Is this normal? [High idle when cold]
05-26-12, 09:25 AM
#16
Driver School Candidate
Join Date: May 2012
Location: MN
Posts: 16
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
I posted this in another thread detailing my high idle safety concerns:
I checked my email since I sent a few pictures of the gauges to Lexus and the NHTSA. One shows RPMs of 1,800 and moving at 18 MPH, temp gauge showing about 1/3 from the cold mark. The other one taken 2 miles later shows RPMs at 1,000 with 32 MPH showing, and temp gauge showing nearly half way mark, so it upshifted all the while without my foot touching the gas pedal and driving on near flat to slight incline. No kidding! I could post pictures if I knew how.
I checked my email since I sent a few pictures of the gauges to Lexus and the NHTSA. One shows RPMs of 1,800 and moving at 18 MPH, temp gauge showing about 1/3 from the cold mark. The other one taken 2 miles later shows RPMs at 1,000 with 32 MPH showing, and temp gauge showing nearly half way mark, so it upshifted all the while without my foot touching the gas pedal and driving on near flat to slight incline. No kidding! I could post pictures if I knew how.
05-26-12, 09:38 AM
#17
Rookie
Join Date: May 2012
Location: Maryland
Posts: 69
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
High idle (especially upon cold start) is normal on every car. The idle will remain high until the car starts getting live data from the various sensors around the car, then the car goes into what is called 'closed loop' which then runs off of the data your sensors are sending the on board computers. It only takes a few minutes to go into closed loop, but it'll run weird until that point. That's why many people suggest starting your car about 5 minutes before you plan to drive.
05-26-12, 03:08 PM
#19
Driver School Candidate
Join Date: May 2012
Location: MN
Posts: 16
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
I've lived in cold climates my whole life and have driven many different cars - Audis, BMW, Fiat, various GMs, Ford, Jeep, Acura and Jaguar. This is the only one that I constantly fight a very over-bearing high idle. I totally understand the logic behind high idle. I take exception with the level of high idle and the length of time it stays on high idle. No other car has ever been able to cruise along at 30 MPH with no pressure on the gas pedal - while the temp gauge is reporting normal operating temperatures.
For me, this is more than a gripe. My gripes are quite simply the over-bearing "safety" features built into the stereo, GPS, and memory seats. Of course water and snow free falling onto my seats is irritating as others have mentioned.
For me, this is more than a gripe. My gripes are quite simply the over-bearing "safety" features built into the stereo, GPS, and memory seats. Of course water and snow free falling onto my seats is irritating as others have mentioned.
12-19-12, 08:35 AM
#22
Driver School Candidate
Join Date: Oct 2012
Location: WA
Posts: 44
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Just how high is the IS350 suppose to idle when cold, and prior to reaching operating temperature?
It's been less than 40 degrees here this week, and too have noticed my idle abnormally high.
And there really isn't any rhyme or reason to how high its going to idle. Maybe at stop light one, it will idle around 1200. Then three blocks away at the next stop light it will idle at 1500.
While on the freeway one morning this week on the way to work, before the engine was at normal operating temperature, I put the car into neutral (to see high fast the engine was going to rev with no pressure on the gas pedal).
The tachometer was registering 1900 to 2000 RPM! With my foot completely off of the pedal!!
Not one other car I've owned from carburetor equipped late 1960 and early 1970s GM vehicles ever idled that high, even when much colder out. Its been many years since I've owned those cars, but I doubt even with the automatic choke the carbs had, and the high idle setting on the carb for cold temperatures they ever idled at more than 1200 RPM.
Previous fuel injected Hondas and Toyotas never idled much higher than 1100 or 1200 when cold either.
The first time I noticed this in my IS350, was when I was at a stop light and I had to apply a lot more pressure than usual to the brake. I seriously thought my car was going to be a candidate for unintended acceleration.
Does this have anything to do with the engines being direct injected? But if the IS350 motor also has port injection as well, I don't know how this could be attributed to a characteristic of Toyota's DI design.
But at least once the engine reaches normal temperature, idle drops down to around 600.
It's been less than 40 degrees here this week, and too have noticed my idle abnormally high.
And there really isn't any rhyme or reason to how high its going to idle. Maybe at stop light one, it will idle around 1200. Then three blocks away at the next stop light it will idle at 1500.
While on the freeway one morning this week on the way to work, before the engine was at normal operating temperature, I put the car into neutral (to see high fast the engine was going to rev with no pressure on the gas pedal).
The tachometer was registering 1900 to 2000 RPM! With my foot completely off of the pedal!!
Not one other car I've owned from carburetor equipped late 1960 and early 1970s GM vehicles ever idled that high, even when much colder out. Its been many years since I've owned those cars, but I doubt even with the automatic choke the carbs had, and the high idle setting on the carb for cold temperatures they ever idled at more than 1200 RPM.
