Dash Rattle FIXED! in 45 minutes have pics
01-19-08, 07:11 PM
#1
Lexus Test Driver
Thread Starter
Dash Rattle FIXED! in 45 minutes have pics
Ok i am sure many of you are as bugged about the rattle in the dash as i was. i actually called the dealer and they told me they would have to remove the whole dash to fix. i told them i was not about to let anyone do that. i knew there was a more simple solution.
first let me identify the rattle. we are talking about a pretty noticable rattle just on top of the dash drivers side near the windshield. it sounds as if somthing is actually tapping the underside of the dash. it could be mistaken to be comming from the windshield. but will stop ratteling if you press on top of the dash.
the cause:
to be honest i am quite dissapointed to find that my 45K car has a dash attached to the car with plastic clips rather than screws like all other cars i have seen. the whole assembly looks like it can be just pulled out of the car once you access the clips.
the actual rattle is caused when the clip at the top front of the dash rattles against it's mount just below the windshield. you can see how crappy of a design this is just by grabbing hold of the dash and pulling and pushing on it you will see it moves about 1/8 inch towards and away from the windshield.
i dont have any way to host pics at the moment but took pics and if someone will host them for me i can insert where appropriate in this post.
here is a pic of the area to modify, the clips are way at the top under the dash and they are white.
first you need to remove the trim bezel around the instrument cluster. there are 2 plastic screws that must be unscrewed about 20 revolutions each (fine thread) and you have to use a #2 phillips that fits snugly into them or you might strip them. be patient they will come out eventually. then you must remove the lower plastic dash panel just above the knee airbag and below the trim bezel, all you need to do is grasp it by the opening around the steering wheel and tug at it. there are about 6 yellow plastic clips holding it in.
next remove the 2 screws holding the lower portion of the trim bezel. after these screws come out you can remove the trim bezel starting from the top and prying gently with a screw driver to get the top of it out of the dash. the remains of the clips that you removed the plastic screws from the center of earlier will pop loose and the rest will pop out quite easily.
next make sure the steering wheel is tilted down to the lowest position and telescoped out as far as it will go. lay a soft towel over the top of the steering column and paddle shifters and through the wheel towards you as the gauge cluster comes out next and you dont want to scratch the smoked plastic front on any of these items.
in the pictures you will see there is a gray plastic clip on the left and a brown one on the right above the insturment cluster. if you stick your finger in there and press up on the tab on each side while pulling the cluster forward it will unsnap easily and come toward you. once you have removed the top the bottom can be pulled forward and gently to remove the whole assembly toward you. at the back top you will find 2 connectors that you can unplug and remove. i found that rotating the cluster to the left and pushing the turnsignal lever to the left or lower position allows a little more room to pivot the unit out from behind the steering wheel.
the pictures show where i installed a metal backstrap by drilling a small hole in the plastic inside the dash next to where the cluster sits and bending an L at the other end where i drilled a small 1/8th hole and a self tapping screw to pull the dash toward and fasten it to the metal structural tube that runs from side to side across the inside of the dash. i had to drill the hole out first with a drill bit because its too hard to tap the screw using a driver drill on a round tube, the drill bit is a little easier to get a hole started.
i suspect if i had let the dealer fix the rattle they would have removed the entire dash and installed felt between the plastic clip described earlier and it's mount. however this method works better because it causes the dash to become solid and not move in the first place. their method would be more or less like a bandaid fix.
by selecting the right hole and a 1" long screw with a fat head on it i was able to tighten the screw untill there was no play (movement) in the dash by tightning the screw and thereby pulling the dash forward towards the windshield until everything was snug.
when i pull on the dash now it doesnt move at all. i was suprised how effective this was. you need to make the bend in the strap close to a hole that will give you about 1/2" away from the tube to draw up the slack. you dont need to measure anything just eyeballing it is just fine. as you can see i mounted my screw about 3/8" from the top of the plastic part on the dash and decided to mount it behind the plastic with a speed clip on the strap to screw it into. this is a good method because these clips prevent the screw from backing out and make for a tight fastener.
you could just as easily install your strap on the front side with a self tapping screw because the plastic is quite thick here and will hold quite well.
