High Speed Driving Course: My first trip to the track
05-22-15, 11:57 AM
#1
Pole Position
Thread Starter
High Speed Driving Course: My first trip to the track
This driving school was my first time on the track, not counting autocross. I had a great time. I think track might become addictive, though. Not to mention a little pricey.
I started this partly to update a few threads I had started. I have already provided some update on Akebono brake pads here (post #9) . I think they held up pretty well on the track. They aren't a race pad, they are an every day pad. Given the amount of pad I scrubbed off (about 3 out of 17 mm front, 2 of 14 mm rear), I think you could get 4 track sessions out of these unless you are really hard on your brakes. Given that I'm still pretty new to this, I'm not that hard on brakes. Also, these pads have been in the car about 8 mo.
I also started a thread here where I talked about my coilovers and swapping the fronts to the rear, and the rears to the front. I think the car handled pretty well on the track. I'm going to leave it this way.
Finally, some info on Nitto NT05. I ran these last summer and so far this summer, so they probably only have 4k miles on them. I've also run 7 autoX events. The rears are now down to the wear bars and the fronts are close. I think I've been running too much toe up front. Wear on the front is uneven. Wear on the rear is even. The front may need some more camber as well. I've increased from about 1.5 degrees to 2.0 degrees up front and reduced the toe from about 4mm total to about 0.5mm total (over a 24" measurement). I've not run any other high performance tire in my life, so I can't do a proper comparison. I had read that these were bad in the wet. One of the on track sessions I had was wet and rainy, but not so much that there was a lot of standing water. If I had been unable to avoid the standing water that I did see, I'm sure they would have been hydroplaning, but I did manage to keep off it for the most part. The instructors told us after that the dry line still seemed to be the line. They expected us to have to modify it. Most of the others in my run group stayed with the dry line. I modified a bit, and my instructor thought my choice of line was good. Maybe not every corner, but overall. Given that, I was pretty happy with how these tires gripped in the wet. I was able to push it a lot more than I thought I'd be able to. In fact, I passed most of the people in my run group. This was my 3rd session on track, and first of the day. During the previous day, we did 2 track sessions in the afternoon, and I got passed by a number of cars. Mostly in the first session (my first on a track ever), a few less in the second session.
So overall, I've been happy with the Nitto's but one or two more track sessions and I think they'll be done. So despite a UTQG of 200, I'd conclude they don't deserve that rating. They suck in the snow. Bad.
During the 4th session, the track dried up and we were all back to the dry line. My driving by this point had made substantial improvement in smoothness. I still have lots to work on.
Shortly after that session, my instructor offered to take me out on track as a passenger in his Porshe Cayman. Any delusions of grandeur I might have had died right there.
He was a really good instructor and a really good driver as well. I'm sure the car didn't hurt, but I think he'd have been pretty quick in anything. Really smooth driver. Great line (he deviated from the line we were given). Seemed like quick smooth transitions from full throttle to threshold braking with LOTS of full throttle and threshold braking and not much else. Gives me something to shoot for.
I tried his line out a bit in my 5th session. I would have to agree that it was a better line. I passed several cars in my run group. Stupid me, though, I had to cut the session a bit short because I was nearly out of gas. Maybe I passed those guys because my car was lighter. This was also the session where my brakes began to chatter a bit because I failed to bed them in properly.
In the final session, after getting some gas, we decided to go softer on the brakes and concentrate a little more on the line. Brakes were still chattering, but I didn't experience fade with them. A little lighter on the brakes and paying more attention to other things was a positive, all things considered. It gave me a chance to work on improving other areas I probably wouldn't have worked on otherwise, like looking ahead, using both hands to steer, instead of just pulling down with one hand. Transitions into and out of corners etc. Still, after the first lap where I was still testing brakes, no one passed me and I kept up to the Porshe Carrera in front of me.
What a great time though. Learned a lot. I'd highly recommend doing something like this if you can afford 5 or 6 track sessions a year. If you can't afford that many, I'd recommend NOT doing a course like this. You'll hate not being able to get back out there ... A taste of forbidden fruit kind of thing!
