Originally Posted by 1SICKLEX

What is this lots of technology? A radio and HD? What about engines, world first dual planetary set CVTs, 8 speed transmissions, platforms, hybrids, paint technology, LEDs, analine leathers, Brembo brakes, radar cruise, carbon fiber, you know the actual car? The LS for instance has 12 world firsts. Everyone offers fantastic radios today, Acura caught up to the old Lexus Nakamichi and now Mark Levinson systems. I said ELS was great, its a great system, not sure why you are even making one link about it again.
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Originally Posted by 1S350IN

I have owned two Lexus IS' and this TL is my second TL. So I am definitely coming from a unique vantage point. I know this is a Lexus IS forum so naturally the responses would favor Lexus. Regarding wood, I opted not to have wood in my IS 350 becuase I simply did not like it. I prefer aluminium trim but that's a personal preference.

Out of all the luxury manufacturers, Lexus certainly does the wood "overkill" thing. BMW rarely uses wood. I think BMW, Infiniti, Audi and Acura have different marketing objectives than Lexus and Mercedes Benz. Lexus is trying to create a premium ownership experience that is less perfornance oriented for their non-niche vehicles. While the others (BMW, Infiniti, Audi, Acura) are gearing more towards sportiness and performance. BMW has definitely been the most successful in that regard.

I agree with you, I don't think people who look at the IS cross-shop the TL. I think customers who look at the TL are more likely to look at the G37, Audi A4, ES 350 and BMW 3 series/ 5 series. The one comment I got as I drove my IS 350 to shop for a new vehicle at BMW and Infiniti dealers was the cramped rear seat and soft Lexus suspension. The infiniti dealer told me he does not even consider the IS a competitor to the G37. When you think about it, the IS is a much smaller car inside than the G37, A4 and BMW 3 series. Another major criticism of Lexus has been its bland styling that look very much Toyota vehicles. Just look at the new HS 250 which was basically developed on the european Toyota Avensis platform, it looks very much like a Toyota Corolla. But styling is in the eye of the beholder.

To your comment about the TL being on the Accord platform, it is simply a very different vehicle. Lexus has several vehicles in it's current lineup that are Toyota vehicles overseas. The first gen IS was a Toyota in Japan. The GS was sold as a Toyota Aristo in Japan for many years as well. The GX is a Land Cruiser Prado in many parts of the world. The LX is essentially the Land Cruiser sold in North America. Yes, the TL is built in Ohio but they use the same quality standards as Honda/Acura in Japan. The RX 350 is built in Canada, the BMW X5 and X6 are both built in South Carolina.

The Acura TL, Infiniti G37 and Lexus IS and ES are all down in sales 30% through October. The reason as you probably know is the bad economy. Is not just Acura, is pretty consistent across the board. Plus, Acura has two closely priced vehicles in the category - the TL and TSX V6. The TSX V6 is new for 2010. So TL customers now have a second option so that could cannibalize sales.

Gas mileage on the IS 350 is 18/25 and 17/25 on the TL SH-AWD so basically no difference.

Styling is obviously very subjective. Look at the BMW 5 and 7 series (designed by Chris Bangle) that were heavily criticized when they launched. Bangle personally took a lot of heat from the press for the styling. The previous gen 7 series and current 5 series turned out be one of BMW's most succesful in its history. Chris Bangle is now known as one of the greatest automotive designers due to his work on the 5 and 7 series. The new Audi grille was also very controversial when it debut a few years ago. Like BMW/Audi, Acura has taken an aggressive and futuristic design approach to its new vehicles (TL and ZDX). Time will tell whether the strategy is working.

I loved my Lexus and will buy another one if I find a vehicle that meets my needs. But the reality is Lexus vehicles are often criticized for lack of sportiness/driving characteristics. However, I think that is the marketing strategy Lexus has decided to pursue on their non-niche vehicles.

Originally Posted by YooNiBaLL

That is well said. What about the Heads up display? although it isn't on an IS, it is still pretty darn cool!

Originally Posted by 1SICKLEX

I agree with a couple points and can easily refute and disprove most of this (again) but why, your mind is made up, you have a new TL. We are talking about the TL-S, a vehicle most here admire while the new TL is something most don't even want to look at (sorry).

There is a reason why Lexus is well, Lexus and a Tier 1, global brand and continues to move upward and expand their lineup and benchmarked in so many areas. In comparison, Acura dropped all Tier 1 plans, it completely lost, selling worse than ever and is not even worth arguing about anymore. When they decide to build something interesting, let me know (and I'm not talking about some cute NAV when a guy in a Yugo can buy a Garmin for $300).

Originally Posted by 1S350IN

Nice try - but Heads Up Display is not really a Lexus first. It's offered in BMWs and even the new Buick LaCrosse. Just pointing it out.

Originally Posted by 1S350IN

Well, I guess we can agree to just disagree but just want to make a few points here. Honestly, Lexus has a different target customer/market from Acura, Audi, BMW, Infiniti. I can't even count the number of times I hear people say Lexus' are not exciting vehicles to drive. I have read several posts this evening in the Club Lexus forums that continue to allude to this. Lexus typically takes a conservative approach. They don't really redefine categories the way Mercedes Benz did with the CLS, BMW did with the X6/5 series Grand Turismo, Infiniti did with the FX and Acura's is doing with the ZDX. I think Lexus targets an older customer base. I think many people in their 20s or 30s who buy luxury vehicles typically do not gravitate to Lexus. They mostly look at Infiniti, BMW, Audi, Acuras and sometimes Mercedes Benz. I have also not been able to find a recent comparison test (within the last year) where the IS 350 sedan was even included. The comparison tests I have found within the last year typically have included the Infiniti G37, Audi A4, BMW 3 series, Acura TL SH-AWD. I guess the IS 350 may not considered a competitor in that segment?

Regarding Lexus moving upwads, Toyota Motor Corp. (Lexus' parent) is really struggling right now. Toyota has been reporting dismal financial results and the company has had a string of safety issues including massive recalls that have been widely reported in the news. Honda (Acura) and Nissan (Infiniti) for the most part are doing much better.