IS250 VS. Hyundai genesis
03-03-08, 07:23 AM
#62
Lexus Test Driver
The thing to keep perspective of, is that I don't think many people here are arguing that the Genesis is the second coming of the LS400. There are merely similarities to the 2.
03-03-08, 10:17 AM
#63
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I would hope not. The Genesis looks to be a great car, but also being realistic it's not going to be a game changer in the market.
03-03-08, 10:37 AM
#64
The 1986 Acura Legend, and 1990 Lexus LS400 were segment and even industry changing cars at their time. The NSX was also one. The RX300 for Lexus was a segment changing and industry changing car. These types of cars are far and few between. Cars don't have to be dramatic game changers. All they need to be today is competitive against its competition or just as good. There rarely is a single car out today that is just better in everything than the rest.
Relax! Are you Angry? 
03-03-08, 12:09 PM
#66
Think about that a second--if the car was such a POS, think of how much $$ they'd on warranty claims. They put the 10Y/100K MI warranty in place to help convince buyers that the cars weren't the little crappy cars from their '80s US introduction. 2 Hyundai's were named among Consumer Reports' 10 "Top Picks" in the 4/08 issue--they don't do this if a car doesn't have at least average reliability.
And--there's a major difference between being cheap, and having value. When Lexus was first introduced, it had much value--it was priced 1000s less than German luxury cars (yes--it did have Toyota quality to back it up). Hyundai is taking the same approach--lots of standard featuress for less money. Will the Genesis pull many buyers away from Lexus, Infiniti, MB, BMW, Caddy, etc? I would be skeptical. But, will Avalon, Maxima, Camry, Accord, Lucerne, Taurus, etc. buyers be lured away to buy a car loaded with features not even available on those cars, with way more HP, for comparable $$?--I bet they will.
And, it is well documented that many Hyundai's have quality at or near their Japanese competitors. Anyone who says otherwise just has not done their homework. Sure--there may be criticisms about some hard or cheap plastics in some Hyundai interiors, but we have all seen the same criticism written about Infiniti, MB, BMW, Caddy, and plenty of other lux makes.
And--there's a major difference between being cheap, and having value. When Lexus was first introduced, it had much value--it was priced 1000s less than German luxury cars (yes--it did have Toyota quality to back it up). Hyundai is taking the same approach--lots of standard featuress for less money. Will the Genesis pull many buyers away from Lexus, Infiniti, MB, BMW, Caddy, etc? I would be skeptical. But, will Avalon, Maxima, Camry, Accord, Lucerne, Taurus, etc. buyers be lured away to buy a car loaded with features not even available on those cars, with way more HP, for comparable $$?--I bet they will.
And, it is well documented that many Hyundai's have quality at or near their Japanese competitors. Anyone who says otherwise just has not done their homework. Sure--there may be criticisms about some hard or cheap plastics in some Hyundai interiors, but we have all seen the same criticism written about Infiniti, MB, BMW, Caddy, and plenty of other lux makes.
There is a big difference between what Lexus first introduced and what Hyundai is now offering!
Koz
03-03-08, 12:39 PM
#69
Last i heard the sales where not so great on all the models in my area? i will have to search more on this car but interesting to see they have come around with such a product. so would you say its in direct competition with the new accord? seems to be right in that price range?
03-03-08, 12:48 PM
#70
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are we still comparing hyundai to lexus....hahahaha we must not have anything better to talk about...
lets now compare the ferrari modena to the newly introduced lexus is-f...i would say its an equally dumb comparison, wouldnt you say? but seems to make sense in this thread...
i still stand by my commments. hyundai is a tier 4 brand. depends on what cars are considered
1st tier = exotics (bentley, ferrari, lambo, maserati)
2nd tier = luxury (mb, bmw, lexus, infiniti)
3rd tier = standard (toyota, honda, volks)
4th tier = sub par (kia, mitsubishi, suzuki, hyundai)
lets stop comparing the two because some of you sound foolish...and if you ever made the comparison of hyundai to bmw, lexus, or mb to a car enthusiast they would die of laughter. seriously
lets now compare the ferrari modena to the newly introduced lexus is-f...i would say its an equally dumb comparison, wouldnt you say? but seems to make sense in this thread...