I started this partly to update a few threads I had started. I have already provided some update on Akebono brake pads here (post #9) . I think they held up pretty well on the track. They aren't a race pad, they are an every day pad. Given the amount of pad I scrubbed off (about 3 out of 17 mm front, 2 of 14 mm rear), I think you could get 4 track sessions out of these unless you are really hard on your brakes. Given that I'm still pretty new to this, I'm not that hard on brakes. Also, these pads have been in the car about 8 mo.
I also started a thread here where I talked about my coilovers and swapping the fronts to the rear, and the rears to the front. I think the car handled pretty well on the track. I'm going to leave it this way.
Finally, some info on Nitto NT05. I ran these last summer and so far this summer, so they probably only have 4k miles on them. I've also run 7 autoX events. The rears are now down to the wear bars and the fronts are close. I think I've been running too much toe up front. Wear on the front is uneven. Wear on the rear is even. The front may need some more camber as well. I've increased from about 1.5 degrees to 2.0 degrees up front and reduced the toe from about 4mm total to about 0.5mm total (over a 24" measurement). I've not run any other high performance tire in my life, so I can't do a proper comparison. I had read that these were bad in the wet. One of the on track sessions I had was wet and rainy, but not so much that there was a lot of standing water. If I had been unable to avoid the standing water that I did see, I'm sure they would have been hydroplaning, but I did manage to keep off it for the most part. The instructors told us after that the dry line still seemed to be the line. They expected us to have to modify it. Most of the others in my run group stayed with the dry line. I modified a bit, and my instructor thought my choice of line was good. Maybe not every corner, but overall. Given that, I was pretty happy with how these tires gripped in the wet. I was able to push it a lot more than I thought I'd be able to. In fact, I passed most of the people in my run group. This was my 3rd session on track, and first of the day. During the previous day, we did 2 track sessions in the afternoon, and I got passed by a number of cars. Mostly in the first session (my first on a track ever), a few less in the second session.
So overall, I've been happy with the Nitto's but one or two more track sessions and I think they'll be done. So despite a UTQG of 200, I'd conclude they don't deserve that rating. They suck in the snow. Bad.
During the 4th session, the track dried up and we were all back to the dry line. My driving by this point had made substantial improvement in smoothness. I still have lots to work on.
Shortly after that session, my instructor offered to take me out on track as a passenger in his Porshe Cayman. Any delusions of grandeur I might have had died right there.
He was a really good instructor and a really good driver as well. I'm sure the car didn't hurt, but I think he'd have been pretty quick in anything. Really smooth driver. Great line (he deviated from the line we were given). Seemed like quick smooth transitions from full throttle to threshold braking with LOTS of full throttle and threshold braking and not much else. Gives me something to shoot for.I tried his line out a bit in my 5th session. I would have to agree that it was a better line. I passed several cars in my run group. Stupid me, though, I had to cut the session a bit short because I was nearly out of gas. Maybe I passed those guys because my car was lighter.
This was also the session where my brakes began to chatter a bit because I failed to bed them in properly.In the final session, after getting some gas, we decided to go softer on the brakes and concentrate a little more on the line. Brakes were still chattering, but I didn't experience fade with them. A little lighter on the brakes and paying more attention to other things was a positive, all things considered. It gave me a chance to work on improving other areas I probably wouldn't have worked on otherwise, like looking ahead, using both hands to steer, instead of just pulling down with one hand. Transitions into and out of corners etc. Still, after the first lap where I was still testing brakes, no one passed me and I kept up to the Porshe Carrera in front of me.
What a great time though. Learned a lot. I'd highly recommend doing something like this if you can afford 5 or 6 track sessions a year. If you can't afford that many, I'd recommend NOT doing a course like this. You'll hate not being able to get back out there ... A taste of forbidden fruit kind of thing!