Previous fuel injected Hondas and Toyotas never idled much higher than 1100 or 1200 when cold either.
The first time I noticed this in my IS350, was when I was at a stop light and I had to apply a lot more pressure than usual to the brake. I seriously thought my car was going to be a candidate for unintended acceleration.
Does this have anything to do with the engines being direct injected? But if the IS350 motor also has port injection as well, I don't know how this could be attributed to a characteristic of Toyota's DI design.
But at least once the engine reaches normal temperature, idle drops down to around 600.
12-19-12, 09:29 AM
#23
Driver
iTrader: (4)
Join Date: Mar 2011
Location: NJ
Posts: 170
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
I've noticed this too. If my car is cold and I'm at a stop of some type, I'll slip it into Neutral.
On a cold start I wait at least 1 minute, sometimes 2, to let the car warm up before driving. Once driving I try to stay under 2K until the car is close to operating temp.
Then stomp on it !
On a cold start I wait at least 1 minute, sometimes 2, to let the car warm up before driving. Once driving I try to stay under 2K until the car is close to operating temp.
Then stomp on it !
12-19-12, 10:21 AM
#24
Driver School Candidate
Join Date: Oct 2012
Location: WA
Posts: 44
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Right.
We had our first snow yesterday morning.
The last thing I need to worry about is my engine racing at 2K when I'm trying to not go fast and the roads are slippery..
But I really don't want to let my car sit and warm up for ten minutes either before taking off out of the driveway. A minute or two is one thing.. but that doesn't really allow the engine to warm up enough for the idle to stabilize.
This is a really weird design feature that has some benefits for cleaner combustion before the engine reaches normal temps. But it would be nice,at the minimum, if this quirk was bypassed when the car was put into snow mode.
We had our first snow yesterday morning.
The last thing I need to worry about is my engine racing at 2K when I'm trying to not go fast and the roads are slippery..
But I really don't want to let my car sit and warm up for ten minutes either before taking off out of the driveway. A minute or two is one thing.. but that doesn't really allow the engine to warm up enough for the idle to stabilize.
This is a really weird design feature that has some benefits for cleaner combustion before the engine reaches normal temps. But it would be nice,at the minimum, if this quirk was bypassed when the car was put into snow mode.
11-06-13, 02:43 PM
#26
Driver School Candidate
Join Date: Nov 2013
Location: Ontario
Posts: 17
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
slightly older post, same problem...
This may be normal for this car, but it is not normal in relation to the 15 other cars or so I have owned. yes, they all maintained a higher rpm at idle when warming up, but not to the extent this car does. And not while in drive with your foot on the brake so hard you think you are going to brake the pedal.
I would say i have had times where my foot was almost to the floor on the brake to keep the car from moving forward at a light. Until the temp gauge runs past the 1/3 to 1/2 mark, I can see the rpms creeping upward upon stop while I am in drive, in the 1000-2000 rpm range. Yes, 2000 rpm while you are in drive with your foot on the brake. This is not a safe thing at all. You really have to pay attention at a light.
Other times, i can be edging slowly in traffic in 1st or 2nd gear and have to apply the brake for slowing traffic and again the rpms will jump and hang higher than I think they should.
My solution has been to throw it in neutral while at a light...but i cannot exactly do this when cruising in rush hour stop and go when the rpms creep up everytime I slow the car down in traffic.
Honestly , i dread driving this car in really cold weather due to this issue. I love the car otherwise. This issue has actually tempted me to sell the car....which I dont really want to do.
I drive my wifes 108 hp nissan versa instead a lot of the winter when I can. If her car had this issue that would be one thing, the nissan has no torque...but in a 306 hp car...not cool.
I am guessing this is an issue with the computer, idle control/warm up routine and or pvc system.
There should be a tsb or a recall on this imo as it is dangerous. I wont let my wife drive my car due to this issue.
It is worth noting that even after a few minutes warm up (5-6 min), after the rpms have settled a bit into the 600 range before driving away, this still happens for quite a few miles.
This may be normal for this car, but it is not normal in relation to the 15 other cars or so I have owned. yes, they all maintained a higher rpm at idle when warming up, but not to the extent this car does. And not while in drive with your foot on the brake so hard you think you are going to brake the pedal.
I would say i have had times where my foot was almost to the floor on the brake to keep the car from moving forward at a light. Until the temp gauge runs past the 1/3 to 1/2 mark, I can see the rpms creeping upward upon stop while I am in drive, in the 1000-2000 rpm range. Yes, 2000 rpm while you are in drive with your foot on the brake. This is not a safe thing at all. You really have to pay attention at a light.
Other times, i can be edging slowly in traffic in 1st or 2nd gear and have to apply the brake for slowing traffic and again the rpms will jump and hang higher than I think they should.
