felixsc300

iTrader: (5)

This. I bought my G35 there, at their Eureka lot up in NorCal. They claimed it was clean title with no accidents, yet its been resprayed in four different areas. On top of that I was later told my e-brake clip fell off causing the system to engage randomly while driving, which made the rear rotors to crack. I then spent $1,700 repairing the e-brake clip and replaces the rear rotors and pad just 3 months after I bought the car. Carmax can go burn in hell, I absolutely refuse to give them any of my business and have always encouraged people to stay away. I was a car shopping newb back then, now I've learned a lot from this expensive lesson.

CarFax isn't any much better, the CPO IS350 I bought from Longo has had its front bumper resprayed, yet it shows up with no accidents. I was rear-ended in my G35 last summer and the repairs were done in September, I ran a report two months ago out of curiousity and nothing came up. CarFax is a good starting point, but it cannot be relied upon.

HKS350

iTrader: (4)

Alot of cars get damaged before being registered, so they are fixed by the dealers or the importer. Carfax would never be notified.

I have a family member who runs a autobody shop and 60% of his work comes from dealerships who get in damaged cars from the importer. I'd say 30% of cars are touched up before ever hitting the dealership lots.

marine1342

Well see touch ups are one thing, I get it.
I mean city cars the bumpers are all chewed up but they get repainted (the bumpers) and repaired, but repairs to the point where the frame is messed up?

marine1342

Well Carfax, AutoCheck or CarMax aside the problem I'm having with this is feeling scammed.
Do I trust everything Carmax says, no, take it with a grain of salt. But what doesn't lie is the fact that the report from AutoCheck stated that the car was sold at an auction in florida on
Autocheck
10/24/2011 Accident reported by state agency, no damage reported vehicle was towed
12/28/2010 Auction Announced as Frame Damage
1/19/2011 Motor Vehicle
1/24/2011 Auction announced as Fleet/Lease
1/26/2011 Auction announced as unibody damage
(This parts carfax now)
1/27/2011 Dealer Inventory Vehicle Offered for sale
1/31/2011 Reached Chicago Toyota Dealer (Edited by me for annonymity)
3/2/1011 Dealer offers vehicle for sale
4/1/2011 I purchased car

This is the most recent history on the car. So putting together both the autocheck and the carfax I have the most complete paper history on the car, which sums up to the car was in an accident that wasn't reported to carfax but it was on autocheck and the vehicle was announced as having frame/unibody damage and sold from the auction lot to Toyota in Chicago, which was then sold to me under the pretense that the carfax was clean (which it was since nothing was reported to them) yet more than likely (and this is just my speculation) Toyota knew that the vehicle had frame damage, bought it and did not disclose that information to the buyer (i.e. me)

And to close up the topic of carmax lying or not, I dont personally buy my cars from there, but not sure how they could lie on the vehicle history report when its coming from Autocheck which is a part of Experian. Granted they might be low balling me for the price they want to offer me, but I'm not there to sell my car. Thank you for that insight though.

Carfax I can see, now is not as accurate as they claim it is since not all reports go to carfax. Clearly not even frame damage is reported.

Just very bothered by the fact that I bought a Lexus (which now the A/C has died on me...but thats another story) with frame damage from the parent company Toyota. Putting my trust into Toyota, given the whole safety scare that's been going on (which won't be argued here), I would have figured that they (Toyota and the dealers) would be a hell of a lot more careful about anything that came down to safety concerns.
And yet here I am, with a frame-damaged Lexus from Toyota, whose complete and true vehicle history was not disclosed to me.

marine1342

awd_pwnz if you're shopping for an IS PM me and I'll let you know where I got this from

KillaIS250

iTrader: (1)

Unfortunately, there's nothing that says Toyota/Lexus has to check with both Carfax and AutoCheck before selling a car. They don't take off the bumpers and check for damage underneath either.

If Toyota/Lexus checked the Carfax and it was clean, its down to if they want to help you out purely out of good-will. There's also a lag time between when the note is reported to carfax/autocheck and when its actually proceesed onto the car's record. Toyota/Lexus may very well have checked the autocheck and it had not come up on there yet.

In the end, its your responsiblity (i know, it sucks) to make sure the car your buying is damage free. It's up to you to check all the autochecking companies (They provide Carfax as a courtesy) and its why dealerships will let you take the car to your mechanic to have the vehicle inspected before sale if you want. If you declined to have the car inspected, you can only hope Toyota/Lexus will provide you with some sort of solution just in good will to keep you as a customer for damage that wasn't discovered till later.

calvin2376

iTrader: (2)

Did you check the Lexus service history at Lexus.com? Sign up as an owner, put in your VIN, and see what the Lexus Service History says.

