Disappointed In Lexus
12-06-11, 06:21 PM
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Disappointed In Lexus
First let me start this post by mentioning I have 107k miles on my 2007 IS350. 52k were in the first year of ownership. I have had no major mechanical issues with my car, nor should I after investing $44k in a vehicle.
However Lexus has really disappointed me with the design of their door actuators. My driver's side front and rear door actuators have failed and my passenger side front door is now starting to fail as well. Before I come across as a sole complainer of this issue a search on Club Lexus will result in many returns of other club members with door actuator problems. Apparently the problem comes down to a simple motor in the actuator. The motor is available in several ebay auctions for around $5. Why is this then an issue? Well, because from what I have read this used to be a relatively simple motor exchange for owners of Lexus vehicles:
https://www.clublexus.com/forums/gs-...ors-diy-4.html
I purchased four motors and went through the motions to remove the actuators from my car. Once out I discovered that Lexus has changed the actuators that are used on their cars to a newer, much more complex model. Replacing the actuator motor now is a task that car owners can't complete on their own because the new actuator design is much more complex. I discovered this today after five hours and two disassembled doors.
The fundamental problem is an over engineered actuator design and a huge service cost through the dealer. Those of us who are comfortable servicing our own cars are really prohibited from a reasonable repair cost because of the high cost of the actuators.
Lexus really needs a TSB for the door actuators and/or a much more reasonable actuator parts cost. In my case three doors fixed through the dealer will be over $1,500 with no guarantee that the fourth door actuator won't fail in the future, or that the three which are fixed won't have the same problem in a few years.
Many people claim that Toyota/Lexus has a low cost of ownership and is reliable. I argue that the cost of these actuators result in a long term liability equal to or greater that major components in the vehicle.
However Lexus has really disappointed me with the design of their door actuators. My driver's side front and rear door actuators have failed and my passenger side front door is now starting to fail as well. Before I come across as a sole complainer of this issue a search on Club Lexus will result in many returns of other club members with door actuator problems. Apparently the problem comes down to a simple motor in the actuator. The motor is available in several ebay auctions for around $5. Why is this then an issue? Well, because from what I have read this used to be a relatively simple motor exchange for owners of Lexus vehicles:
https://www.clublexus.com/forums/gs-...ors-diy-4.html
I purchased four motors and went through the motions to remove the actuators from my car. Once out I discovered that Lexus has changed the actuators that are used on their cars to a newer, much more complex model. Replacing the actuator motor now is a task that car owners can't complete on their own because the new actuator design is much more complex. I discovered this today after five hours and two disassembled doors.
The fundamental problem is an over engineered actuator design and a huge service cost through the dealer. Those of us who are comfortable servicing our own cars are really prohibited from a reasonable repair cost because of the high cost of the actuators.
Lexus really needs a TSB for the door actuators and/or a much more reasonable actuator parts cost. In my case three doors fixed through the dealer will be over $1,500 with no guarantee that the fourth door actuator won't fail in the future, or that the three which are fixed won't have the same problem in a few years.
Many people claim that Toyota/Lexus has a low cost of ownership and is reliable. I argue that the cost of these actuators result in a long term liability equal to or greater that major components in the vehicle.
12-06-11, 07:13 PM
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So that's it? Door actuators? After 100,000+ miles? Honestly, I find it hard to knock Lexus reliability if that's all you've had problems with. Nobody claimed a zero cost of ownership nor that replacement parts were cheap. Low ownership cost is a relative term and Lexus (compared to other luxury vehicles) is extremely low. Moving parts are going to wear and break down over time. Any part that last 100,000+ miles is not going to be covered by a TSB as it's clearly met it's useful life. I did a search and it seems the problem is very infrequent and met with lots of question each time it's mentioned because so few people on here have had the issue. I'm sorry you're having this problem but to say that Lexus has a quality/reliability issue because of this one issue (you mention no others in your post) is truly a stretch.
12-06-11, 07:24 PM
#5
What's more disappointing is the tendancy for the ML subwoofers to blow (check how much they cost for a replacement and it will just blow again) I managed to retrofit a 8inch kicker but that was really custom but works great.
Now my ballast for the HIDs are acting up on one side and you literally have to remove the headlight and open them up to replace them (Lexus wants to replace the entire headlight assembly - that is $$$ and rediculous)
Now my ballast for the HIDs are acting up on one side and you literally have to remove the headlight and open them up to replace them (Lexus wants to replace the entire headlight assembly - that is $$$ and rediculous)
12-06-11, 07:26 PM
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So that's it? Door actuators? After 100,000+ miles? Honestly, I find it hard to knock Lexus reliability if that's all you've had problems with. Nobody claimed a zero cost of ownership nor that replacement parts were cheap. Low ownership cost is a relative term and Lexus (compared to other luxury vehicles) is extremely low. Moving parts are going to wear and break down over time. Any part that last 100,000+ miles is not going to be covered by a TSB as it's clearly met it's useful life. I did a search and it seems the problem is very infrequent and met with lots of question each time it's mentioned because so few people on here have had the issue. I'm sorry you're having this problem but to say that Lexus has a quality/reliability issue because of this one issue (you mention no others in your post) is truly a stretch.
Edit** "complaining" sorry for the language
Last edited by LJimmy; 12-06-11 at 07:27 PM. Reason: word mispelled
12-06-11, 07:32 PM
#7
So that's it? Door actuators? After 100,000+ miles? Honestly, I find it hard to knock Lexus reliability if that's all you've had problems with. Nobody claimed a zero cost of ownership nor that replacement parts were cheap. Low ownership cost is a relative term and Lexus (compared to other luxury vehicles) is extremely low. Moving parts are going to wear and break down over time. Any part that last 100,000+ miles is not going to be covered by a TSB as it's clearly met it's useful life. I did a search and it seems the problem is very infrequent and met with lots of question each time it's mentioned because so few people on here have had the issue. I'm sorry you're having this problem but to say that Lexus has a quality/reliability issue because of this one issue (you mention no others in your post) is truly a stretch.
