calvin2376

iTrader: (2)

You're taking the wrong approach if you think you get to "use" your warranty here or "not use" your warranty there, like it's something you get to selectively apply. All you need do is read your contract. You can see below, but the CPO warranty specifically excludes:

Body and Interior:
bumpers, carpet, chrome, dash cover and pad, door trim, handles, fabric, glass (including windshield), headliner, hinges, interior and exterior trim and moldings, cupholders, ashtrays, covers and vents, lightbulbs, nuts, bolts, clips, retainers and fasteners, paint, rust and corrosion damage, seat covers, shiny metals, weather stripping.

This is in the contract you signed. You knew (or should have known) this going in. You might feel something should have been covered that wasn't. But you knew this going in. If it was that big a deal to you, you should have gone without the warranty. Trim and body pieces are almost NEVER covered by anything but the factory new-car warranty. You have every right to be disappointed that your chrome window pieces failed, but NOT because they weren't covered by your warranty - you already knew that was the case before they failed.

You can be upset with Lexus, and you probably should be. I have a CPO warranty and my windshield molding cracked and failed. What did I do? I didn't get upset that the warranty didn't cover it, because I already knew that going in. I contacted my dealer, printed out some CL threads, expressed my dissatisfaction and they fixed it. Otherwise, I'd have done it myself.

I knew trim pieces wouldn't be covered because I read the contract. But the fact that the CPO warranty is an EXCLUSIONARY policy and covered the majority of the car, especially the expensive-to-repair bits, made me feel it was still very worth it.

Don't use "Platinum" as a generic adjective for warranties. "Platinum" describes a specific warranty that Lexus offers: the Platinum Vehicle Service Agreement, or VSA. GMC very well might have had a warranty they called "Platinum" as well, but they're not the same. I can't speak to what was or wasn't covered by GMC's warranty, but it doesn't matter, because they can't be compared.

Lexus' Platinum VSA warranty is very comprehensive, but it is INCLUSIONARY, which I clearly spell out in the Buyer's Guide, so it is not nearly as comprehensive as the CPO warranty which is EXCLUSIONARY.

This is false:

From the website:

Warranty Coverage

The Lexus Certified Pre-Owned Limited Warranty is actually better than some new-vehicle warranties. It's an extensive limited warranty, technically known as an "exclusionary warranty." Starting on your date of purchase, it offers the same coverage and privileges new-car buyers receive. To see what is and isn't covered, view the list below or visit your Lexus dealer for complete details.

The above was taken from this website: http://www.lexus.com/cpo/overview/warranty.html

I have already discussed this at great length in my 2IS Buyer's Guide thread (https://www.clublexus.com/forums/is-...e-threads.html) but I'll repost here:

i) CPO Warranty:

The standard CPO warranty is for 3 years from the date of purchase or until your car reaches 100k miles, whichever comes first. At the time of purchase of a CPO car, you can elect to purchase an extension to your CPO warranty, and you will have your choice of various different lengths of time and mileage limits.

The CPO warranty is an exclusionary warranty, which means it covers everything on the car EXCEPT those items specifically listed. This is in contrast to an inclusionary policy, which covers ONLY those items specifically listed. The former is obviously more attractive, since in general it tends to cover more things.

These are the items that are NOT covered by the Lexus CPO warranty - everything else is covered:

The following components are specifically excluded from coverage under the Lexus Certified Pre-Owned Limited Warranty:

Standard Upkeep Items:
accessory drive belts, batteries, filters, fluids, heating and vacuum hoses, lines and tubes, tires, spark plugs, windshield wiper blades (rubber component).

Wear and Tear:
Examples include brake pads, rotors, shoes and drums and manual clutches.

Body and Interior:
bumpers, carpet, chrome, dash cover and pad, door trim, handles, fabric, glass (including windshield), headliner, hinges, interior and exterior trim and moldings, cupholders, ashtrays, covers and vents, lightbulbs, nuts, bolts, clips, retainers and fasteners, paint, rust and corrosion damage, seat covers, shiny metals, weather stripping.

Accessories:
any non-Lexus accessories or modified components, including but not limited to wheels, radar detectors and cellular phones.

Other:
any component which has not failed, but that a repair facility recommends or requires to be replaced, repaired or adjusted.

This link provides more detail on the Lexus CPO warranty: http://www.lexusfinancial.com/consum...ifitComparison

Everything not listed in blue above IS covered by the CPO warranty. This is the definition of an exclusionary policy.

Please don't post something as a statement of fact when you haven't researched it. The Lexus CPO warranty IS an EXCLUSIONARY POLICY.

I agree that you should make your own decision on whether to purchase a warranty. But above you were just focused on explaining how most of the time, no repairs even come up. Now you're saying you'll end up spending money on the car one way or another?

This isn't the way to look at it. The way to look at it is to do a rational economic assessment of the projected costs and benefits then weight that outcome against your personal preference for risk. End of story.

06isDriver

you are a long winded son of a gun arent you?

