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IS250 Carbon Build up CSP

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Old 05-12-14, 12:30 PM   #916
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Boosted, I highly suggest you take a drive up north to lexus of Cerritos and tell them your car feels sluggish and bogs down once in a while. You can even ask for Debbie C. She was my service advisor. She'll know right away about the problem. We just bought a used is250 one week prior and I started to read up on this website and found the carbon problem. I called Cerritos lexus and told them I just bought a one week old used car with 60k on the ODO and asked if they knew about a carbon buildup issue. She said they would provide me a loaner and thoroughly go over the car including the engine. I was in a loaner for 3 days when they called back saying the engine did indeed misfire and it would be covered under the lexus CSP campaign. 3 days later I get my car (wifes car) back and all is well and im told the engine is actually covered for 9 years unlimited mileage for this issue from the original date of purchase. So basically my engine is covered for at least another 4 years. Way to go Lexus!
Thanks so much for the referal information!! My car is currently at longo getting worked on! I am glad yor car got fixed ! Enjoy your new LEXUS!
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Old 05-12-14, 07:25 PM   #917
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has anyone had issues with their a/f sensor and cats going out because of the carbon build up?
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Old 05-12-14, 09:08 PM   #918
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Hello all. First post here. I apologize as I'm sure these questions have been asked, but I recently discovered this board and not sure I'm up for searching through 60+ pages of posts on the subject. I have the rough idle issue, but unfortunately have not been able to get it fixed, so I'm wondering if I have any course of action.

The issue first started in December of 2011. What happened was, I was making a turn at a light, hit the gas to accelerate and the engine started to rumble and sputter, the check engine light came on, and the display showed "Check VSC"(or something like that), and I couldn't go faster than about 30 mph. Got the care home and shut it off, made an appointment at my Lexus dealership for the next day. The next day I brought it in and it ran fine. They did some diagnostics and said something about carbon buildup in the engine that they cleaned out, and added something to my gas tank.

The second time was in December of 2012, and pretty much the exact same symptoms occurred. I shut the car off for a few minutes, restarted it, and drove straight to the dealership. This was not long before the CSP came out about the rough idle issue. I got the letter a week or two after the dealership again checked it out, and called my dealership to ask them about it. They claimed they were doing the testing for the issue, trying to reproduce it. But I was told that since they could not reproduce the issue there, they would not be authorized by Lexus to do the repairs.

Before December of 2011, I had definitely noticed the rough idle when coming to a stop now and then. I have noticed it since then as well. Not often, but it does happen.

I kept thinking I would see the issue again, and the dealership would be able to reproduce it, but that has never happened. However, I have also been reading stuff on here and elsewhere that the reproducing thing isn't necessarily true, and if I have enough of the misfire codes, the dealership should do the repair. So, I have a few questions.

1. Will the misfire codes from the last several years still show up when a tech looks at the vehicle?
2. Should this be enough for the dealership to do the repairs?
3. My dealership is Lexus of Wayzata (Minnesota). Has anyone had this issue repaired there?
4. Is it worth it to find another dealership somewhat nearby to take it to if they have fixed the issue by just finding the misfire codes in the diagnostics?

Thanks in advance for any help.
1. Will the misfire codes from the last several years still show up when a tech looks at the vehicle?

The same events occurred with my 2007. The dealer said that the codes were not stored in the central computer in either event. Since I could not prove the events, there was nothing they could do. I called Lexus corporate directly and received a case number and case manager. After the case manager checked with the dealer, she told me there was nothing they could do. They denied the problem along with communications that many owners had received concerning the problem. Apparently, there is a warranty repair letter concerning the problem. I never received it but received a PDF copy of it from another owner from this group.

2. Should this be enough for the dealership to do the repairs?

Many owners have written that this is enough, however others have written that it is not. My dealer (one of the largest in the Greater Philadelphia Area) told me they are not responsible for any repairs, even though my car was still under warranty and below the mileage limit.

