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First off I want to thank all the members for their input, I know that figuring out what is needed to run at the track is fairly simple, but being able to read through and get some quick dedicated knowledge goes along way! I am actually happy to read a lot of these post and actually find some strong valid points and get a feel for those on this site that actually track! Crossing over to Lexus has satisfied me immensely, I'm fairly young at 23 years old, but what drew me to Lexus was the fact that they are so damn reliable! I had an LS400 in high school that surpassed 300k miles and that was spectacular. I am really excited to make the next season, I bought this car with the confidence that It will make an awesome daily that will get me to the track.. run hard sessions and get me home.
My 06 IS350
My Previous Civic Hatch "functional/daily" only owned it for 4 months before I sold it to get the Lexus
My 2000 Accord V6 "when I was in the stance game..." this was my car before the Civic
I'd like to thank you guys for making this forum feel so welcoming, I feel like i've come a long way just by transitioning over and look forward to meeting new people on the forum. the people here are very intellectual, haha go to honda-tech or any honda forum and the difference is clear..
Good to hear!!! Coincidentally enough, I also owned a Honda Accord 2000 back in college day and I moved over to Lexus IS because of reliability. Not to mention the IS is just so beautiful and smexy inside and outside. Anyways, welcome to ClubLexus
What tracks do you go to? And you are into sprint race right?
I concur that the Lexus is beautiful inside and out! I do just regular HPDE events at the road course we have up here in Minnesota, our local track is Brainerd International Raceway. Not really looking to run competitively, just looking forward to learning a new chassis and drivetrain. I hope to have the IS up and ready to go by next summer.. Cause up here in MN we get brutal winters.. And since i've sold my Civic, the Lexus will have to bear winter also!
Good luck in your pursuit. Don't forget to continue video tape your run and share it here with us. Yeah, the fun factor is the most important to me as well. I treat it like a hobby instead of career
WylieKylie, wow, you made a lot of very strong statements there. First and foremost, my question is simply trying to learn more and not into argument. You said "I don't see any sense in throwing shocks/coilovers/swaybars/other random "upgrades" at the car until alignment is right". I would like to ask you 2 questions:
1. Can you tell us the "right" alignment specs. Be specific please and show some reasoning.
2. I would like to see data log or at least lap times to back this up. The comparison between IS with shocks or coils/F Sport rear sway bar vs. a stock car with so called "right" alignment.
Sorry, I can't definitively answer your questions. No one can, but I can provide some insight into why I ran down my particular rabbit hole. I started with alignment for several reasons. First it can have a drastic affect on how the car handles and how the tires wear. I wasn't exactly happy with either in completely stock form. 2nd, I wanted to see how much I could improve the handling and tire wear with just alignment and tire changes (this is obviously quite subjective). 3rd, I was hoping that trying to find higher limits with a basically stock suspension setup would help me decide that either the car is good enough as is, or that if it wasn't good enough where the best place would be to start replacing which stock bits with what aftermarket bits.
On to your questions:
1. The "right" alignment, IMO, is one that strikes a balance between performance and tire wear. That may not be the right alignment for you if you have different priorities. The camber specs I chose are pretty mainstreem for higher performance, and the toe setting came straight from lobuxracer's alignment thread. Both toe and camber are conservative enough that they shouldn't wear the tires drastically - that was my reasoning. My specs:
Front Camber -1.6*
Front Toe 1mm out
Rear Camber -1.0*
Rear Toe 0
As stated before: I don't have enough miles on the setup to tell you for sure how it is working, and my financial situation kept me off of the track this summer. What I can report is that my first guess on alignment settings made a bigger difference than I thought they would, but I am no-where near where I want to be with the car. The biggest difference that I can attribute to the alignment is that turn-in hapens RIGHT NOW! This car is no longer a lazy freeway cruiser, it WANTS to change direction, small steering inputs near center make a much bigger difference in how the car responds. Some people might call it "twitchy" and may not like it.
2. When it comes to alignment I don't think you will ever get this kind of info from the 2IS world. Too expensive and time consuming, and the alignment that provides the fastest lap time, or highest cornering force or speed is going to be different from one track to the next, and is going to eat tires like a fat kid eats cupcakes. For that matter I haven't seen anything and don't expect to see anything objective with respect to any other suspension changes.