after reinstalling everything in reverse order of removal
i test drove the vehicle and it's quiet as can be. i also noticed when i removed the trim bezel around the gauge cluster that the 2 parts were rubbing together leaving a white power residue of worn plastic on both parts. i've also noticed a slight squeek in the dash before but it didnt bother me much and now that's gone also. i think Lexus should have installed a peice of felt between these 2 parts to prevent this in the first place.
anyway if anyone can give me their email address ill send the pics and you can send me the URL's back so i can edit this post and put the pics in.
send your email to bassmechanic@pcisys.net
first let me identify the rattle. we are talking about a pretty noticable rattle just on top of the dash drivers side near the windshield. it sounds as if somthing is actually tapping the underside of the dash. it could be mistaken to be comming from the windshield. but will stop ratteling if you press on top of the dash.
the cause:
to be honest i am quite dissapointed to find that my 45K car has a dash attached to the car with plastic clips rather than screws like all other cars i have seen. the whole assembly looks like it can be just pulled out of the car once you access the clips.
the actual rattle is caused when the clip at the top front of the dash rattles against it's mount just below the windshield. you can see how crappy of a design this is just by grabbing hold of the dash and pulling and pushing on it you will see it moves about 1/8 inch towards and away from the windshield.
i dont have any way to host pics at the moment but took pics and if someone will host them for me i can insert where appropriate in this post.
here is a pic of the area to modify, the clips are way at the top under the dash and they are white.
first you need to remove the trim bezel around the instrument cluster. there are 2 plastic screws that must be unscrewed about 20 revolutions each (fine thread) and you have to use a #2 phillips that fits snugly into them or you might strip them. be patient they will come out eventually. then you must remove the lower plastic dash panel just above the knee airbag and below the trim bezel, all you need to do is grasp it by the opening around the steering wheel and tug at it. there are about 6 yellow plastic clips holding it in.
next remove the 2 screws holding the lower portion of the trim bezel. after these screws come out you can remove the trim bezel starting from the top and prying gently with a screw driver to get the top of it out of the dash. the remains of the clips that you removed the plastic screws from the center of earlier will pop loose and the rest will pop out quite easily.
next make sure the steering wheel is tilted down to the lowest position and telescoped out as far as it will go. lay a soft towel over the top of the steering column and paddle shifters and through the wheel towards you as the gauge cluster comes out next and you dont want to scratch the smoked plastic front on any of these items.
in the pictures you will see there is a gray plastic clip on the left and a brown one on the right above the insturment cluster. if you stick your finger in there and press up on the tab on each side while pulling the cluster forward it will unsnap easily and come toward you. once you have removed the top the bottom can be pulled forward and gently to remove the whole assembly toward you. at the back top you will find 2 connectors that you can unplug and remove. i found that rotating the cluster to the left and pushing the turnsignal lever to the left or lower position allows a little more room to pivot the unit out from behind the steering wheel.
the pictures show where i installed a metal backstrap by drilling a small hole in the plastic inside the dash next to where the cluster sits and bending an L at the other end where i drilled a small 1/8th hole and a self tapping screw to pull the dash toward and fasten it to the metal structural tube that runs from side to side across the inside of the dash. i had to drill the hole out first with a drill bit because its too hard to tap the screw using a driver drill on a round tube, the drill bit is a little easier to get a hole started.
i suspect if i had let the dealer fix the rattle they would have removed the entire dash and installed felt between the plastic clip described earlier and it's mount. however this method works better because it causes the dash to become solid and not move in the first place. their method would be more or less like a bandaid fix.
by selecting the right hole and a 1" long screw with a fat head on it i was able to tighten the screw untill there was no play (movement) in the dash by tightning the screw and thereby pulling the dash forward towards the windshield until everything was snug.
when i pull on the dash now it doesnt move at all. i was suprised how effective this was. you need to make the bend in the strap close to a hole that will give you about 1/2" away from the tube to draw up the slack. you dont need to measure anything just eyeballing it is just fine. as you can see i mounted my screw about 3/8" from the top of the plastic part on the dash and decided to mount it behind the plastic with a speed clip on the strap to screw it into. this is a good method because these clips prevent the screw from backing out and make for a tight fastener.