i still stand by my commments. hyundai is a tier 4 brand. depends on what cars are considered
1st tier = exotics (bentley, ferrari, lambo, maserati)
2nd tier = luxury (mb, bmw, lexus, infiniti)
3rd tier = standard (toyota, honda, volks)
4th tier = sub par (kia, mitsubishi, suzuki, hyundai)
lets stop comparing the two because some of you sound foolish...and if you ever made the comparison of hyundai to bmw, lexus, or mb to a car enthusiast they would die of laughter. seriously
03-03-08, 01:15 PM
#71
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It doesn't have to be. I haven't seen a game changing car come out in a long time. Not even the new LS460 is a game or even segment changing car. It is a great car within its segment with some good new features, but nothing that will change the industry standard. Heck, I still think the older Lexus LS400 are better built anyway.
The 1986 Acura Legend, and 1990 Lexus LS400 were segment and even industry changing cars at their time. The NSX was also one. The RX300 for Lexus was a segment changing and industry changing car. These types of cars are far and few between. Cars don't have to be dramatic game changers. All they need to be today is competitive against its competition or just as good. There rarely is a single car out today that is just better in everything than the rest.
The 1986 Acura Legend, and 1990 Lexus LS400 were segment and even industry changing cars at their time. The NSX was also one. The RX300 for Lexus was a segment changing and industry changing car. These types of cars are far and few between. Cars don't have to be dramatic game changers. All they need to be today is competitive against its competition or just as good. There rarely is a single car out today that is just better in everything than the rest.
The LS Hybrid arguably is a game-changing car, at least in Europe. You have BMW and Benz both scrambling to make a hybrid 7 and a hybrid S Class. With emissions rules tightening up in many European countries and congestion charges being introduced, the LS hybrid is the first (and currently only) full-size luxury car that can pass many of those emissions or be exempt from some of the congestion charges.
With the original LS, it was not just the introduction of the LS itself that was game-changing, but also the introduction of the Lexus brand was game-changing. There is no way the 4th gen LS could possibly have the same impact as the Lexus brand is now established, but the Lexus hybrids are single-handedly changing the perception of the Lexus brand in Europe.
03-03-08, 05:18 PM
#73
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And please direct me to the publication that you're citing this "tier" breakdown, I would love to see it.
03-03-08, 05:37 PM
#74
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Naw, you're a tad bit off base. Any TRUE car enthusiast would not rule out that an emerging car maker from an emerging market has the ability to compete with say a Lexus, MB, or BMW.
true german engineering vs. korean engineering...thats a no brainer
And please direct me to the publication that you're citing this "tier" breakdown, I would love to see it.
i.e. you dont compare lexus to maserati or ferarri just like you dont compare hyundai to lexus or bmw...sorry buddy but your fighting a lost cause
03-03-08, 05:57 PM
#75
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Hyudai could have a staff full of german engineers, a few Italians, and probably a few Japanese. Just because they are Korean, does not mean they exclusively employ Koreans.
And if you know so much about the automotive world then surely your familiar with the "Toyota Way", the model of lean production that toyota has perfected since they started in the late 30's, and every major high volume auto manfacturer has studied. Toyota is #2 in the world, and it's no secret how they got there, and they share there philosophy openly on the corporate website and with other manufacturers. Hyundai knows they can't target a market and bring a poorely concieved car. Just look at the compact SUV and mini van market, hyundai is right up there with the best.
Judging from the pictures the Genesis should compete nicely with the afore mentioned cars with very similar features for a lower cost because of where it comes from. If you still think they are the same car maker from the 90's...
I love how people who buy certain brands of cars like to call them selves enthusiasts and ramble on about information that is limited to name brand knowledge... just keep on bragging about your Lexus, it makes you look cool.
based on your approach to this discussion, yeah, it is a lost cause to try and enlighten someone with you're point of view. Thanks for reminding me of just how much I love the "Lexass" attitude.
Last edited by Giggity; 03-03-08 at 06:29 PM.