Originally Posted by FSportIS
I wonder if we are just talking about high performance summer tire and NOT racing slick nor semi slick tire, which one is better than PSS? Please give us the technical insight.
As far as higher performance tires go, spend a few minutes poking around Tirerack.com. Tire Rack puts the PSS in the "Max Performance Summer" category. If I had my way (and I was more sure that I could get at least 10,000 miles out of them including a handful of trips to the track). I would choose something from the "Extreme Performance Summer" category. They are not semi slicks, they are perfectly streetable (although some of you who live where it rains constantly might think they aren't). They all have sidewalls that are so stiff they just might bruise your kidneys, and you won't find anything with a treadwear warranty. On the other hand they hold up to track abuse much better, and the amount of grip they provide is just silly fun. I will admit that as good as the PSS is for the category it is in, I REALLY wish Michelin would release a tire in the "Extreme" category.
Very good research on the alignment and thank you a lot for sharing. I might try this alignment out on track once.
I really like your technical information on the alignment aimed specifically for performance and tire wear in mind. I also do agree that alignment does affect handling in the corners. However, I also want to point out that alignment is not the only factor that can affect handling. There are also suspension components such as springs/shocks/sway bar/ LSD and what not. More importantly, all of these components together with alignment have to work together to determine the final handling characteristics.
Regarding the tires, the comparison is not fair because you are then comparing two categories tires. It is like you calling the ISF being slow because the F1 open wheel race car is faster. For the tires in the extreme performance category, I don't see why people would run these as street tires because these last very short and expensive. May be I should have rephrased my question to "what is a better high performance street tire that is better than the PSS". I think Michelin Pilot Super Sport deserves to have some credit here and is one of the best high performance street tire. That is all many people are saying.
sooo... does anybody have a recommendation on a set of track dedicated tires? I have a set of 18x9.5 wheels looking to run maybe a 265 40 18 all around?
265/40 18 is pretty big for the front of the car. Bigger diameter, bigger width, without a-lot of work you are going to rub all over the place. I wouldn't try and track the car with that size tire up front. There are also virtually no streetable track tires, or track tires available in that size. the best "track" tire available in that size, IMO, is the Hankook Ventus R-S3, but that is not really a "track" tire, I've run that class of tire as a daily driver summer tire.
My opinion, is you should look at a Toyo Proxes R888 in 255/35-18 for the front, and either that same size, or a 265 or 275/35 in the rear. The R888 can legally be driven on the road, just stay away from rain and standing water. If you want to go to a full slick, have fun! I don't have much of an opinion there, and I don't think it would make much difference what you choose...
There are lots of opinions on the subject of tires, and I know it's been brought up on this forum before. Sorry in advance for the derail on this. Most instructors will tell you to hold off on r-comp tires until you have a fair amount of seat time. Some organizations won't let beginners on track with what would be considered "track tires."
Will a set of NT01 or slick scrubs cut your lap times immediately? Absolutely. You can still develop your on track driving skills on "normal" tires though. You need to learn to find the limit, and drive at that limit. That limit is going to be lower or a set of R-S3's or Pilot Super Sports (or whatever you happen to be driving on) than with r-comps. Learning the corning limits at 50mph is a lot safer than learning the limit at 70mph. With the the increased grip, you also put a lot more strain on suspension pieces, a lot more heat into the brakes, more heat in the engine. A lot of things go together.
So, should you get a good set of tires for the track? Absolutely yes! Track driving is a ton of fun, but you don't need to be running hoosiers to have a good time.
I am definitely going for an R compound as these wheels will be track only. I ran falken azenis on my old civic but I know for a fact the side walls are too soft to hold the weight of thr is350 on the track. Ive heard really good things about dunlop direzzas on the evolutionm forum. I like to relate the weights cause an evo probably weighs about as much as our Is350's. Im hoping to find a decent set of tires that will last at least 2 track days. thanks for all the input you guys!
for anybody that tracked, how did your tires wear? any recommendations as to purchase some camber arms to help save tires?
09-10-14, 10:25 AM
I don't have much of an opinion there, and I don't think it would make much difference what you choose...
