Oil Change - 5w-20 or 5w-30? What everyone is using?
08-07-09, 04:01 AM
#46
Some info on the advantages of synthetic over petroleum based motor oil.
Even though petroleum refining is an advanced science, small amounts of contaminants, such as sulfur and reactive hydrocarbons cannot be completely removed from petroleum, and end up in motor oil base stocks. Synthetics base stock are designed in a lab and therefore do not contain these contaminants. So right from the start petroleum oil is contaminated.
Petroleum oil molecules are of varying sizes. So, as a petroleum oil heats up, the smaller molecules begin to burn off. Deposits and sludge are left behind to coat the inside of your engine. In addition, as smaller particles burn off, the larger, heavier molecules are all that is left to protect the engine. Unfortunately, these larger particles do not flow nearly as well and tend to blanket the components of your engine which only exacerbates the heat problem as friction builds-up. Synthetic oils, on the other hand, because they are not purified, but rather designed within a lab for lubrication purposes, are comprised of molecules of uniform size and shape. Therefore, even if a synthetic oil does burn a little, the remaining oil has the same chemical characteristics that it had before the burn off. There are no smaller molecules to burn-off and no heavier molecules to leave behind. Bottom line is synthetics contain almost no contaminants compared to petroleum oils since they are not a refined product. As a result, if oil burn-off does occur, there are few, if any, contaminants left behind to leave sludge and deposits on engine surfaces.
Petroleum oils also contain paraffins (wax), they tend to thicken up considerably in cold temperatures. Additives are used to help keep the oil from thickening too much due to these waxy contaminants. Synthetic oils, on the other hand, contain no paraffins. Therefore, they need no additive to help with cold temperature operation. Moreover, even without the additives, synthetics flow at far lower temperatures than petroleum oils. Remember additives cause contamination!
Since synthetics contain no additives to aid with cold temperature flow, synthetics maintain their cold temperature flow characteristics for a long period of time. Additive depletion is not a factor in the cold temperature flow of synthetic oils. Synthetics do not thicken due to burn-off. So, this is not a factor in cold temperature flow either. Of course, the obvious result is that you don't need to change synthetic oil as often to regain adequate cold temperature flow.
Water causes acids to be created within the oil and corrosion will begin within your engine. So, there are additives in the oil which are designed to combat these acids. Synthetics contain higher quality and a higher quantity of these additives in order to properly neutralize these acids for a longer period of time. These additives do deplete over time, but it takes longer with synthetic oils than with petroleum oils.
Here's a couple important facts; Additives are also used to keep oil contamination in check and to keep it from damaging your engine. These additives keep potentially wear causing contaminants suspended and contained in your oil so they don't cause excessive wear or deposit build-up within your engine before your filter can remove them. Synthetics have higher additive treat rates than petroleum oils (in addition to using higher quality, more expensive, additives), so they can perform this contaminant control function for a much longer period of time than a petroleum oil can.
To control acids the Total Base Number (TBN) describes the acid neutralization ability of an oil, with higher TBN oils providing longer lasting acid neutralization. Synthetics nearly always have higher TBN values than petroleum oils do. The result: longer and better acid neutralization capability allowing for extended drain use.
Every single aspect (which there are many) of what oil provides for your engine is better in synthetic oil, including how long you can use the oil before contamination is a problem. The most important difference is the pour rate. This one aspect is the biggest contributor to engine ware. This is how long it takes the oil to reach vital parts of the engine during start-up (especially when cold). You wouldn’t believe the difference between dino and synthetic. The same difference in this one aspect is typical of ALL the other aspects in dino and synthetic.
Koz
Even though petroleum refining is an advanced science, small amounts of contaminants, such as sulfur and reactive hydrocarbons cannot be completely removed from petroleum, and end up in motor oil base stocks. Synthetics base stock are designed in a lab and therefore do not contain these contaminants. So right from the start petroleum oil is contaminated.
Petroleum oil molecules are of varying sizes. So, as a petroleum oil heats up, the smaller molecules begin to burn off. Deposits and sludge are left behind to coat the inside of your engine. In addition, as smaller particles burn off, the larger, heavier molecules are all that is left to protect the engine. Unfortunately, these larger particles do not flow nearly as well and tend to blanket the components of your engine which only exacerbates the heat problem as friction builds-up. Synthetic oils, on the other hand, because they are not purified, but rather designed within a lab for lubrication purposes, are comprised of molecules of uniform size and shape. Therefore, even if a synthetic oil does burn a little, the remaining oil has the same chemical characteristics that it had before the burn off. There are no smaller molecules to burn-off and no heavier molecules to leave behind. Bottom line is synthetics contain almost no contaminants compared to petroleum oils since they are not a refined product. As a result, if oil burn-off does occur, there are few, if any, contaminants left behind to leave sludge and deposits on engine surfaces.
