IS 350 vs Acura TL
11-06-09, 06:45 PM
#47
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NSX originally had 270hp and then 290hp with the 3.2l update. HP is not everything especially when the cars are so different. The Lotus Elise only has a 4 cylinder yet can do 0-60 in under 5 seconds. NSX is mid engined where it gets much better traction, is much lighter, and is perfectly geared where it can out accelerate cars with much more hp and bigger engines. The 290hp 3.2l does 0-60 around 4.5-4.8 seconds and has very impressive high end response and acceleration due to Vtec and gearing.
11-06-09, 09:11 PM
#49
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perhaps memory clouds me, but iirc, most racing regulations for cars of the same class stipulate, and all things being relatively equal, that fwd carry no weight penalty, rwd carry a few pounds, and awd carry lots of pounds.. in order to even out the field. at least that's what i remembered of the 90s btcc.
11-06-09, 09:17 PM
#50
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The NSX was never about beating you at the dragstrip. It was about beating you at the track.
Earlier NSXs were low 5 second cars with the 3.0. The updated 3.2 got times in the high 4s.
Yes an IS 350 might be able to "hang" with an NSX in a straight line. However call me biased b/c its one of my favorite cars and IMO one of the greatest road cars of all time and we shouldn't be talking about the NSX here.
Want to drool? Here are pics of a white NSX/IS-F and M3
https://www.clublexus.com/forums/is-...92-m3-nsx.html
Earlier NSXs were low 5 second cars with the 3.0. The updated 3.2 got times in the high 4s.
Yes an IS 350 might be able to "hang" with an NSX in a straight line. However call me biased b/c its one of my favorite cars and IMO one of the greatest road cars of all time and we shouldn't be talking about the NSX here.
Want to drool? Here are pics of a white NSX/IS-F and M3
https://www.clublexus.com/forums/is-...92-m3-nsx.html
11-07-09, 02:09 AM
#51
perhaps memory clouds me, but iirc, most racing regulations for cars of the same class stipulate, and all things being relatively equal, that fwd carry no weight penalty, rwd carry a few pounds, and awd carry lots of pounds.. in order to even out the field. at least that's what i remembered of the 90s btcc.
for many touring cars series, the sanctioning body place a limit on engine displacement, and many teams that utilize a fwd chassis go with a smaller inline engine instead of a big v6 since 1. the smaller inline engines do not produce as much torque as a large v6 - and thus no torque steer, and 2. the smaller inline engines are not as big or heavy as the v6's, and thus create a better weight distribution and balance by itself and even more so when it can be slightly relocated within its engine compartment.
the TL is nose-heavy, and w/ its inherent torque steer, it is no wonder the realtime team uses four-cylinder TSX's in the Speed Touring Car Challenge - not TL's. (that, and they wouldn't qualify per the series' regulations.)
btw, iirc the bmw's were outrunning their fwd competition w/ their inline rwd cars...
11-10-09, 07:30 AM
#52
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acura has done many things right as a luxury japanese brand, especially porting over the same ownership experience and reliability from its parent brand (good fuel economy too). unfortunately, the excitement of driving experience never made it past the type-r series, the s2000, and the nsx. imo this absence is glaringly present in the TL.
while the TL is a much bigger and more spacious car, remember that it was fwd, and thus no transfer/rear axles and rear differential to take up space in the back. sure, it was roomier, but then there's the inherent issue w/ fwd: torque steer. until acura began to offer sh-awd in the new TL's, that was its achilles' heel. even a limited slip differential couldn't fix the torque steer. there was just no way it could imitate the type of handling offered by the rwd variants of the is/2is or the g35/37.
so even though they've finally addressed the torque steer issue w/ sh-awd, another issue has manifested itself: the current exterior styling of the TL is - and apologies if this offends, but this is imo - appalling. at one point in its design iteration it was actually attractive, but it's gone completely southbound with this generation. all its high-tech functions, roominess, and safety ratings can't save it from its exterior styling.