3. My dealership is Lexus of Wayzata (Minnesota). Has anyone had this issue repaired there?

I'm in Philadelphia *so you know not to come here for repairs.

4. Is it worth it to find another dealership somewhat nearby to take it to if they have fixed the issue by just finding the misfire codes in the diagnostics?

The Lexus techs know the codes *one took me aside and told me he knew exactly what the problem is. I told him about the warning lights that illuminated when my car shut down and wouldn't reach 25 MPH. The signal light combination matched exactly with the carbon build-up and piston ring problem. The techs are aware of the problem but are being instructed to mislead customers. Oh, and if you haven't experienced it with your vehicle yet, you will start burning one quart of oil every 1200 miles. They told me this is normal (my car had 73,000 miles on it when it started consuming oil) *of course, you know that burning a quart of oil every 1200 miles in NOT normal for any car.
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Old 05-15-14, 05:10 PM   #919
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1. Will the misfire codes from the last several years still show up when a tech looks at the vehicle?

The same events occurred with my 2007. The dealer said that the codes were not stored in the central computer in either event. Since I could not prove the events, there was nothing they could do. I called Lexus corporate directly and received a case number and case manager. After the case manager checked with the dealer, she told me there was nothing they could do. They denied the problem along with communications that many owners had received concerning the problem. Apparently, there is a warranty repair letter concerning the problem. I never received it but received a PDF copy of it from another owner from this group.

2. Should this be enough for the dealership to do the repairs?

Many owners have written that this is enough, however others have written that it is not. My dealer (one of the largest in the Greater Philadelphia Area) told me they are not responsible for any repairs, even though my car was still under warranty and below the mileage limit.

3. My dealership is Lexus of Wayzata (Minnesota). Has anyone had this issue repaired there?

I'm in Philadelphia *so you know not to come here for repairs.

4. Is it worth it to find another dealership somewhat nearby to take it to if they have fixed the issue by just finding the misfire codes in the diagnostics?

The Lexus techs know the codes *one took me aside and told me he knew exactly what the problem is. I told him about the warning lights that illuminated when my car shut down and wouldn't reach 25 MPH. The signal light combination matched exactly with the carbon build-up and piston ring problem. The techs are aware of the problem but are being instructed to mislead customers. Oh, and if you haven't experienced it with your vehicle yet, you will start burning one quart of oil every 1200 miles. They told me this is normal (my car had 73,000 miles on it when it started consuming oil) *of course, you know that burning a quart of oil every 1200 miles in NOT normal for any car.
Lexus is definitely trying to skirt around the issue, I just went to Lexus and called their corporate office but they don't want to help. I've already had the carbon build up done but talking to other mechanics, the P0420 code is due the carbon build up issue. It's making the cats and sensors go bad. Lexus doesn't want to be responsible for it. It would cost them more than the carbon build up repair.
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Old 05-18-14, 12:54 AM   #920
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There are so many pages to read, but I have an 07 IS250 w/ the common carbon build up but no luck on getting it repair. My buddy has an 06 IS350 and received a recall letter for the issue and recently brought it in the dealer for a repair.

Sorry 250 fellas.
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Old 05-19-14, 07:22 AM   #921
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Luxman-

Thanks much for your response. Seems like maybe my dealership is in the camp of misleading customers.