Petroleum oils also contain paraffins (wax), they tend to thicken up considerably in cold temperatures. Additives are used to help keep the oil from thickening too much due to these waxy contaminants. Synthetic oils, on the other hand, contain no paraffins. Therefore, they need no additive to help with cold temperature operation. Moreover, even without the additives, synthetics flow at far lower temperatures than petroleum oils. Remember additives cause contamination!
Since synthetics contain no additives to aid with cold temperature flow, synthetics maintain their cold temperature flow characteristics for a long period of time. Additive depletion is not a factor in the cold temperature flow of synthetic oils. Synthetics do not thicken due to burn-off. So, this is not a factor in cold temperature flow either. Of course, the obvious result is that you don't need to change synthetic oil as often to regain adequate cold temperature flow.
Water causes acids to be created within the oil and corrosion will begin within your engine. So, there are additives in the oil which are designed to combat these acids. Synthetics contain higher quality and a higher quantity of these additives in order to properly neutralize these acids for a longer period of time. These additives do deplete over time, but it takes longer with synthetic oils than with petroleum oils.
Here's a couple important facts; Additives are also used to keep oil contamination in check and to keep it from damaging your engine. These additives keep potentially wear causing contaminants suspended and contained in your oil so they don't cause excessive wear or deposit build-up within your engine before your filter can remove them. Synthetics have higher additive treat rates than petroleum oils (in addition to using higher quality, more expensive, additives), so they can perform this contaminant control function for a much longer period of time than a petroleum oil can.
To control acids the Total Base Number (TBN) describes the acid neutralization ability of an oil, with higher TBN oils providing longer lasting acid neutralization. Synthetics nearly always have higher TBN values than petroleum oils do. The result: longer and better acid neutralization capability allowing for extended drain use.
Every single aspect (which there are many) of what oil provides for your engine is better in synthetic oil, including how long you can use the oil before contamination is a problem. The most important difference is the pour rate. This one aspect is the biggest contributor to engine ware. This is how long it takes the oil to reach vital parts of the engine during start-up (especially when cold). You wouldn’t believe the difference between dino and synthetic. The same difference in this one aspect is typical of ALL the other aspects in dino and synthetic.
Koz
08-07-09, 04:38 AM
#47
Pole Position
Some info on the advantages of synthetic over petroleum based motor oil.
Even though petroleum refining is an advanced science, small amounts of contaminants, such as sulfur and reactive hydrocarbons cannot be completely removed from petroleum, and end up in motor oil base stocks. Synthetics base stock are designed in a lab and therefore do not contain these contaminants. So right from the start petroleum oil is contaminated.
Petroleum oil molecules are of varying sizes. So, as a petroleum oil heats up, the smaller molecules begin to burn off. Deposits and sludge are left behind to coat the inside of your engine. In addition, as smaller particles burn off, the larger, heavier molecules are all that is left to protect the engine. Unfortunately, these larger particles do not flow nearly as well and tend to blanket the components of your engine which only exacerbates the heat problem as friction builds-up. Synthetic oils, on the other hand, because they are not purified, but rather designed within a lab for lubrication purposes, are comprised of molecules of uniform size and shape. Therefore, even if a synthetic oil does burn a little, the remaining oil has the same chemical characteristics that it had before the burn off. There are no smaller molecules to burn-off and no heavier molecules to leave behind. Bottom line is synthetics contain almost no contaminants compared to petroleum oils since they are not a refined product. As a result, if oil burn-off does occur, there are few, if any, contaminants left behind to leave sludge and deposits on engine surfaces.
Petroleum oils also contain paraffins (wax), they tend to thicken up considerably in cold temperatures. Additives are used to help keep the oil from thickening too much due to these waxy contaminants. Synthetic oils, on the other hand, contain no paraffins. Therefore, they need no additive to help with cold temperature operation. Moreover, even without the additives, synthetics flow at far lower temperatures than petroleum oils. Remember additives cause contamination!
Since synthetics contain no additives to aid with cold temperature flow, synthetics maintain their cold temperature flow characteristics for a long period of time. Additive depletion is not a factor in the cold temperature flow of synthetic oils. Synthetics do not thicken due to burn-off. So, this is not a factor in cold temperature flow either. Of course, the obvious result is that you don't need to change synthetic oil as often to regain adequate cold temperature flow.