while acura has done an admirable job competing in this segment against the 2is and the g37, there are other issues it needs to address before the TL can even convert 2is or G35/37 owners.
while the TL is a much bigger and more spacious car, remember that it was fwd, and thus no transfer/rear axles and rear differential to take up space in the back. sure, it was roomier, but then there's the inherent issue w/ fwd: torque steer. until acura began to offer sh-awd in the new TL's, that was its achilles' heel. even a limited slip differential couldn't fix the torque steer. there was just no way it could imitate the type of handling offered by the rwd variants of the is/2is or the g35/37.
so even though they've finally addressed the torque steer issue w/ sh-awd, another issue has manifested itself: the current exterior styling of the TL is - and apologies if this offends, but this is imo - appalling. at one point in its design iteration it was actually attractive, but it's gone completely southbound with this generation. all its high-tech functions, roominess, and safety ratings can't save it from its exterior styling.
while acura has done an admirable job competing in this segment against the 2is and the g37, there are other issues it needs to address before the TL can even convert 2is or G35/37 owners.
But driving my IS 350 in the snow was a challenge (even with winter tires). I live in the Midwest where winters are cold with significant amounts of snowfall - so AWD was important to me. However, I didn't want a vehicle that had a cushioned ride like the FWD Lexus ES 350. The TL SH-AWD (super handling AWD) is different from competitive system because it is also designed for dry weather handling and performance. Unlike other AWD systems, the TL SH-AWD transfers up to 100% of rear wheel drive torque to the outer rear wheel and then spins it faster during cornering. For me, it was the best of both worlds - AWD traction with rear wheel-drive like handling.
Regarding styling, "beauty is in the eye of the beholder". It is either you love or hate the exterior design of the new TL. For me, I didn't mind the aggressive design cues of the new TL which is also evident in the soon to be launched Acura ZDX.
The cramped rear seat in the IS was also an issue for me. I'm 6'2 and there was barely any leg room for passengers in the back seat. The TL SH-AWD also has well bolstered sport seats that "hug you" in.
Technology wise - the TL offered me more for the buck than my IS 350. The TL's hard disk drive navigation system is easier to use and responds much quicker than the DVD-based system that was in my IS 350. Plus, the TL allows you to use the nav system while the vehicle is in motion. The nav system in the TL also allows storage on the hard drive of up to 3600 songs.
The TL has real time traffic/weather and Zagat rated restaurant reviews which the IS did not have. The 440 watt ELS 10 speaker surround system in my TL also sounds better that what I had in my IS. Finally, the rear view camera is clearer and has proximity lines for backing up.
Don't get me wrong, I loved my IS 350 particularly its responsiveness and handling. I'm very much looking forward to the next generation IS in a couple years. However, I feel the Acura TL SH-AWD was a much better value than what I had in my Lexus IS 350.
11-10-09, 09:27 AM
#56
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To compare technology between 2006 and 2009 is unfair. Compare a 2009 IS 350 tech to the TL-S 2009. It's the same or better.
In our family, we have a Acura MDX and I must say, about every thing that can break in the interior, has broken. For instance, the clips that move the air conditioner vent around. Broken on every vent except 1. What kind of quality is that...
If you compare a 2009 IS 350 fully loaded with a 2009 TL-S SH AWD fully loaded, the IS 350 would be better. The interior in a Lexus is far more quality (even stated by acura owners) than an Acura. You cannot argue with that.
In our family, we have a Acura MDX and I must say, about every thing that can break in the interior, has broken. For instance, the clips that move the air conditioner vent around. Broken on every vent except 1. What kind of quality is that...
If you compare a 2009 IS 350 fully loaded with a 2009 TL-S SH AWD fully loaded, the IS 350 would be better. The interior in a Lexus is far more quality (even stated by acura owners) than an Acura. You cannot argue with that.
11-10-09, 09:56 AM
#57
To compare technology between 2006 and 2009 is unfair. Compare a 2009 IS 350 tech to the TL-S 2009. It's the same or better.