I stoppped reading your wall of text after the first few sentences, but I did research the warranty and I thought it listed it as inclusionary. I didnt click the link, and assumed incorrectly, that the listing provided by google was the particular section of text I was looking for. (Powertrain Warranty
This inclusionary warranty covers engine, transmission, transfer case and drive axles. )

So just chill out.

If its exclusionary, so be it. Congratulations, you rule the intenets.

And you will end up spending the money on the car....whether its for gas, oil, insurance, or monthly notes. In fact, 20-25% of most peoples disposable monthly income goes towards a vehicle in whatever form listed above.

So what have we learned here? We learned that getting a warranty is entirely up to the individual circumstances of that purchase.

And we also learned that their are way too many folks looking for the satisfaction of being right no matter the social cost, which is why they most likely argue AD NAUSEUM, on the internet instead of real life.

If you spoke to a person like that in real life, I'd be willing to bet your attitude would have been adjusted in a real way, real quick.

calvin2376

iTrader: (2)

The title of this thread is "Hmmm Should I buy a warranty???" Each of my posts has been to help answer the OP's question, either by 1) explaining what she should take into consideration in her decision (posts 4 and 8), or 2) correcting false statements presented as facts that might otherwise have misled her in her decision (posts 14 and 16). That's all.

calvin2376

iTrader: (2)

No matter what the cash situation, the purchase of a warranty should be based on what I've laid out above, namely the rational economic assessment of costs and benefits weighed against your personal appetite for risk. It doesn't necessarily make perfect sense for someone to buy a warranty merely because they can roll it into a monthly payment; it's still an added cost that needs to be weighed against the perceived benefits. Whether you pay $1000 up front or spread out over monthly payments, the same analysis needs to be done. Actually, the analysis takes on added importance in the latter situation, because if you roll it into monthly payments you're paying interest on it, so the present value of the cost of a warranty that you finance is higher than the cost of a warranty you pay in full up front.

Whether you think you'll have the cash or not is not a good criteria upon which to decide whether to buy a warranty. Take the example of a person who is cash poor (and will be in the future), but who has a high appetite for risk and who doesn't feel his car will need many repairs. Clearly he shouldn't buy a warranty, because it doesn't suit his needs or preferences. And he shouldn't just go ahead and buy it anyway, despite the fact that it doesn't make economic sense for him, merely because he doesn't think he'll have the cash available in the future.

Keep in mind that if you don't buy the warranty, you'll have that cash available to spend on repairs as they come up, regardless of whether you pay in full up front or finance.

One might counter and say "Well what if that cash isn't enough to cover the repair?" That is exactly the reason people buy warranties: to mitigate risk. Not to manage cash flows.

06isDriver

We can agree on this.

but mitigating risk is in a sense, managing your cash flow. If you dont mitigate your risk, your cash flow WILL take a hit if you chose incorrectly.

calvin2376

iTrader: (2)

Definitely.

WHITE93GT

lol make up your minds

I agree with Kurtz(????) Well mostly.

Only buy a warranty if it is LEXUS. Aftermarket warrantys are a joke.

calvin2376

iTrader: (2)

They're really, really not. I've already been over this here: https://www.clublexus.com/forums/6496039-post28.html

I agree that in general, a Lexus warranty is better than an aftermarket warranty, all else equal. But when comparing a Lexus inclusionary (read: limited) warranty to an aftermarket exclusionary (comprehensive) warranty, I would take the aftermarket warranty every time, because it will cover far more things.

For further discussion of aftermarket warranties, see:
https://www.clublexus.com/forums/is-...-warranty.html
https://www.clublexus.com/forums/is-...need-help.html

WHITE93GT

Observations that I noticed from those links:
1. You have a lot of free time on your hand.
2. I would like to see your top 5 aftermarket warraty companies that YOU reccommend.
3. Most people agree that an aftermarket warranty is a waste of money.

From my personal experience, and I was in the automotive service industry for over 20 years, the value of a warranty is not what it claims to cover. The value is in what it actually covers and the ease of getting a claim paid.

For example Hyundai, for many, many years did and still offers a 10 year 100k warranty. In some cases - that I have personally seen - sure they "covered" the repair but the car sat in the back of the dealership for 3-6 months waitng for "parts" or for a "rep" to come by.

Or how about the aftermarket warranty that many dealers won't accept because they don't have hours and hours it takes to sit on the phone and hope a claim gets approved? Or how the warranty company can tell the shop to do steps A-C but stop and call us with what you find, then do C-F and send us some pictures and in a couple of days we will tell you how to proceed?

You come off kind of sounding like an expert, but you appear really just naive. Or like the engineer that is book smart but can't build anything.

I forget the movie but I will try to quote Chris Farley: "I could crap in a box and put a lifetime guarantee on it but it is still a box of crap."

Real world. Real experience. No substitute for that. No matter how pretty the warranty brochure may be.

calvin2376

iTrader: (2)

You raise some very good points at the beginning, and then your post devolves into a rude personal attack. I’m going to focus on the actual issue at hand, if that’s OK.

