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So I took my 350 on a canyon-type road today

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Old 07-07-14, 08:55 AM   #61
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Originally Posted by Re3iRtH View Post
What data / results are you referring to?
Local AutoX results/ data comparing to other cars with different prep levels.

For instance; I was faster than a random guy driving a Porsche GT3 RS at a local AutoX so therefore my car handles better, it is faster and improved…these results have nothing to do with the cars, these results are a product of driving skills.
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Old 07-07-14, 09:11 AM   #62
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Originally Posted by Re3iRtH View Post
Just curious, where would a rear strut bar go in this car, through the trunk?

I will install the rear sway and chassis brace this week. I didn't order a front sway, because I
read (can't find the post off hand) that the F-sport front sway only adds 5% stiffness over stock,
and the rear sway adds something like 150% more..

I am interested in F/R strut bars, which do you guys like?
For 99% of the population strut bars aren't going to do squat for performance. If you like the way they look, grab a set, but if you are expecting any difference in the way the car behaves you will be dissapointed.
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Old 07-07-14, 09:15 AM   #63
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I was just curious where a rear strut bar would traverse in this car.

And by 99% of the population, you mean all of us here on the forum?
I was wondering if there was anyone on CL with strut bars,
because I don't recall seeing anyone yet.


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Originally Posted by WylieKylie View Post
For 99% of the population strut bars aren't going to do squat for performance. If you like the way they look, grab a set, but if you are expecting any difference in the way the car behaves you will be dissapointed.
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Old 07-07-14, 10:18 AM   #64
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Originally Posted by Re3iRtH View Post
I was just curious where a rear strut bar would traverse in this car.

And by 99% of the population, you mean all of us here on the forum?
I was wondering if there was anyone on CL with strut bars,
because I don't recall seeing anyone yet.
Basically yes on the 99%. On a car with struts, a strut bar can help eliminate uncontrolled suspension movement and dynamic alignment changes. On a car like the 2IS (no struts, so technically it would be a "shock tower brace") it can stiffen the chassis a bit, but you'd be hard pressed to notice it.

I've never seen a rear strut brace for the 2IS, but I haven't looked and wouldn't pay enough attention to remember if I had seen one, but yes it would go in the trunk, spanning from one shock tower to the other. I have seen quite a few front strut braces (enough to remember that they do exist!) Search for pictures of Sffd103's engine bay, I know he has a front strut brace.
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Old 07-07-14, 10:24 AM   #65
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Quote:
Originally Posted by An2ny View Post
Local AutoX results/ data comparing to other cars with different prep levels.

For instance; I was faster than a random guy driving a Porsche GT3 RS at a local AutoX so therefore my car handles better, it is faster and improved…these results have nothing to do with the cars, these results are a product of driving skills.
As the old saying goes, "Autox is 80% driver, 20% car".

On one of my previous posts, I did mention that a track-tuned IS350 will pull comparable skidpad and slalom figures to the benchmark E46 M3. Of course, anything can happen at an AutoX. At the last AutoX event that I attended, the fastest time of the day was from a driver in a FWD Mazda2!!
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Old 07-07-14, 10:31 AM   #66
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I was very close to buying two E46 M3s when searching for a car replacement. I really liked
how tight the steering was, very similar to my s2000.

What I didn't like is even at the ones with only 20-40k miles, the interior was all scuffed and
looked like the car had 100k miles. Talk about 'melting' interior.
And 9 different owners on a car with 31k miles? Almost like no one wanted it .


Quote:
Originally Posted by redspencer View Post
As the old saying goes, "Autox is 80% driver, 20% car".

On one of my previous posts, I did mention that a track-tuned IS350 will pull comparable skidpad and slalom figures to the benchmark E46 M3. Of course, anything can happen at an AutoX. At the last AutoX event that I attended, the fastest time of the day was from a driver in a FWD Mazda2!!
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Old 07-07-14, 11:00 AM   #67
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I don't disagree with you. I would like to add more points below though.

Instead of looking at the slowest time for Porsche GT3 RS, you could have look for the FASTEST time and if there are consistent competitive times from that same car from different competent drivers, then that tells something about the cars.

For example, I ran autocross with Porsche club, many of them are experienced and some of them compete in national level. Their times are very competitive and consistently close to each others provided that the cars are in the same class. Then by looking at the fastest time of each class, I can learn the potential of that car.