05-22-15, 02:28 PM
#3
Pole Position
Thread Starter
If I do this much, I may wind up with a set of those. I read some article where the person said if you drive race pads to the track, the first bit of braking you do will be abrasive, not adhesive, which will clean the old deposits off the rotors, and then you can bed them properly. Also drive the race pads after the track event when they have cooled and you can bed your street pad the next time you put them on. I suspect the Akebono will experience fade once I gain some more experience and start braking later and harder. I was just impressed that they held up well enough for a rookie to use them.
05-22-15, 03:51 PM
#4
^Besides true BBKs, your best bet would be the Carbotechs. Just do research and call them to ensure you purchase the best pad for your application.
Did they require you to have the latest approved helmet? Things might be different in Canada then the US, but they have a new helmet requirement for 2015 from all of my previous readings online.
You honestly tried driving with those Nittos in the snow? WOW!
Did they require you to have the latest approved helmet? Things might be different in Canada then the US, but they have a new helmet requirement for 2015 from all of my previous readings online.
You honestly tried driving with those Nittos in the snow? WOW!
05-22-15, 04:10 PM
#5
Pole Position
Thread Starter
Oh, you read my other thread on the snow!! I know that because you commented on it. There was a snowstorm while I was out of town, before I had a chance to swap them with my winters. Trying to be careful wasn't sufficient!
My helmet is Snell 2010 M. You can track with an M, but not race. I think you can get away with a Snell 2005 still, but last year, at least in autoX, you could still get away with Snell 2000.
I was looking at another thread where skyshadow commented that a lower than expected dyno run could be because of heavier rims. So I found this which also mentions the improvement you'd get in braking. While I doubt that would be enough to explain my success with Akebono pads, it was probably a contributing factor. My rims are about 10 lbs per wheel lighter than stock, and the NT05 are a pretty light tire as well.
My helmet is Snell 2010 M. You can track with an M, but not race. I think you can get away with a Snell 2005 still, but last year, at least in autoX, you could still get away with Snell 2000.
I was looking at another thread where skyshadow commented that a lower than expected dyno run could be because of heavier rims. So I found this which also mentions the improvement you'd get in braking. While I doubt that would be enough to explain my success with Akebono pads, it was probably a contributing factor. My rims are about 10 lbs per wheel lighter than stock, and the NT05 are a pretty light tire as well.
05-23-15, 08:22 PM
#6
What a great time though. Learned a lot. I'd highly recommend doing something like this if you can afford 5 or 6 track sessions a year. If you can't afford that many, I'd recommend NOT doing a course like this. You'll hate not being able to get back out there ... A taste of forbidden fruit kind of thing!
The car is surprisingly well suited for it, except for being pretty heavy. I went to my first track weekend a few months ago and my experience was very similar to yours. I might only make it to one more this year due to scheduling difficulties and the limited number of clubs/events available, but they consume your entire weekend and then some so I think it would be draining (but also awesome 
) to do one every month.The instructors at my event only talked about brake fade due to boiling your brake fluid caused by not changing it within 6 months before going to the track. My stock low dust Lexus pads didn't fade even with a 120mph to 50mph braking zone at the end of the main straightaway and a 100mph to 60mph zone on the back straightaway.
05-24-15, 09:23 AM
#7
Glad to see more IS350 track fun. It is so addicting. I have been taking my to the track for the last 2-3 years and after about 16 track days the car has not let me down. With a few basic mods the IS350 will actually hold it's own against stock M3's in handling, but not in power unfortunately. Here are some tips I found that have improved my cars performance over the years.
Suspension: F-Sport rear sway bar which is a must have. BC coilovers with 12/10K Swift springs. Like them a lot but if I knew I was going to track my car this much I might have stepped up to something better. Camber adjustments front and rear. Currently running -2deg up front and -1.5 in the rear. Seems to be a good track/street setting. Thar is pretty much all for suspension settings. Car runs much better now and tire ware is much improved. A LSD would be hugely helpful but way to expensive. Run a 255/35/18 square setup.
