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Looks like a wagon / estate version is coming!

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Old 01-11-13, 07:24 AM   #16
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"Pretty good" and "dominant" are two different things. Their market share is very small.

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Actually, Lexus has no intention what so ever to become a mainstream car in Europe, just like Jaguar and Alfa Romeo. Thats confirmed in many interwievs with Lexus European headquaters.
Even more examples why I think a wagon is unlikely.
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Old 01-11-13, 07:35 AM   #17
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Originally Posted by SW10ES View Post
"Pretty good" and "dominant" are two different things. Their market share is very small.

Even more examples why I think a wagon is unlikely.
Yes, but then Jaguar recently released the XF sportbrake (wagon), Alfa has a wagon of the 159 and so on. Our market is not that logical in many ways. Image and personality is almost everything when it comes to the luxury market. The reputation and style is what gives a company respect, not salesnumbers. High salesnumbers are for "dead" cars like KIA, Hyundai some VW models, and our Toyota models
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Old 01-11-13, 07:43 AM   #18
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Jaguar is a different company than Lexus/Toyota. Europe is their home market, they've successfully sold wagons before. Note...they don't offer the Sportbrake in the US.

I'm not talking about how the public perceives the brand in regards to sales numbers. Toyota/Lexus is a for profit company, if they develop a product...they need to sell them...so I promise you THEY care about sales numbers. We've established that wagons do not sell well in the US, and that they sell well primarily in Europe. We've established that Lexus sells relatively few vehicles in Europe (market share is something like 0.2%) compared to their larger market, the US.

The question is, would Lexus design, build, and market a car that only has a prayer of selling well in its weakest market? I doubt it.

Its not like dropping in a diesel engine or something like that, building a wagon variant is a huge commitment. Any vehicle Lexus develops has got to be able to do well in the US for it to be viable.
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Old 01-11-13, 07:52 AM   #19
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I think they will SW10ES, they know wagons sell well in Europe. Maybe Lexus is trying to better establish itself in the European market. Why not give it a shot, and ship out a couple thousand to the U.S. While their at it
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Old 01-11-13, 07:54 AM   #20
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A wagon really, worst idea i've heard all day.
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Old 01-11-13, 07:57 AM   #21
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Vroomin350 View Post
I think they will SW10ES, they know wagons sell well in Europe. Maybe Lexus is trying to better establish itself in the European market. Why not give it a shot, and ship out a couple thousand to the U.S. While their at it
We'll wait and see. This is not a sound business practice, lets spend tens of millions of dollars and "give it a shot"...not how Toyota does things.

Bear in mind, anything sent to the US has to be crash tested, has to pass DOT standards...big investment for certain failure. Just look at the TSX wagon...one year and done.
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Old 01-11-13, 08:01 AM   #22
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Originally Posted by SW10ES View Post
"Pretty good" and "dominant" are two different things. Their market share is very small.



Even more examples why I think a wagon is unlikely.
what is there to be likely or not likely, Toyota said to check for it in 3 days.
So its going to be there for sure. This is not a rumor.

Their market share in Europe is not small, it is large. In Germany, most A4's are sold as Wagons for instance.
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Old 01-11-13, 08:08 AM   #23
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I only know one thing. If salesnumbers was prio 1, then they should have brought us a diesel like 10 years ago. Honestly, the IS220d is a joke so that one does not count. Its like 15 years after the competition in terms of transmission, power and driveability.

The main reason of "poor sales" is of course Audi, Mecedes and BMW . As I said, image and respect will take another 10 ( at least) years for Lexus to built up here, Europeans are very conservative and rejects alomst everything without history and tradition when it comes to premium products. But on the other hand, if Lexus wants to change that they must do something. An IS Sportcross would be a good step in that direction in my opinion. Actually , I would buy one
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Old 01-11-13, 08:34 AM   #24
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Mr Bond View Post
I only know one thing. If salesnumbers was prio 1, then they should have brought us a diesel like 10 years ago. Honestly, the IS220d is a joke so that one does not count. Its like 15 years after the competition in terms of transmission, power and driveability.
Thats just the thing, thats exactly my point. They haven't invested heavily in diesels for you because they would only be for your market...and Lexus isn't going to do aggressive R&D if the result of that cannot be used for the benefit of their primary market, the US.