Quote:
Originally Posted by An2ny View Post
Local AutoX results/ data comparing to other cars with different prep levels.

For instance; I was faster than a random guy driving a Porsche GT3 RS at a local AutoX so therefore my car handles better, it is faster and improved…these results have nothing to do with the cars, these results are a product of driving skills.
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Last edited by FSportIS; 07-07-14 at 11:13 AM..
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Old 07-07-14, 11:09 AM   #68
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I agree with you to some extend but in autoX, I think it is 40% drivers, 20% car, 20% tire, 20% track.

If the track has a lot of straight away, cars with more torque/HP will benefits (e.g. IS350, Corvette etc > Miata, s2k). If the track has a lot more tight slalom, agile lightweight small cars even with less torque/HP will benefit (e.g. Miata, s2k > IS).

Also, putting sticky race tires on ANY car, the lap time will improve. I know tire is part of the car but I just want to make it more specific that the tire contributes a lot to lap time too.

Quote:
Originally Posted by redspencer View Post
As the old saying goes, "Autox is 80% driver, 20% car".

On one of my previous posts, I did mention that a track-tuned IS350 will pull comparable skidpad and slalom figures to the benchmark E46 M3. Of course, anything can happen at an AutoX. At the last AutoX event that I attended, the fastest time of the day was from a driver in a FWD Mazda2!!
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2006 IS350 Luxury Package & Nav & Mark Levinson : FSport Springs & Shocks & Rear Sway Bar, M2 exhaust, Yellow Brake Calipers, MyRide Diffuser, 3000k HID Fog, Opticoat Entire Car.
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Old 07-07-14, 11:41 AM   #69
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Yes that sounds correct!

Many people assume right away that its is mostly just driver but some fail to realize that if you autoX in different locations you will realize that tires, track add a huge wrench in the mix!

As for the OP, yes the strut bar in the back will require you to make cut outs on the foam panels.
Cusco sells them and they are nice and thick bars too that add solid support while being lightweight since its aluminum.

Quote:
Originally Posted by FSportIS View Post
I agree with you to some extend but in autoX, I think it is 40% drivers, 20% car, 20% tire, 20% track.

If the track has a lot of straight away, cars with more torque/HP will benefits (e.g. IS350, Corvette etc > Miata, s2k). If the track has a lot more tight slalom, agile lightweight small cars even with less torque/HP will benefit (e.g. Miata, s2k > IS).

Also, putting sticky race tires on ANY car, the lap time will improve. I know tire is part of the car but I just want to make it more specific that the tire contributes a lot to lap time too.
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Old 07-07-14, 12:56 PM   #70
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Quote:
Originally Posted by redspencer View Post
As the old saying goes, "Autox is 80% driver, 20% car".

On one of my previous posts, I did mention that a track-tuned IS350 will pull comparable skidpad and slalom figures to the benchmark E46 M3. Of course, anything can happen at an AutoX. At the last AutoX event that I attended, the fastest time of the day was from a driver in a FWD Mazda2!!
It was a complement, you are a better driver

There is a video comparing the IS350 stock vs. the sport package, and the SP was a lot faster around some track. (It was a Lexus video so I don’t know how much I believe it)
Also I remember seeing another test from Edmunds maybe??? Where the IS250 with the sport package put some very competitive numbers.



Quote:
Originally Posted by FSportIS View Post
I don't disagree with you. I would like to add more points below though.

Instead of looking at the slowest time for Porsche GT3 RS, you could have look for the FASTEST time and if there are consistent competitive times from that same car from different competent drivers, then that tells something about the cars.

For example, I ran autocross with Porsche club, many of them are experienced and some of them compete in national level. Their times are very competitive and consistently close to each others provided that the cars are in the same class. Then by looking at the fastest time of each class, I can learn the potential of that car.
Quote:
Originally Posted by FSportIS View Post
I agree with you to some extend but in autoX, I think it is 40% drivers, 20% car, 20% tire, 20% track.

If the track has a lot of straight away, cars with more torque/HP will benefits (e.g. IS350, Corvette etc > Miata, s2k). If the track has a lot more tight slalom, agile lightweight small cars even with less torque/HP will benefit (e.g. Miata, s2k > IS).