Breaks: Get good break fluid. Sucks boiling your break fluid at the end of a 120mph strait. Ask me how I know. Luckily I just got dirty going off track! I am running ATE Super Blue and it seems to hold up really well up to a high intermediate level. After the first few track days you will need it. As for pads I ran OEM first which were really bad. Really bad fade on my second track day and were gone in less than 2 track days. Switched to StopTech and EBC yellowstuff which were a bit better but still faded a lot if you push them hard and last 3-4 days depending on track. Currently running CarboTech XP10/8 and love them. Run the XP8's in the rear for daily driving but the XP10 in the front I swap out for street pads due to unbearable noise. Very minimal fade on these expecty for the really high speed tracks but all in all I am very happy with them. Have 5 track days on my current pads and still have more than 50% life. Yes they are expensive but last a lot longer on the track so they end up being a wash.
Tires: Started with Hankook V12's. Really soft sidewall caused really bad outer edge ware. Started chunking after a few times out so I ditched them. 2nd pair was Nitto NT05's. Good tire for the price (Cheap) but still have a soft sidewall so outer edge ware is an issue. OK grip but not up to pare with higher end tires. Wore super quick. 3rd set Toyo R888 take offs. Got these to test out my 255/35/18 square setup. They were a bit worn but still way better than the NT05's. No outer edge ware due to the stiff sidewall and great precision tire. Current set Dunlop Direzza Zll. Love them. I think they have similar handling characteristics to the R888 but not the ultimate grip which is fine as the R-Comp is a bit to much for the IS350 in near stock form. Even ware, no tire roll, and great handling. Also if you are going to track your car 4+ times a year get a 2nd set of wheels for dedicated track tires. It will save you money! Good track tires with get about 8K street miles. Crappy street tires will get eaten up at the track. Also aftermarket wheels are way lighter. I shaved 40lbs off my wheels from my $500 second hand konig milligrams.
Hope this helps. The IS350 can be super fun at the track. My only issue is everyone thinks it is slower than it really is and people won't let me pass! When S2000's and M3 see me on their rear bumper they think it is a fluke and try and speed up. After a lap of me trailing them they finally let me pass.
Suspension: F-Sport rear sway bar which is a must have. BC coilovers with 12/10K Swift springs. Like them a lot but if I knew I was going to track my car this much I might have stepped up to something better. Camber adjustments front and rear. Currently running -2deg up front and -1.5 in the rear. Seems to be a good track/street setting. Thar is pretty much all for suspension settings. Car runs much better now and tire ware is much improved. A LSD would be hugely helpful but way to expensive. Run a 255/35/18 square setup.
Breaks: Get good break fluid. Sucks boiling your break fluid at the end of a 120mph strait. Ask me how I know. Luckily I just got dirty going off track! I am running ATE Super Blue and it seems to hold up really well up to a high intermediate level. After the first few track days you will need it. As for pads I ran OEM first which were really bad. Really bad fade on my second track day and were gone in less than 2 track days. Switched to StopTech and EBC yellowstuff which were a bit better but still faded a lot if you push them hard and last 3-4 days depending on track. Currently running CarboTech XP10/8 and love them. Run the XP8's in the rear for daily driving but the XP10 in the front I swap out for street pads due to unbearable noise. Very minimal fade on these expecty for the really high speed tracks but all in all I am very happy with them. Have 5 track days on my current pads and still have more than 50% life. Yes they are expensive but last a lot longer on the track so they end up being a wash.