lexbabe-

I see you're in Minnesota. Did you take your vehicle to Wayzata or Maplewood? You said you've had the repairs done, was the dealership able to reproduce the problem? Thanks.
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Old 05-19-14, 07:56 AM   #922
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Just found out a little more info from a non-Lexus mechanic. He related a very long and involved story that basically said that Lexus, along with other manufacturers, had changed their piston ring technology to a more flexible (actually dynamic) system that allowed rings to expand and contract around the piston and within the cylinder basic result was supposed to be longer engine life and longer warranty to customers. Good idea on paper, but the new design picks up carbon and other engine dirt and sludge, basically sticking the rings in their narrow, unexpanded position. Over time, they stay stuck, and oil migrates into the cylinder where it stays until the compression stroke. When ignited, it burns dirty and leaves oil behind that's where the quart every 1200 miles is going. It also fouls up the sensors, causes rough performance, and builds carbon. The valves then get gunked up, as well as the plugs. Poor performance all around. This fellow was telling me that there's an oil flush procedure (done HOT through multiple fills and drains, which supposedly brings the spring tension back to the piston rings WITHOUT opening the motor for a ring job). He said many domestic models have the problem, and that mechanics across many makes are having success with the procedure. I'm going to try it supposedly $250 for the flush, plus any subsequent parts I know i'm going to need plugs. So, I'll bet I'll get close to $400 all-in. But, I'm going to keep the car, it's only got 79K on it, so I figure it's worth it. If anyone's been as frustrated as I've been, talk to a professional mechanic outside the dealership about this comprehensive oil-flush procedure. I'll post after I've had it done.
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Old 05-19-14, 01:19 PM   #923
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Very nice. Yes keep us updated.
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Old 05-19-14, 01:32 PM   #924
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There are so many pages to read, but I have an 07 IS250 w/ the common carbon build up but no luck on getting it repair. My buddy has an 06 IS350 and received a recall letter for the issue and recently brought it in the dealer for a repair.

Sorry 250 fellas.
Just a heads up I'm pretty sure the recall letter for your friend's IS350 is the Cam Gears, not carbon buildup
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Old 06-06-14, 07:32 AM   #925
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I am beyond pissed right now....had the issue occur on Tuesday, on my way home from work. Check engine light blinking, "Check VSC" on the consol, red warning light on, car wouldn't go over 40 mph.

My home is close to the Lexus dealership, so I decide to try to drive it there, while the condition is occuring. I call them up to see if someone can look at it right away. I get some moron service rep who launches into this long explanation of the problem and how they diagnose it, which I already know, but I let him talk because I'm about 30 minutes away from the dealership anyway. During that time, I do ask him if it's better to bring the car in with the Check Engine light on so they can diagnose it, and he says yes it is. After he finishes with his drivel, I tell him the condition is occuring as he speaks, can I bring it in. it's about 5:30 at that point, and he says they have an appointment available at 6:00, but there wouldn't be enough time to do the diagnostics (they close at 8:00). At that point, he says we can schedule an appiontment, it doesn't matter because they can pull up the history and the misfire codes.

I should have known to tell him that's not happening, I'm bringing it in so someone can look at it, but I agree to the appointment.

Yesterday, I bring it in, the server rep I'm working with asks me if the check engine light is still on. No. No it's not, that's why I asked the idiot on the phone on Tuesday if I should bring it in. He's acting like there's no way they're gonna find anything, but some other service rep who overhears me pipe's in like "It's OK, we can pull up the history, it'll still be there." Whatever.

I wait around for an hour and the guy comes out like, there's nothing wrong with the car. At this point, I'm pissed, and I say, well there's obviously something wrong with the car. He proceeds to tell me they couldn't find any history of the check engine light coming on. Like I made it all up. So I'm either being lied to, or something is wrong with my car's computer system's ability to store it's history. He tells me there's nothing wrong with the car, nothing they can do.

Do I have ANY recourse? I really hope this happens again, I will get plenty of evidence myself that the check engine light was on, and will be going straight to the dealership.
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Old 06-06-14, 02:10 PM   #926
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My understanding is that to perform the piston replacement they have to replicate the issue. I don't think it matters if the check engine light is on or was on, that just provides them with some additional info. It took me 3 times before they were able to replicate it. Wasnt really a big deal, because i got a nice loaner each time. The last time they had the car for 2 days, finally said they were able to replicate it and a week later I got my car back with new pistons. On side note i dont know why your car wouldnt go over 40 mph, that does not seem to be a symptom of carbon buildup. Symptoms are typically shaking/almost stalling out when coming to a stop after high speed, and only last a few seconds. What year/how many miles are on your 250?