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12-06-11, 07:35 PM
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It can be fixed, just not with a $5 part. Replacement actuators are ~$220. Not that that is cheap or anything but it's certainly not going to break the bank. I paid $320 for a new ML sub. I bet that sub goes out before one of my actuators do.
12-06-11, 07:43 PM
#9
Sorry to hear bout your troubles. Don't let it bum you out too much. Repairs that we can't do ourselves and having to take to the stealership can be a pain but overall can you really knock the credibility of Lexus overall? Every car is gonna have problems minor or major especially over time. Hope you get everything worked out
12-06-11, 07:59 PM
#10
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I'm no engineer, but I suspect the reason that they don't use that $5 part is because they are extremely problematic and failed all the time. There are hundreds of threads with 2nd Gen GS (1998-2005) and SC300/400, etc about failed door lock actuators and only 5 or 6 on the 2IS forum that I've seen.
Not to say the new actuator design won't also have problems over time, but the older actuator versions went bad when cars were new off the showroom (happened to me when my 2GS was a year old).
Not to say the new actuator design won't also have problems over time, but the older actuator versions went bad when cars were new off the showroom (happened to me when my 2GS was a year old).
12-07-11, 08:06 AM
#11
Unfortunately you are looking at this from the perspective of the individual that has incurred this cost. In all reality you are complaining about a part that rarely has issues. If you look at the facts; you have put almost 9 years of miles on a 4 year old car based on standard insurance yearly mileage rates. Cars are not measured in years of reliablility but miles. I am curious to know what else you have put in to your car in addition to these repairs. If you have not put anything more than tires, brakes, and other standard maintenance I would be shocked. I would also again tell you that you are looking at this from your perspective having to pay this bill. Good luck
12-07-11, 09:01 AM
#12
I'm sorry to hear about your problems with the car. I would highly recommend you print out all the posts from CL and other 2IS forums from people having this issue (I've seen 1 or 2 on CL), compile them together and bring them to your dealer. Maybe they'll work with you - if not, then they can help get a Lexus corporate representative involved.
I did this with the windshield molding cracking issue - I printed all the pages of posts on CL about it including pictures and brought it to the dealership. They ended up covering it goodwill for me even though it wasn't covered by my CPO warranty. I should of course note two things - 1) this was the dealership that sold the car, and the selling dealership will always be more willing to work with you in order to keep your business in the future, and 2) it was a much less expensive repair than the door actuator one.
Still, I would highly recommend doing this, as it can't hurt, and it might prompt Lexus to split the cost with you or issue a TSIB (though I doubt it for the low prevalence of the issue and late mileage at which it tends to occur). People have done this with the nav issue and gotten it covered at least partially.
People do claim that Toyota/Lexus has a low cost of ownership and is reliable, and they're right. They're right because they're speaking ON AVERAGE. On average, Toyota/Lexus vehicles are more reliable and have fewer issues than other manufacturers' cars. This is borne out in countless surveys, studies, awards, etc.
The door lock actuators do represent a long-term cost ONLY IF THEY FAIL. They happened to fail on your car; they haven't failed on the vast majority of owners' cars.
Across all Toyota/Lexus models, there are going to be cars that have more issues than others. You happened to get one that has apparently had NO issues whatsoever except for the door actuators. And that's over 107k miles.
So keep in mind that people who argue Toyota/Lexus vehicles are reliable are correct, because they're speaking in general about the brands' cars. You happen to be speaking about one particular car they produced. Furthermore, said car has really only had one issue - the door actuators - in 107k miles. You'll find BMW owners who have had HPFPs replaced 5+ times, or worse.
Again, I'm sorry for your issues, but I don't think it's reason to disparage the entire brands because your particular car has had 1 issue, which happened to be fairly expensive and occurred out of warranty. Contact your dealership and Lexus, and maybe you can work something out with them.
I did this with the windshield molding cracking issue - I printed all the pages of posts on CL about it including pictures and brought it to the dealership. They ended up covering it goodwill for me even though it wasn't covered by my CPO warranty. I should of course note two things - 1) this was the dealership that sold the car, and the selling dealership will always be more willing to work with you in order to keep your business in the future, and 2) it was a much less expensive repair than the door actuator one.
Still, I would highly recommend doing this, as it can't hurt, and it might prompt Lexus to split the cost with you or issue a TSIB (though I doubt it for the low prevalence of the issue and late mileage at which it tends to occur). People have done this with the nav issue and gotten it covered at least partially.
The door lock actuators do represent a long-term cost ONLY IF THEY FAIL. They happened to fail on your car; they haven't failed on the vast majority of owners' cars.
Across all Toyota/Lexus models, there are going to be cars that have more issues than others. You happened to get one that has apparently had NO issues whatsoever except for the door actuators. And that's over 107k miles.
So keep in mind that people who argue Toyota/Lexus vehicles are reliable are correct, because they're speaking in general about the brands' cars. You happen to be speaking about one particular car they produced. Furthermore, said car has really only had one issue - the door actuators - in 107k miles. You'll find BMW owners who have had HPFPs replaced 5+ times, or worse.
Again, I'm sorry for your issues, but I don't think it's reason to disparage the entire brands because your particular car has had 1 issue, which happened to be fairly expensive and occurred out of warranty. Contact your dealership and Lexus, and maybe you can work something out with them.