Also, putting sticky race tires on ANY car, the lap time will improve. I know tire is part of the car but I just want to make it more specific that the tire contributes a lot to lap time too.
It was a general example of my previous statement; we are saying the same thing.

At any of those local events where the cars are not separated by a specific class, like a PCA or BMW events, it is hard to know and compare the outcome without knowing the event, class and drivers  Obviously there are way too many variables and the discussion and it could go on forever… but to sum it up; you must be a better driver than the other person.

As far as the percentage it is hard to tell; but Driver is definitely 1st and everything else “car related” will be after driver…if you want to get very specific we may need another thread…tires, suspension, weight, width, HP, torque, AWD/RWD/FWD, course design, weather conditions, surface…



Quote:
Originally Posted by azfsprt View Post
Yes that sounds correct!

Many people assume right away that its is mostly just driver but some fail to realize that if you autoX in different locations you will realize that tires, track add a huge wrench in the mix!

As for the OP, yes the strut bar in the back will require you to make cut outs on the foam panels.
Cusco sells them and they are nice and thick bars too that add solid support while being lightweight since its aluminum.
I am sure that every single person that Autox knows that the tires are very important; that is why there are so many class restrictions with tire sizes and compounds.
__Obviously no one is comparing extreme cases, and a the highest level of competition, where the “driver” variable is almost 0, every single detail counts.
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Old 07-07-14, 02:22 PM   #71
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Yeah, you must be a better driver than the other person to win autocross might be too general because a slightly worse driver with much better car can beat a slightly better driver with a worse car.

Anyways, I think most of the members who have posted on this thread, who have autocross, know what were being discussed. Most of us are pretty much saying the same thing but with different way of expressing it.

The longer conversation was to make it clearer to the general public.

Anyone of you also happen to play Gran Turismo 6 ?? Yeah??
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Old 07-07-14, 02:54 PM   #72
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Quote:
Originally Posted by FSportIS View Post
I agree with you to some extend but in autoX, I think it is 40% drivers, 20% car, 20% tire, 20% track.
I like this ratio a lot more than the old 80% driver, 20% car adage. It's especially true when I see Nurburgring lap time comparisons between different vehicles as it really irks me when a manufacturer (or fanboys) brag that their Car "A" is faster than some other brand's Car "B" when in fact their Car "A" was using DOT-Legal R-Compound tires (i.e. vehicles like the Camaro Z/28 and Dodge Viper ACR) while its competition was using higher treadwear summer tires.
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Old 07-07-14, 06:33 PM   #73
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Quote:
Originally Posted by An2ny View Post
Also I remember seeing another test from Edmunds maybe??? Where the IS250 with the sport package put some very competitive numbers.
Yeah, that was the review I was referencing in regards to an IS250/350 equipped with the F-Sport package having slalom and skidpad specs that match the E46 M3. Though the original Edmunds article seems to have gone the way of the doo doo, I did find the same review on other car forums. Here's a snippet of the article on a 2008 IS250 equipped with the F-Sport package and how it matched/exceeded even the big brother IS-F's handling limits:

Quote:
Originally Posted by Edmunds

Handles Like an IS-F

And it turns.

Powerslides are impossible with the big tires and little engine, but this car scorches our track with handling numbers that exceed the performance of the mighty IS-F. No, we're not kidding. This IS runs 71 mph through our slalom and circles our skid pad at 0.89g of lateral grip.

The last IS-F we tested managed 70.2 mph in the slalom and recorded 0.93g on the skid pad.
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Old 07-08-14, 10:42 AM   #74
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Yeah, i saw the same article as well, that was one major factor that led me to buy 2 IS lol.

I think the numbers could have been even HIGHER if they use the Michelin Pilot Super Sport summer tires.
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Old 07-08-14, 10:58 AM   #75
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For those who use the Michelin Pilot SS tires (seems like I've seen some on here already), how
many miles are you getting out of the fronts and rears?

Also, I looked at the lady friend's IS250 (20k miles), and it seems like the FRONTs
are wearing slightly faster, now is this possible on a RWD vehicle? I can tell you on my S2000
the rears wore at least 80-100% faster than the fronts.


Quote:
Originally Posted by FSportIS View Post
Yeah, i saw the same article as well, that was one major factor that led me to buy 2 IS lol.

I think the numbers could have been even HIGHER if they use the Michelin Pilot Super Sport summer tires.
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