Same is true of a wagon.

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if Lexus wants to change that they must do something. An IS Sportcross would be a good step in that direction in my opinion. Actually , I would buy one
I thought you said they had no interest in changing that?

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Originally Posted by spwolf
Their market share in Europe is not small, it is large. In Germany, most A4's are sold as Wagons for instance.
I'm not saying the market share of wagons is small, I'm saying Lexus' market share in Europe is small, which it absolutely is.

Wagons are VERY popular in Europe, but they aren't popular anywhere else, especially here.

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what is there to be likely or not likely, Toyota said to check for it in 3 days.
So its going to be there for sure. This is not a rumor.
You don't know whether its going to be a production vehicle, or a concept. The statement from Lexus was very vague, and could very well have been to hold excitement about the IS reveal even in light of the leaked pictures.

I could be wrong, and maybe Lexus will try the same failure again...but mark my words, if they do it'll be one and done, like the TSX.
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Old 01-11-13, 08:36 AM   #25
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IMO Lexus is not even trying in Europe.
Here, in Switzerland, the CT starts at 42300 Fr, when A3 - at 29800, 1 series at 25900 and A-class at 33300.
Same with IS vs A4, 3-ser and C-class - 54100 vs 38200, 33900 and 45300.
Or GS vs A6, 5 and E-class - 69900 vs 50850, 54300 and 55200.

What sales are to be expected when a base CT is more expensive than base A4 and 3-series?

Lexus offers much more upscale base models, but it is the base versions that generate sales.
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Old 01-11-13, 08:37 AM   #26
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Originally Posted by DFGeneer View Post
IMO Lexus is not even trying in Europe.
Here, in Switzerland, the CT starts at 42300 Fr, when A3 - at 29800, 1 series at 25900 and A-class at 33300.
Same with IS vs A4, 3-ser and C-class - 54100 vs 38200, 33900 and 45300.
Or GS vs A6, 5 and E-class - 69900 vs 50850, 54300 and 55200.

Lexus offers much more upscale base models, but it is the base versions that generate sales.
yes... this is why new IS300h, GS300h and probably this Sport Cross are coming!

300h engine was made for Europe especially. 220hp and 99g/C02.
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Old 01-11-13, 08:38 AM   #27
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Originally Posted by SW10ES View Post
Thats just the thing, thats exactly my point. They haven't invested heavily in diesels for you because they would only be for your market...and Lexus isn't going to do aggressive R&D if the result of that cannot be used for the benefit of their primary market, the US.

Same is true of a wagon.



I thought you said they had no interest in changing that?



I'm not saying the market share of wagons is small, I'm saying Lexus' market share in Europe is small, which it absolutely is.

Wagons are VERY popular in Europe, but they aren't popular anywhere else, especially here.



You don't know whether its going to be a production vehicle, or a concept. The statement from Lexus was very vague, and could very well have been to hold excitement about the IS reveal even in light of the leaked pictures.

I could be wrong, and maybe Lexus will try the same failure again...but mark my words, if they do it'll be one and done, like the TSX.
there are no leaked pictures, Lexus published PR and pics on their own site. Wagon is coming.
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Old 01-11-13, 08:39 AM   #28
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Lexus sold 43,000 units in 2011 in Europe...in the US it sold 200,000.

Just to put that into perspective, Lexus sells about 80,000 ES sedans in the US a year. Just the ES.
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Old 01-11-13, 08:40 AM   #29
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Quote:
Originally Posted by spwolf View Post
there are no leaked pictures, Lexus published PR and pics on their own site. Wagon is coming.
Lexus published the pictures after pictures were leaked.

We'll see.
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Old 01-11-13, 08:50 AM   #30
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Originally Posted by SW10ES View Post
Lexus sold 43,000 units in 2011 in Europe...in the US it sold 200,000.

Just to put that into perspective, Lexus sells about 80,000 ES sedans in the US a year. Just the ES.
which is why they are making more models for Europe to improve the sales. I am struggling to see whats so hard to understand.
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Old 01-11-13, 08:50 AM
 
 
 
 
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