Nowhere do I claim to be an expert, and for good reason; I’m not. If you read my posts, you’ll see that nowhere do I make a statement or claim that even implies this, nor that would actually require expertise to make.

You’re missing the entire point of my posts. I’m not advocating that everyone go out and buy an aftermarket warranty. Nor am I saying you should choose an aftermarket warranty over a Lexus warranty. The very clear and simple point is merely that you cannot dismiss aftermarket warranties as a whole blindly out of hand, and that in many cases they can be a very good solution for those who either can’t obtain or can’t afford a Lexus warranty.

The only thing that spurred me to comment was seeing statements like the following:

[QUOTE=sktn77a;6495044]Most aftermarket warranty companies go-belly up before the first year is up! QUOTE]

It’s one thing to express your own opinion. It’s another to make a statement like those above and present it as a fact. And it’s especially egregious when that statement is made on the thread of someone considering whether or not to purchase an extended warranty.

If someone’s looking for advice on whether they should purchase an extended warranty or not, baseless and untrue statements like those above in no way help the person asking and can mislead them at a time when they’re asking for genuine advice. All of the above statements are untrue, hyperbolic, and sensationalist.

The part of your post that isn’t a personal attack actually raises very good points about problems to watch out for with aftermarket warranties. You’re right; some aftermarket warranty companies are not prompt in their repairs and payments and might have excessive restrictions you must meet to obtain claim coverage. These are valid points against aftermarket warranties, and making them would have constituted a constructive argument/debate had they replaced the baseless statement “Aftermarket warrantys are a joke”.

I agree with you that the above represent issues that people have had with aftermarket warranty companies. But a few things:

I’m not advocating specific warranty companies. I’m saying that there are warranty companies out there that are reputable and operate exactly as advertised. I have had personal experience with Interstate National Dealer Services and WarrantyDirect, and have known people who have had warranties and great experiences with CARCHEX and NationWarranty. Those are just the ones I know, and they come up as some of the first results if you Google “Auto warranty”. Each has a rating between A- and A+ with the BBB, has been in operating for a long time, and is backed by large, solid, stable, and diversified insurers with huge asset pools as backing. These three criteria are the ones that I would use to judge an aftermarket warranty company for reputation and solvency.

The value of the warranty is in the contract. End of story. It’s not in what the company claims, or what the brochure looks like. An auto warranty brochure is worth nothing, as are the words you hear spoken by the sales representative. It’s all about the contract.

If you’re judging an aftermarket warranty, the first thing you should do is request or download a sample contract and read every word.

If an aftermarket warranty contract states that it covers water pumps, and your water pump fails, your water pump will be covered in the way the contract states. This means the repair will be covered according to the contract’s stated sections on deductible, acceptable time for repair, method and time of payment, etc.

You are absolutely right that a brochure or a claim from an auto warranty company means nothing. Never did I say you should rely on either. I only said you should rely on the contract, which you should read every word of.

And if your auto warranty company doesn’t act in accord with the contract, you have legal recourse to force them to. However, if you do your research up front by using strong criteria by which to judge the company you contract with, you shouldn’t run into this problem. WarrantyDirect, as an example, has an A+ BBB rating, an A AM Best rating, and has been in operation for 25+ years. Do you think that this company would still have those ratings and would still be in operation if it made a habit of acting out of accord with the contracts it signs with customers? This isn’t naivete, it’s economic fact. If an auto warranty company made it a practice to eschew its contractual obligations and deny claims that should have been covered, etc, then that company wouldn’t last very long. I personally can't name a company that's been in operation for 25 years and has an A+ BBB rating that has continually screwed over its customers by blatantly breaching contracts repeatedly.

Aside from the fact that you’re undermining your own argument that manufacturer warranties are always superior to aftermarket warranties by using an example that shows Hyundai’s warranty treatment to be subpar in your opinion, the point you make gets back to the importance of reading the contract. If your contract states that in the case of a covered claim, the company can take up to 6 months to perform and pay for the repair, you probably want to skip that company and find one with better terms. And if your company’s contract states repairs must be done within 5 days and your car’s been at the shop for 6 months, you should obviously be on the phone with the company and then promptly a lawyer. If the warranty company is indeed breaching a clear clause in its contract, you can bet that lawyer will be itching to help.

I appreciate that you have real world experience, but so do I. So do many others on here. I’m not sure why your real world experience trumps mine. You seem to have had poor experiences with aftermarket warranties. I’ve had positive experiences, as have others I know. Why is your experience given more weight than mine or anyone else’s?

Like I stated above, I never claimed to be an expert. But my statements didn’t need to have 40 years of auto warranty expertise behind them to be valid.

My point is not to dismiss aftermarket warranties out of hand. Clearly I prefer a Lexus warranty to an aftermarket warranty all else equal, but the former is not always an option. If you do your research, check out the companies, and read the contracts carefully (you’ll notice this is simply the principle of caveat emptor, which applies in all cases of buying anything, and is no different a process than if you were making a different big purchase) and you can have a positive experience with an aftermarket warranty.