you could just as easily install your strap on the front side with a self tapping screw because the plastic is quite thick here and will hold quite well.
after reinstalling everything in reverse order of removal
i test drove the vehicle and it's quiet as can be. i also noticed when i removed the trim bezel around the gauge cluster that the 2 parts were rubbing together leaving a white power residue of worn plastic on both parts. i've also noticed a slight squeek in the dash before but it didnt bother me much and now that's gone also. i think Lexus should have installed a peice of felt between these 2 parts to prevent this in the first place.
anyway if anyone can give me their email address ill send the pics and you can send me the URL's back so i can edit this post and put the pics in.
send your email to bassmechanic@pcisys.net
Last edited by Bass Mech; 01-19-08 at 07:30 PM.
01-19-08, 07:27 PM
#2
Intermediate
....
the actual rattle is caused when the clip at the top front of the dash rattles against it's mount just below the windshield. you can see how crappy of a design this is just by grabbing hold of the dash and pulling and pushing on it you will see it moves about 1/8 inch towards and away from the windshield.
......
i suspect if i had let the dealer fix the rattle they would have removed the entire dash and installed felt between the plastic clip described earlier and it's mount. however this method works better because it causes the dash to become solid and not move in the first place. their method would be more or less like a bandaid fix.
.....
the actual rattle is caused when the clip at the top front of the dash rattles against it's mount just below the windshield. you can see how crappy of a design this is just by grabbing hold of the dash and pulling and pushing on it you will see it moves about 1/8 inch towards and away from the windshield.
......
i suspect if i had let the dealer fix the rattle they would have removed the entire dash and installed felt between the plastic clip described earlier and it's mount. however this method works better because it causes the dash to become solid and not move in the first place. their method would be more or less like a bandaid fix.
.....
good for you for figuring it out on your own. the clips are NORMALLY where the noise comes from. you are also correct in your guesses on how the dealer would fix it.
having personally pulled dashes out of IS250's, ES350's, and LS460's recently, it is usually the clips. there is already felt on the clips from the factory. what we do is remove the factory felt and replace it with thicker stuff. there are also other area's pointed out for us to insulate while the dashboard is removed from the vehicle.
i personally do not do this, but i have seen some techs push a peice of 1/4" rubber tubing down between the dashboard and the windshield to create tension on the dash and clips. this normally gets rid of the noise and you cannot see the tube at all, i just dont like the idea of doing this, but it does work. it may be a quicker fix for the diy'er that doesnt want to pull everything apart.
i give you credit for fixing it yourself, im just glad you didnt break anything while removing the interior peices. i hope you dont have any other issues that require a tech from the dealer to go in there and question what has been done though. dont be afraid for someone at the dealer to pull the dash out, especially if its under warranty. they come out easy and if something is damaged on their part, they will fix it. if you damage something, its on you.
good write up though.
on the pictures. i use www.photobucket.com. you can upload your pictures for free and host them on forums and websites. you just have to make an account with them.
Last edited by onepointon; 01-19-08 at 07:33 PM.
01-19-08, 07:45 PM
#4
Lexus Test Driver
Thread Starter
good for you for figuring it out on your own. the clips are NORMALLY where the noise comes from. you are also correct in your guesses on how the dealer would fix it.
having personally pulled dashes out of IS250's, ES350's, and LS460's recently, it is usually the clips. there is already felt on the clips from the factory. what we do is remove the factory felt and replace it with thicker stuff. there are also other area's pointed out for us to insulate while the dashboard is removed from the vehicle. i personally do not do this, but i have seen some techs push a peice of 1/4" rubber tubing down between the dashboard and the windshield to create tension on the dash and clips. this normally gets rid of the noise and you cannot see the tube at all, i just dont like the idea of doing this, but it does work. it may be a quicker fix for the diy'er that doesnt want to pull everything apart.
i give you credit for fixing it yourself, im just glad you didnt break anything while removing the interior peices. i hope you dont have any other issues that require a tech from the dealer to go in there and question what has been done though. dont be afraid for someone at the dealer to pull the dash out, especially if its under warranty. they come out easy and if something is damaged on their part, they will fix it. if you damage something, its on you.
good write up though.