Water causes acids to be created within the oil and corrosion will begin within your engine. So, there are additives in the oil which are designed to combat these acids. Synthetics contain higher quality and a higher quantity of these additives in order to properly neutralize these acids for a longer period of time. These additives do deplete over time, but it takes longer with synthetic oils than with petroleum oils.
Here's a couple important facts; Additives are also used to keep oil contamination in check and to keep it from damaging your engine. These additives keep potentially wear causing contaminants suspended and contained in your oil so they don't cause excessive wear or deposit build-up within your engine before your filter can remove them. Synthetics have higher additive treat rates than petroleum oils (in addition to using higher quality, more expensive, additives), so they can perform this contaminant control function for a much longer period of time than a petroleum oil can.
To control acids the Total Base Number (TBN) describes the acid neutralization ability of an oil, with higher TBN oils providing longer lasting acid neutralization. Synthetics nearly always have higher TBN values than petroleum oils do. The result: longer and better acid neutralization capability allowing for extended drain use.
Every single aspect (which there are many) of what oil provides for your engine is better in synthetic oil, including how long you can use the oil before contamination is a problem. The most important difference is the pour rate. This one aspect is the biggest contributor to engine ware. This is how long it takes the oil to reach vital parts of the engine during start-up (especially when cold). You wouldn’t believe the difference between dino and synthetic. The same difference in this one aspect is typical of ALL the other aspects in dino and synthetic.
Koz
Even though petroleum refining is an advanced science, small amounts of contaminants, such as sulfur and reactive hydrocarbons cannot be completely removed from petroleum, and end up in motor oil base stocks. Synthetics base stock are designed in a lab and therefore do not contain these contaminants. So right from the start petroleum oil is contaminated.
Petroleum oil molecules are of varying sizes. So, as a petroleum oil heats up, the smaller molecules begin to burn off. Deposits and sludge are left behind to coat the inside of your engine. In addition, as smaller particles burn off, the larger, heavier molecules are all that is left to protect the engine. Unfortunately, these larger particles do not flow nearly as well and tend to blanket the components of your engine which only exacerbates the heat problem as friction builds-up. Synthetic oils, on the other hand, because they are not purified, but rather designed within a lab for lubrication purposes, are comprised of molecules of uniform size and shape. Therefore, even if a synthetic oil does burn a little, the remaining oil has the same chemical characteristics that it had before the burn off. There are no smaller molecules to burn-off and no heavier molecules to leave behind. Bottom line is synthetics contain almost no contaminants compared to petroleum oils since they are not a refined product. As a result, if oil burn-off does occur, there are few, if any, contaminants left behind to leave sludge and deposits on engine surfaces.
Petroleum oils also contain paraffins (wax), they tend to thicken up considerably in cold temperatures. Additives are used to help keep the oil from thickening too much due to these waxy contaminants. Synthetic oils, on the other hand, contain no paraffins. Therefore, they need no additive to help with cold temperature operation. Moreover, even without the additives, synthetics flow at far lower temperatures than petroleum oils. Remember additives cause contamination!
Since synthetics contain no additives to aid with cold temperature flow, synthetics maintain their cold temperature flow characteristics for a long period of time. Additive depletion is not a factor in the cold temperature flow of synthetic oils. Synthetics do not thicken due to burn-off. So, this is not a factor in cold temperature flow either. Of course, the obvious result is that you don't need to change synthetic oil as often to regain adequate cold temperature flow.
Water causes acids to be created within the oil and corrosion will begin within your engine. So, there are additives in the oil which are designed to combat these acids. Synthetics contain higher quality and a higher quantity of these additives in order to properly neutralize these acids for a longer period of time. These additives do deplete over time, but it takes longer with synthetic oils than with petroleum oils.
Here's a couple important facts; Additives are also used to keep oil contamination in check and to keep it from damaging your engine. These additives keep potentially wear causing contaminants suspended and contained in your oil so they don't cause excessive wear or deposit build-up within your engine before your filter can remove them. Synthetics have higher additive treat rates than petroleum oils (in addition to using higher quality, more expensive, additives), so they can perform this contaminant control function for a much longer period of time than a petroleum oil can.
To control acids the Total Base Number (TBN) describes the acid neutralization ability of an oil, with higher TBN oils providing longer lasting acid neutralization. Synthetics nearly always have higher TBN values than petroleum oils do. The result: longer and better acid neutralization capability allowing for extended drain use.
Every single aspect (which there are many) of what oil provides for your engine is better in synthetic oil, including how long you can use the oil before contamination is a problem. The most important difference is the pour rate. This one aspect is the biggest contributor to engine ware. This is how long it takes the oil to reach vital parts of the engine during start-up (especially when cold). You wouldn’t believe the difference between dino and synthetic. The same difference in this one aspect is typical of ALL the other aspects in dino and synthetic.