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I am beyond pissed right now....had the issue occur on Tuesday, on my way home from work. Check engine light blinking, "Check VSC" on the consol, red warning light on, car wouldn't go over 40 mph.

My home is close to the Lexus dealership, so I decide to try to drive it there, while the condition is occuring. I call them up to see if someone can look at it right away. I get some moron service rep who launches into this long explanation of the problem and how they diagnose it, which I already know, but I let him talk because I'm about 30 minutes away from the dealership anyway. During that time, I do ask him if it's better to bring the car in with the Check Engine light on so they can diagnose it, and he says yes it is. After he finishes with his drivel, I tell him the condition is occuring as he speaks, can I bring it in. it's about 5:30 at that point, and he says they have an appointment available at 6:00, but there wouldn't be enough time to do the diagnostics (they close at 8:00). At that point, he says we can schedule an appiontment, it doesn't matter because they can pull up the history and the misfire codes.

I should have known to tell him that's not happening, I'm bringing it in so someone can look at it, but I agree to the appointment.

Yesterday, I bring it in, the server rep I'm working with asks me if the check engine light is still on. No. No it's not, that's why I asked the idiot on the phone on Tuesday if I should bring it in. He's acting like there's no way they're gonna find anything, but some other service rep who overhears me pipe's in like "It's OK, we can pull up the history, it'll still be there." Whatever.

I wait around for an hour and the guy comes out like, there's nothing wrong with the car. At this point, I'm pissed, and I say, well there's obviously something wrong with the car. He proceeds to tell me they couldn't find any history of the check engine light coming on. Like I made it all up. So I'm either being lied to, or something is wrong with my car's computer system's ability to store it's history. He tells me there's nothing wrong with the car, nothing they can do.

Do I have ANY recourse? I really hope this happens again, I will get plenty of evidence myself that the check engine light was on, and will be going straight to the dealership.

Last edited by tomiv9; 06-06-14 at 02:28 PM..
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Old 06-06-14, 03:28 PM   #927
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^
Agree, doesn't sound like carbon build-up if your car had issues going above a certain speed. The problem has always been when at a stop, or under 5 mph.
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Old 06-06-14, 03:29 PM   #928
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Just dropped mine off at Longo for the rebuild. I had waited for one year to make sure those who've had it done were satisfied.... seems like mostly everyone is. So off to the races. I'll report the results when I get it back next week.
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Old 06-09-14, 06:17 AM   #929
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Fizz, tom-

The shaking and almost stalling is definitely happening. It's when I push the gas to accelerate that the Check Engine light starts flashing and "Check VSC" comes on, etc. At that point, acceleration is minimal. I can probabl go faster than that, but it takes a while to get there.

In any case, I talked to the service manager at my dealership late Friday afternoon. He acknowledged it was difficult to reproduce and also that sometimes they were not finding misfire and check engine codes in the computer system, even though they knew both occurred. In one case they had a video of the check engine light flashing on a car that did not store that event. That seems to be what is happening with mine. I dropped my car off before they weekend, and they are supposedly trying more diagnostics on it today. Hopefully it is able to be replicated.
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Old 06-09-14, 06:18 AM   #930
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Fizz, tom-

The shaking and almost stalling is definitely happening. It's when I push the gas to accelerate that the Check Engine light starts flashing and "Check VSC" comes on, etc. At that point, acceleration is minimal. I can probabl go faster than that, but it takes a while to get there.

In any case, I talked to the service manager at my dealership late Friday afternoon. He acknowledged it was difficult to reproduce and also that sometimes they were not finding misfire and check engine codes in the computer system, even though they knew both occurred. In one case they had a video of the check engine light flashing on a car that did not store that event. That seems to be what is happening with mine. I dropped my car off before they weekend, and they are supposedly trying more diagnostics on it today. Hopefully it is able to be replicated.
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Old 06-09-14, 06:18 AM
 
 
 
 
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