Unfortunately I don't think you've got much of a case here unless you can somehow prove the dealer new about the damage and didn't disclose it. Caveat emptor applies whenever you purchase something, but especially in the case of cars. If the dealer provided a Carfax that was legitimately clean, and that's the reporting service they use, then there's not much recourse you have. If you can somehow prove that the dealer knew about the damage, possibly having uncovered it during an inspection, or if you have documentation showing you asked them explicitly "Has this car ever been in an accident" and they said something like "Definitively no", then you'd have more of a case.

While it's a long thread, I highly suggest you read this: https://www.clublexus.com/forums/is-...cpo-fraud.html. A CL member had a somewhat similar experience in that he bought an IS from a Lexus dealer and took it to a different dealer for warranty work and that dealer said the car had frame damage and therefore they couldn't warranty anything. The thread explains how it played out, but basically he really didn't have much if any legal recourse - he ended up getting to return the car and was out no money, but it was only because the GM of the selling dealership decided independently and on his own to make it right. Lexus/Toyota refused to take action against the dealer or force his hand in any way. His case was stronger though because his car was CPO, and Lexus can't CPO a car with frame damage, and evidence of the accident should reasonably have been expected to arise during the 161-point inspection.

Your steps need to be:

1) Call the original selling dealership, make them aware, explain the situation and that you're not pleased and want to return the car. I didn't read above - did you say you bought an extended warranty on it? Was it a Lexus warranty? I'm not sure Lexus will warranty frame-damaged cars, which means they sold you a warranty that doesn't apply, which would put you in a better arguing position. Ask to speak to the GM and explain your issue and ask that he take care of it (be polite).

2) If he's indignant or you get nowhere, politely explain that you're going to take it up with Toyota, make a complaint to the BBB, and involve a lawyer. Like I said I don't think you have much of a case, because the dealer will claim they had no knowledge of the damage, but the threat of involving a lawyer can sometimes push things your direction.

RastaRacer

iTrader: (5)

thats terrible, i hope everything werks out.

threevoIS

Just a quick tip coming from someone in the business of selling cars. Please dont go into the dealership making demands and acting like an *******. Sit down with someone in management, the used car mgr or general sales mgr is the target here, and just be patient. You purchased the car 2 months ago and let them know you would prefer it if they found you a new vehicle and find a way to trade out of it. You paid for a IS without frame damage, but did not get that.

anthrax144

How much responsibility does Carfax have in all this? I mean, if there clearly was an accident reported against the vehicle as shown by Autocheck, shouldn't Carfax also be reporting that? I know it's probably not going to do any good but it seems to me that Carfax is selling fraudulent information that people are relying upon to make purchase decisions. Just a thought...

KillaIS250

iTrader: (1)

No, Carfax does not have any laibility here. They are sure to write this on the Carfax reports:

A CARFAX Vehicle History Report is based only on information supplied to CARFAX. Other information about this vehicle, including problems, may not have been reported to CARFAX. Use this report as one important tool, along with a vehicle inspection and test drive, to make a better decision about your next used car.

Whatever incidents Carfax gets valid notification of, they put on the report.

Carfax reports are simply a tool to help you make a decision.

PureDrifter

iTrader: (10)

perhaps you should stop relying so much on papers and have an independent body shop or two give you proper diagnoses.

CleverName

Carfax only guarantees the report and your vehicle if you register with them after buying the car. They are independent of the dealership.
As I learned (and the OP discovered), it can sometimes take over 4 months for a major accident to get posted to carfax. I lost several thousand trusting a carfax, and will not do it again without registering the car with them next time.

Best of luck,

Micaiah

What I don't understand is that the Toyota dealership bought it from auction and it clearly states on the paperwork that the car is damaged (hence the reason it's in auction). And because of the CARFAX they are claiming it as a clean car?

Don't the dealership buyers have any idea what they are buying? Surely, being a sister company of Lexus, they would know that getting an IS for what is probably considered cheap would have some kind of problem.

If so, then they sold the car and did not disclose the issue. THAT is wrong.

sktn77a

iTrader: (2)

Dealers can tell when a car has been in a major accident that would damage the frame - that's their job! Car-Fax is not a legally binding document as the reporting isn't consistent or complete (it relies on participation of bodyshops, insurance companies, etc). Call the dealer and tell them of your findings. If they don't play ball go to a lawyer and have them send the dealer a letter. And there's always the local TV station and newspaper's consumer advocate.