on the pictures. i use www.photobucket.com. you can upload your pictures for free and host them on forums and websites. you just have to make an account with them.
having personally pulled dashes out of IS250's, ES350's, and LS460's recently, it is usually the clips. there is already felt on the clips from the factory. what we do is remove the factory felt and replace it with thicker stuff. there are also other area's pointed out for us to insulate while the dashboard is removed from the vehicle. i personally do not do this, but i have seen some techs push a peice of 1/4" rubber tubing down between the dashboard and the windshield to create tension on the dash and clips. this normally gets rid of the noise and you cannot see the tube at all, i just dont like the idea of doing this, but it does work. it may be a quicker fix for the diy'er that doesnt want to pull everything apart.
i give you credit for fixing it yourself, im just glad you didnt break anything while removing the interior peices. i hope you dont have any other issues that require a tech from the dealer to go in there and question what has been done though. dont be afraid for someone at the dealer to pull the dash out, especially if its under warranty. they come out easy and if something is damaged on their part, they will fix it. if you damage something, its on you.
good write up though.
on the pictures. i use www.photobucket.com. you can upload your pictures for free and host them on forums and websites. you just have to make an account with them.
i know it was acura but i know people are human and it can happen anywahere because in any dealership tech get paid to flag hours rather than getting paid by the hour, this means the faster the tech can get the car in and out the sooner he can get onto the next job, if the job pays 3 hours and he can do it in half that time he can easily flag 16 hours in a 8 hour day.
because of this ive seen several instances where work was done 1/2 ***!
let me just give a few examples.
at the honda dealership on my wifed 96 accord we had to have a seat belt tentioner replaced. to get to it the side panel near the rear seat had to be removed. in the process they broke off the door pin switch and didnt say anything, so i fixed that.
at the honda dealership, took the same car in for an alignment, opend the trunk to find the lower plastic splash guard that goes all the way across the underside front of the car and all the screws, reinstalled the guuard myself.
at the acura dealership had oil changed, 3000 miles later did the next change myself and found they had unplugged the power steering sensor that compensates engine speed at idle when turning the wheels stopped under load. plugged that back in while i was under there.
at the acura dealership had another oil change on another Acura vehicle, 3000 miles later found the 4 10 mm bolts holding the underside splash guard on were screwed in 1/2 way, the funny part is there is no need to remove these bolts to change the oil.
so you see no offense to you, i know your a tech but i also know that if you want somthing done right you pretty much have to do it yourself.
now i still have a seat that creaks and squeeks and i had a tech listen for it last time i took the lexus in (reluctantly) for it's second oil change. tech could not hear anything so i took on a test drive, heard the noise but i didnt have time to leave it again for another day to fix. so ill have to make an appt or ask them to order whatever needs to be ordered to fix. we will see how that goes. stuff like that i will take the car in under warranty because i know i need a part to fix it.
to me, the fewer times i allow somone to work on my car who could care less about their work the better off ill be.
Did it really only take 45 minutes?
01-19-08, 08:48 PM
#6
Lexus Test Driver
Thread Starter
i used to do a lot of this kind of work in the past as a stereo installer so its a peice of cake for me to figure out how to take stuff like this apart without any instructions.
with the help i have provided here i dont think it would take anyone much longer than that.
now that i have done it once i could do it again in about 10 minutes.
with the help i have provided here i dont think it would take anyone much longer than that.
now that i have done it once i could do it again in about 10 minutes.
01-20-08, 07:14 AM
#7
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now i still have a seat that creaks and squeeks and i had a tech listen for it last time i took the lexus in (reluctantly) for it's second oil change. tech could not hear anything so i took on a test drive, heard the noise but i didnt have time to leave it again for another day to fix.
