GS is such a nice car for the money, it never even occured to me that it didn't have power folding mirrors or a power close trunk. If those features are more important to you than the quality, handling, and performance of the car...you should buy a Buick or Lincoln.

If you want to see a Lexus that really suffers from cost cutting, look at the ES. Really significant decontenting in the 2013 ES.

ntocamping

I went to the DC auto show over the weekend. I liked the 3IS but was not blown away by it. They had a 4GS there as well and I liked it but the styling is a little bland and certainly not better than my '08 550i. I really wanted to see the Infiinit Q50 but they did not have it there.

Threre are so many good cars on the road today that it makes one brand hard to stand head and soulders above the rest. I am excited to see the new 2014 Hyundai Genesis. Spy shots look good and if it comes equipped with 5 series features for a 3 series price I may jump into a Korean car. A buddy's friend who went to the car show commented that he liked the Optima the best of all the cars he saw. Times are a changing.

flipside909

The reason why 2nd Gen IS was a huge hit from previous 1st Gen IS was because of the drastic departure in choices and performance. There are lots of great choices from the competition today than there was back in 2005 when IS 250/350 came out to the market. The market trend is changing and those who were in that prime target market back in 05 are usually graduating into different and larger vehicles. I think the new IS will be a hit not because i've owned every single generation, it's because the car has matured with more appeal and versatility for a larger range of buyers. The rear seat space and the folding rear seats are huge for the new IS. If Lexus USA would offer IS 300h and in F SPORT trim, they would be opening the door to a new set of conquest buyers.

natnut

Your misconceptions regarding the 4GS has been addressed by SW10ES already.

Regarding FI and 8 speeds, there is no free lunch. The superior fuel efficiency of FI is arguable in real life (not talking just about EPA). The trade-off is turbo-lag, some more so than others, non-progressive throttle response and increased engine complexity : There was a study in UK showing that the more recent German engines, presumably FI have the worst reliability in the market, even worse than some econcars. Thus FI --> more complex moving parts/software---> less reliable mechanicals/electronics. Go to the BMW 5 series forums and see how much complaining there is about the turbo-lag/poor throttle response and ask yourself whether that should be the hallmark of a luxury sports sedan. And that's not even going into the well documented fuel pump failures of the turbo inline 3L BMW engine and the recall issued for the latest M5 due to its potential catastrophic engine failure of the twin turbo V8.

This German superiority in engines is largely hype, some selective media bias and taking EPA figures at face value without also considering the full picture.

FI in the Germans is a product driven not by a desire for a better driver's experience but a bitter pill forced onto them by increasingly strict emissions/fuel efficiency regulations. Everything else they've done since are measures to mitigate the purist-killing experience of FI eg 8 speed, increasingly complex engine parts/software to reduce throttlle lag( with concomitant hit on reliability) or are publicity measures to spin FI as a good thing for keen enthusiast drivers.

The sad thing is that the poorer German reliability used to be justifiably outweighed by the sublime driving experience of German sedans especially BMW. Not any more : Catch any past/present BMW E39 or E60 5 series driver now and ask them whether the current F10 5 series measures up in any way shape or form as a driver's car to the previous generation 5 series. Similarly for past 3 series drivers and the current F30 3 series.

BornDriver

Your statement is ridiculous to me since LEXUS is starting to put 8AT in 3IS and planning on turbos.

BornDriver

I agree with you that Lexus starts to get on the right tracks with 4GS.
However, I dont think that they deliver the whole package. The GS FSports which I looked at didn't have any of those 4 features I metioned earlier. That is why I said they cost-cutting on the features. Maybe your car is special-ordered? Interior quality is very good overall, some bits can still get improved tho.
Probably because the 4GS is the 1st of these new bunch, things seem to get finished in a rush.The spindal grille and headlights could be better, the lines of exterior and Interior could flow better. And, they forgot to design the meters, and forgot to change the tranny.
Sorry, I dont think that the 4GS is intent to compete with Buick or Lincoln.

We all like the LEXUS, and hope it can have better designs. That is the reason why I am here.
But, just open the door, look at the competition up there.

spwolf

uh, thats your opinion, right? As to the meters... BMW/MB/Audi have nothing different, do they compete with Buick too?

Only car that has really nice meters is new IS or maybe those all-lcd ones that higher classes do.

It is easy to pick few things that you dont like, but all things considered, looking at 4GS matterials and build quality, everyone else is cost cutting.

BornDriver

How long have you been working for LEXUS?

Each gen of GS/IS has its own meters, they didn't just take those leftover in the storage room.

SW17LS

The GS does not have power folding mirrors or a power closing trunk in the US. But, all GS's I have seen have a full suite of front and back parking sensors, and the base, premium & luxury cars have foglights, so GS's cheaper than the F Sport (base & Premium) have foglights, but the F-Sport doesn't.

Seeing that the IS is the same way, I think they are intentionally leaving the foglights off the F Sports in the US for some other reason, which I and obviously you don't understand.

My car is 100% bought off the lot, its a very common luxury package car. I can name 10 members off the top of my head who have the identical car. As for interior materials, you can find places where they could improve on any car cheaper than a Rolls or Bentley. But, compared to other 50-65k midsized luxury sedans, the materials in the 4GS are excellent.

That was exactly my point. If you are a buyer that a power closing trunk and power folding mirrors are more important features to you than the class leading handling and performance, quality and ride and drive of the GS, then you're more suited to something like a Buick or Lincoln than a GS or IS.

Obviously we'd all like those features, but if those were the features I had to give up to get the improvement over the 3GS that the 4GS is...I'm 110% okay with that.

I'd rather have the 18 way luxury seats than power folding mirrors. Life is all about compromise.

Interior is universally praised as best in class. The interior is beautiful, and an upgrade from everything else in the segment. Watch or read the reviews.

Huh? You mean the gauges? The gauges are all new...

I just drove all of it, repeatedly. The only car I liked anything more about was the A6, and that mainly was the exterior styling I liked a little more, and it rode better than the Premium GS, but not the Luxury GS which I had not driven when I drove the A6. From an interior perspective, the GS is far nicer than the A6 which has a lot of plastic.

The exterior of the 4GS has grown on me tremendously, I think the A6 and 5 series are still better looking cars overall, but the GS is a great looking car.

natnut

Please stop accusing other posters of being shills for Lexus just because they don't agree with you that German cars are perfect and incomparable.

FACT : New Lexus GS has been praised in multiple reviews of having best-in-class interior. That's not an opinion. If there's cost cutting, Lexus sure did a good job of hiding it or else the Germans are in more trouble than they know.

FACT : current gen 3.5L Normal Aspirated Lexus 2GR-FSE engine may be down on torque and 2 gears compared to the FI 3L variants from BMW and Audi but smoothness and immediateness of the throttle response of the 3.5L mill is superior to the BMW and reliability and maintenance issues is far less than either FI German engine. 0-60,0-100 of the GS350 is better than the 535i and E350, losing only to the A6 3.0T.