In our family, we have a Acura MDX and I must say, about every thing that can break in the interior, has broken. For instance, the clips that move the air conditioner vent around. Broken on every vent except 1. What kind of quality is that...
If you compare a 2009 IS 350 fully loaded with a 2009 TL-S SH AWD fully loaded, the IS 350 would be better. The interior in a Lexus is far more quality (even stated by acura owners) than an Acura. You cannot argue with that.
In our family, we have a Acura MDX and I must say, about every thing that can break in the interior, has broken. For instance, the clips that move the air conditioner vent around. Broken on every vent except 1. What kind of quality is that...
If you compare a 2009 IS 350 fully loaded with a 2009 TL-S SH AWD fully loaded, the IS 350 would be better. The interior in a Lexus is far more quality (even stated by acura owners) than an Acura. You cannot argue with that.
Except the 09 lexus nav still completely sucks.
You've got to buy a 2010 ISx50 before you get features that have been common for most of this century on better nav devices.
And even on the 2010 it cripples itself when you put the car in drive unless you wanna hack up your wires.
I agree IS>TL in nearly every regard (and it's why I didn't buy the 07 TL-S I also cross-shopped a couple years ago)- but nav/entertainment tech, not so much.
11-10-09, 10:03 AM
#58
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You can easily buy an override for the NAV and I never really understood HD's if you can just plug your MP3 player in.
I believe the IS moved to HD for 2010 and not CD based Nav? Not sure. Also you the TL is a 70/30 FWD biased split with AWD, Lexus systems are 30/70 RWD biased. We all know the SH is a great feature it has.
Overall this is why there is competition and different brands of cars, people get to chose what fits them best.
11-10-09, 10:28 AM
#59
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To compare technology between 2006 and 2009 is unfair. Compare a 2009 IS 350 tech to the TL-S 2009. It's the same or better.
In our family, we have a Acura MDX and I must say, about every thing that can break in the interior, has broken. For instance, the clips that move the air conditioner vent around. Broken on every vent except 1. What kind of quality is that...
If you compare a 2009 IS 350 fully loaded with a 2009 TL-S SH AWD fully loaded, the IS 350 would be better. The interior in a Lexus is far more quality (even stated by acura owners) than an Acura. You cannot argue with that.
In our family, we have a Acura MDX and I must say, about every thing that can break in the interior, has broken. For instance, the clips that move the air conditioner vent around. Broken on every vent except 1. What kind of quality is that...
If you compare a 2009 IS 350 fully loaded with a 2009 TL-S SH AWD fully loaded, the IS 350 would be better. The interior in a Lexus is far more quality (even stated by acura owners) than an Acura. You cannot argue with that.
To your point about the interior. I agree, Lexus has one of the best interiors but the IS interior falls short of what other Lexus vehicles offer. For example, the front cupholders could have been better executed. Plus, the cramped rear seat of the IS was another draw back from getting another 2G IS. Acura is not really into using wood the way Lexus does. However, their interior materials are very high quality. BMW also does not used plenty of wood like Lexus.
Every vehicle has some kind of quality issue. To say the problems you experienced with your MDX is representative of the entire Acura line is inaccurate. I had a few problems with my IS which the dealership and Lexus corporate were unable to fix despite numerous attempts. Does that mean the IS is an unreliable car in general? I don't think so. My case may have been an insolated case - I don't know for sure.
Regarding technology, it is well known that Acura's offer quite a bit of tech for the money. The automotive press seems to agree with that.
I really liked my IS but there are few things Lexus could do better on the next generation. My last IS was the second one i've had so I'll definitely consider getting another one in future.
11-10-09, 10:28 AM
#60
You can buy an override if you don't mind ordering from japan, paying an extra $300 for it, then taking your dash apart to install it. So I dunno if I'd call that 'easily" compared to a car where it just works in the first place.
I agree with you on the HD thing though, I'm not a big fan of hard drives in things that move/bump around a ton. Solid state memory is cheap enough putting the nav stuff on that would cost virtually nothing, be super fast, and NOT have any moving parts to eventually fail.