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01-20-08, 08:04 AM
#8
Intermediate
i can understand where you are coming from. i hate people working on my vehicles as well. i have had some bad experiences as well with my motorcycle at a dealership for its first service, and my IS300 while in the care of a NYC parking garage. you are correct, no one cares for your car, or vehicles, like you do.
just keep in mind, a Lexus dealer isnt the same as a Acura/Honda dealer. At my dealership we are on pooled commission hours. the hours i stub in one day dont reflect what i get paid for that day. its the average of all the commission techs for that day. with that, it allows me and all of the other techs to take the time to do the job right. yes, people try to take short cuts (like using rubber hose to dampen a noise), but overall it allows us to not feel completely rushed.
the trick is finding a dealership you can trust. if you have your car repaired and you find something wrong with it at the time you pick it up, say something. its a lexus dealership, they will not send you on your way with something they broke. usually it doesnt even get that far. if i damage something on a car, i have it replaced before i send it out for the customer to have it picked up.
i can appreciate your concern for other people working on your car though.
just keep in mind, a Lexus dealer isnt the same as a Acura/Honda dealer. At my dealership we are on pooled commission hours. the hours i stub in one day dont reflect what i get paid for that day. its the average of all the commission techs for that day. with that, it allows me and all of the other techs to take the time to do the job right. yes, people try to take short cuts (like using rubber hose to dampen a noise), but overall it allows us to not feel completely rushed.
the trick is finding a dealership you can trust. if you have your car repaired and you find something wrong with it at the time you pick it up, say something. its a lexus dealership, they will not send you on your way with something they broke. usually it doesnt even get that far. if i damage something on a car, i have it replaced before i send it out for the customer to have it picked up.
i can appreciate your concern for other people working on your car though.
01-20-08, 08:18 AM
#9
Lexus Test Driver
Thread Starter
i can understand where you are coming from. i hate people working on my vehicles as well. i have had some bad experiences as well with my motorcycle at a dealership for its first service, and my IS300 while in the care of a NYC parking garage. you are correct, no one cares for your car, or vehicles, like you do.
just keep in mind, a Lexus dealer isnt the same as a Acura/Honda dealer. At my dealership we are on pooled commission hours. the hours i stub in one day dont reflect what i get paid for that day. its the average of all the commission techs for that day. with that, it allows me and all of the other techs to take the time to do the job right. yes, people try to take short cuts (like using rubber hose to dampen a noise), but overall it allows us to not feel completely rushed.
the trick is finding a dealership you can trust. if you have your car repaired and you find something wrong with it at the time you pick it up, say something. its a lexus dealership, they will not send you on your way with something they broke. usually it doesnt even get that far. if i damage something on a car, i have it replaced before i send it out for the customer to have it picked up.
i can appreciate your concern for other people working on your car though.
just keep in mind, a Lexus dealer isnt the same as a Acura/Honda dealer. At my dealership we are on pooled commission hours. the hours i stub in one day dont reflect what i get paid for that day. its the average of all the commission techs for that day. with that, it allows me and all of the other techs to take the time to do the job right. yes, people try to take short cuts (like using rubber hose to dampen a noise), but overall it allows us to not feel completely rushed.
the trick is finding a dealership you can trust. if you have your car repaired and you find something wrong with it at the time you pick it up, say something. its a lexus dealership, they will not send you on your way with something they broke. usually it doesnt even get that far. if i damage something on a car, i have it replaced before i send it out for the customer to have it picked up.
i can appreciate your concern for other people working on your car though.
hey im curious, your a lexus tech, how about you spill the beans privatly about how you override the nav so you can program it while driving.. i know they changed the version in 07 where you cannot press the left side of the screen to override but i cannot believe they didnt just access thoes functions another way. there has to be a way to get into the system for a tech to diagnose the system. and i know you either have an answer and are swarn to keep it a secrit, but everyone has their price. whats it going to take?
01-20-08, 02:03 PM
#12
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01-20-08, 06:30 PM
#13
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at least the techs didn't leave the engine oil cap unscrewed, which left the the engine bay a big nasty oxidized mess, or the wheel bolts loose so that one of them fell off a drive wheel while on the freeway
01-21-08, 01:12 PM
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You can see the other pictures that bassmech took at:
http://www.flickr.com/photos/23046471@N03/2210425910/
I kind of see what he did, but I think we'll need a bit more details since it's hard to duplicate this using the photos and the description that he posted. If this does work good work !!!
http://www.flickr.com/photos/23046471@N03/2210425910/
I kind of see what he did, but I think we'll need a bit more details since it's hard to duplicate this using the photos and the description that he posted. If this does work good work !!!