My solution has been to throw it in neutral while at a light...but i cannot exactly do this when cruising in rush hour stop and go when the rpms creep up everytime I slow the car down in traffic.
Honestly , i dread driving this car in really cold weather due to this issue. I love the car otherwise. This issue has actually tempted me to sell the car....which I dont really want to do.
I drive my wifes 108 hp nissan versa instead a lot of the winter when I can. If her car had this issue that would be one thing, the nissan has no torque...but in a 306 hp car...not cool.
I am guessing this is an issue with the computer, idle control/warm up routine and or pvc system.
There should be a tsb or a recall on this imo as it is dangerous. I wont let my wife drive my car due to this issue.
It is worth noting that even after a few minutes warm up (5-6 min), after the rpms have settled a bit into the 600 range before driving away, this still happens for quite a few miles.
12-23-13, 09:08 AM
#27
Driver
Join Date: Jun 2013
Location: Ontario
Posts: 134
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
I'm in Ontario, this will be my third winter in my 2008 IS250 AWD, and I've experienced this exact issue since I've owned the car. I have taken it in to the dealer every year and each year have been told the same thing - that this is normal behaviour for this type of engine and it's within normal operating range.
I really see this as a major safety issue - if I don't apply brakes firmly (or shift into neutral as I usually do) I will almost certainly hit whatever is in front of me. I continue to be shocked that there is no major bulletin or consumer action against Toyota/Lexus either here in Canada or elsewhere for this.
If anyone, especially in Canada, has had any positive responses/action from the dealer on this issue, please share. I do plan on taking this in and having the service manager drive this with me to experience the issue while I'm sitting with him so I can ask him how we feels about this from a safety perspective.
P.S. Specifics on my engine's behaviour: my car is garaged overnight. If the temperature outside is approx. less than 1 (celsius), I will experience this issue. At a stop, engine rpm will go from approx 700 to 1000, at which point car will shake and will require me to apply greater brake pressure to prevent car from moving forward. I generally shift into neutral. This persists for most of my morning commute - i.e. doesn't go away until approx 10 minutes of driving (plus a couple minutes of warm up time).
I really see this as a major safety issue - if I don't apply brakes firmly (or shift into neutral as I usually do) I will almost certainly hit whatever is in front of me. I continue to be shocked that there is no major bulletin or consumer action against Toyota/Lexus either here in Canada or elsewhere for this.
If anyone, especially in Canada, has had any positive responses/action from the dealer on this issue, please share. I do plan on taking this in and having the service manager drive this with me to experience the issue while I'm sitting with him so I can ask him how we feels about this from a safety perspective.
P.S. Specifics on my engine's behaviour: my car is garaged overnight. If the temperature outside is approx. less than 1 (celsius), I will experience this issue. At a stop, engine rpm will go from approx 700 to 1000, at which point car will shake and will require me to apply greater brake pressure to prevent car from moving forward. I generally shift into neutral. This persists for most of my morning commute - i.e. doesn't go away until approx 10 minutes of driving (plus a couple minutes of warm up time).
Last edited by Sfrt; 12-23-13 at 09:13 AM. Reason: added my specific "symptoms"
12-23-13, 10:01 AM
#28
Sfrt , what kind of oil do you use? I use OW20 and it helps a bit , I own an 08 is250 AWD,
this happens to me all the time in the cold , I put the car in neutral if it is not warmed up at the stop light
I also have a car starter so I warm up before I leave
I commute to the GO station almost everyday which is kind of a 5min drive from my house
this happens to me all the time in the cold , I put the car in neutral if it is not warmed up at the stop light
I also have a car starter so I warm up before I leave
I commute to the GO station almost everyday which is kind of a 5min drive from my house
12-23-13, 10:19 AM
#29
Driver
Join Date: Jun 2013
Location: Ontario
Posts: 134
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Minato: not really sure to be honest, whatever the dealer puts in. I'm similar - my commute is just to GO station but a bit longer than your drive. Appreciate your suggestion, will try that on my next oil change for sure.
Sfrt , what kind of oil do you use? I use OW20 and it helps a bit , I own an 08 is250 AWD,
this happens to me all the time in the cold , I put the car in neutral if it is not warmed up at the stop light
I also have a car starter so I warm up before I leave
I commute to the GO station almost everyday which is kind of a 5min drive from my house
this happens to me all the time in the cold , I put the car in neutral if it is not warmed up at the stop light
I also have a car starter so I warm up before I leave
I commute to the GO station almost everyday which is kind of a 5min drive from my house
12-23-13, 01:47 PM
#30
This is perfectly normal. When i start my car (and its cold out) sometimes it goes up to 1750rpm very briefly and then drops to just over a thousand.. once in Drive it will normally sit around or just below 1000rpm (at a red light for instance) until the engine warms up at which point it sits just over 500rpm.