Tires: Started with Hankook V12's. Really soft sidewall caused really bad outer edge ware. Started chunking after a few times out so I ditched them. 2nd pair was Nitto NT05's. Good tire for the price (Cheap) but still have a soft sidewall so outer edge ware is an issue. OK grip but not up to pare with higher end tires. Wore super quick. 3rd set Toyo R888 take offs. Got these to test out my 255/35/18 square setup. They were a bit worn but still way better than the NT05's. No outer edge ware due to the stiff sidewall and great precision tire. Current set Dunlop Direzza Zll. Love them. I think they have similar handling characteristics to the R888 but not the ultimate grip which is fine as the R-Comp is a bit to much for the IS350 in near stock form. Even ware, no tire roll, and great handling. Also if you are going to track your car 4+ times a year get a 2nd set of wheels for dedicated track tires. It will save you money! Good track tires with get about 8K street miles. Crappy street tires will get eaten up at the track. Also aftermarket wheels are way lighter. I shaved 40lbs off my wheels from my $500 second hand konig milligrams.
Hope this helps. The IS350 can be super fun at the track. My only issue is everyone thinks it is slower than it really is and people won't let me pass! When S2000's and M3 see me on their rear bumper they think it is a fluke and try and speed up. After a lap of me trailing them they finally let me pass.
Trending Topics
05-24-15, 11:03 AM
#8
Lexus Champion
iTrader: (21)
Join Date: Apr 2008
Location: california
Posts: 2,970
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Glad to see more IS350 track fun. It is so addicting. I have been taking my to the track for the last 2-3 years and after about 16 track days the car has not let me down. With a few basic mods the IS350 will actually hold it's own against stock M3's in handling, but not in power unfortunately. Here are some tips I found that have improved my cars performance over the years.
05-25-15, 11:31 AM
#9
Pole Position
Thread Starter
Yeah, I have a conundrum regarding tires and wheels. I LIKE having the same setup on the street that I use on the track. I also like the look of my rims vs. stock, and dropping 10lbs per corner helps. I didn't buy them for track, I bought them for DD, and I don't really want to give that up. I also like having a nice sticky street tire. I don't feel the need for an R-compound tire for the track. Nonetheless, you are right, it will be expensive getting a decent track/autocross tire and then using it on the street. Pilot supersport seems to be a good mix of the two, but I still have to investigate and make a decision.
05-25-15, 05:15 PM
#11
Pole Position
Thread Starter
Every 2k miles. They recommend their own. I use amsoil 75/115 or so. And I need to add a half bottle of the friction modifier to that as well.
I changed it after the first 500 miles, just to let it break in. That was about the beginning of July last year, as I recall. I changed it again in the fall and again this spring. Still a hell of a lot of fun! Seems to be running well.
I use amsoil 75/115 or so. And I need to add a half bottle of the friction modifier to that as well. I changed it after the first 500 miles, just to let it break in. That was about the beginning of July last year, as I recall. I changed it again in the fall and again this spring. Still a hell of a lot of fun! Seems to be running well.
05-26-15, 06:33 AM
#12
Another great upgrade to consider for AutoX and track days is the FIGS front LCA bushings.
At my last track day event, I immediately noticed the improvement in stability and steering response during trail-braking which were a result from the stiffer bushings.
At my last track day event, I immediately noticed the improvement in stability and steering response during trail-braking which were a result from the stiffer bushings.
05-26-15, 07:25 AM
#13
Pole Position
Thread Starter
Those FIGS bushings are another item under consideration.
At a recent autocross, one of the guys I met also races. He said there is a simple test to see if you have what it takes to race. If you can hold a $100 bill over a flame and not cry while it is burning, then you have what it takes.
At a recent autocross, one of the guys I met also races. He said there is a simple test to see if you have what it takes to race. If you can hold a $100 bill over a flame and not cry while it is burning, then you have what it takes.
05-27-15, 07:58 AM
#15
Rookie
Join Date: Sep 2012
Location: NJ
Posts: 70
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Wow after reading this, I can't wait to take mine to my first road course event. I just recently finished modding the suspension and braking system and it feels great. I'm excited to see how it performs on a proper track. I've taken it to autocross stock and it did fairly well. I actually have Hankooks on now. I know you mentioned they sucked on the course OP, but I'll use them for now and get familiar with the ins and outs of road racing. Once that's done I'll upgrade or possibly just buy a dedicated wheel/tire set for the track only.