Koz
I, personally, have seen 400k+ miles using conventional. I'm sure the 2,000,000 mile Volvo never had synthetic, either, as synthetic wasn't even around in 1966. I just can't imagine anyone losing their engine because they didn't use synthetic oil.
08-07-09, 06:18 AM
#48
Very interesting read. You should also be aware that, regardless of contaminants in conventional motor oil, there has never been, nor will there ever be, any scientific evidence that can prove that synthetic oil will make your engine last longer than conventional oil. There's simply no way to prove that early engine failure is due to the fact that synthetic motor oil wasn't used.
I, personally, have seen 400k+ miles using conventional. I'm sure the 2,000,000 mile Volvo never had synthetic, either, as synthetic wasn't even around in 1966. I just can't imagine anyone losing their engine because they didn't use synthetic oil.
I, personally, have seen 400k+ miles using conventional. I'm sure the 2,000,000 mile Volvo never had synthetic, either, as synthetic wasn't even around in 1966. I just can't imagine anyone losing their engine because they didn't use synthetic oil.
Koz
08-07-09, 09:26 AM
#49
Tech Info Resource
iTrader: (2)
If you follow the OEM recommended OCI and use petroleum based motor oil your engine should last the life of the car. However it has been proven that synthetic oil will provide better protection for a longer period of time, before it breaks down. There is a reason why, even the OEM uses and requires synthetic oil in some high stress engines.
Koz
Koz
There is really only one reason to use synthetics - if you lose oil pressure, a synthetic will let you fix the problem, refill the oil, and run again. With conventional oil, you'll very likely have to rebuild the engine if you lose pressure because the film strength isn't even in the same ballpark as synthetics.
Also, if you run your engine hard (read track day or track weekend) you'll severely stress the oil. Synthetics withstand high heat better than conventional oils, so, again, you'll be able to extend your service life with synthetics.
I run them because I know if I have some sort of lubrication failure, I won't necessarily have to rebuild the engine, I run extended drain intervals, and I don't like varnish inside my engines. Synthetic oils do these things for me where conventional oils won't.
08-07-09, 11:10 AM
#50
Koz and Lobux, just to clarify, when you guys say "synthetic" and its associated benefits over conventional, are you referring only to the boutique ones like Amsoil, Redline, Purple, and German Castrol?
Or would you lump the major brands like Mobil 1, Valvoline SynPower, and Penzoil Platnium into that category as well? I didn't include Castrol Syntec because I've heard people really hate that one...
Or would you lump the major brands like Mobil 1, Valvoline SynPower, and Penzoil Platnium into that category as well? I didn't include Castrol Syntec because I've heard people really hate that one...
08-07-09, 03:51 PM
#55
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Dude this bulletin is DEAD.... it was only for some 2006 model year Lexus vehicle engines
We are in 2009..
Every IS since then has had 5w30 in from the factory..
Including the IS-F and even the 2010 IS-C.
5w30 => its on the Oil Cap and in the Owners Manual
Regards,
Joe Z
08-07-09, 04:15 PM
#57
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12-07-09, 01:39 AM
#58
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I have a 2006 IS350 and the TSIB says "All '06 Lexus" so does that mean i should be using 5w-20 instead of 5w-30? And does it really make a big difference either way?? thanks
12-07-09, 06:47 AM
#59
lol, another oil thread.
if you don't race your car, use conventional (petroleum based, regular, dino, etc.) oil, 5w-30 as the manual states, every 5k miles.
if you plan on racing your engine a lot, use synthetic (any brand).
so, in short, what that means for the most of us (that use our cars for regular transportation) is that we should just follow the damn manual and use regular oil every 5k miles!
even if you put ****ty oil in, the engine will still outlast the other parts of the car.
go get a coupon for a $20 oil change, and be happy you're not wasting your money, which is what you're doing if you put synthetic in
btw, i know plenty of chemical engineers in petroleum companies, and they all tell me, it's just friggin' lubrication. use the dino oil.
if you don't race your car, use conventional (petroleum based, regular, dino, etc.) oil, 5w-30 as the manual states, every 5k miles.
if you plan on racing your engine a lot, use synthetic (any brand).
so, in short, what that means for the most of us (that use our cars for regular transportation) is that we should just follow the damn manual and use regular oil every 5k miles!
even if you put ****ty oil in, the engine will still outlast the other parts of the car.
go get a coupon for a $20 oil change, and be happy you're not wasting your money, which is what you're doing if you put synthetic in
btw, i know plenty of chemical engineers in petroleum companies, and they all tell me, it's just friggin' lubrication. use the dino oil.