Gernby

iTrader: (1)

Please refer to my post just above yours. Lexus made it easy (intentionally IMO) to hack the NAV. It isn't hackers that Lexus is trying to protect themselves against. They are just trying to protect themselves from idiots. Lexus would win a lawsuit against someone claiming their NAV system was dangerous AFTER it was hacked.

Regarding your other comments about turning off the seat belt buzzer, give me a break! The only time my seat belt buzzer goes off is when I make the mistake of setting something of significant weight on the passenger seat.

Also, what does TPMS have to do with safety? TPMS is way more about convenience than safety. I've never seen any statistics about how TPMS reduces fatalities.

Evitzee

It is immaterial what Honda/Acura do. We aren't privy to what has happened in the past. Perhaps Toyota/Lexus had the pants sued off them and they lost a case that cost them big $$. And to that they say, 'No more'. Perhaps Honda/Acura didn't have that happen to them, or they got lucky with a jury. We do live in a country where any slight imperfection can result in a lawsuit. I was reading just today of a lawsuit where a 21 year old woman laid out in the sun and she was wearing a bikini that had a metal loop in the center connecting the bikini top. It got hot and she had a burn. Result? .... a two million dollar damage lawsuit against the seller, which was a large mall chain that has deep pockets. Frivolous? Of course. Will it cost the company? Yep. If you get a million dollar lawsuit with a stupid lawsuit like this, you can imagine what the possibilities are with cars. There are plenty of lawyers trolling the universe looking for easy money; breast implants, asbestos, mold, electric power lines, cell phones, all of these have been debunked as serious issues, yet companies have been driven to bankruptcy when juries start awarding actual and punitive damages that are just plain silly. And the trial lawyers have made billions in the process. I'm amazed the high performance cars even exist anymore.

Also, in the motorcycle world Honda is the largest of the four Japanese manufacturers (Honda, Yamaha, Suzuki, Kawasaki), yet they are generally perceived as being the most conservative in design and performance. I think when you are lead dog the way you do things is tempered by your position. That may be why Toyota is cautious. Look what happens to market leaders like WalMart or ExxonMobil. They take potshots for the industry even though their competitors are no better, and often worse, in the way they operate. It's all about perception, and the leader is usually the target.

Magellan

I don’t believe that Lexus made it easy to hack the nav. If that was true they wouldn’t have closed the hack loophole on the 2007 model disks that existed in 2006. But I do agree that they are trying to protect themselves from idiots.

On seat belt buzzers, I was referring to those posts seeking suggestions to turn it off permanently because the driver does not wish to drive with seat belts on. Yes, more idiots here.

And I’m afraid you’re way off on the TPMS issue. To quote from Wikipedia:

There’s no question that the feds made TPMS mandatory on new vehicles in 2004 primarily for safety reasons. And IMHO those who purchase aftermarket rims that no longer have it are compromising safety just for cosmetic reasons. And CL, as a responsible web site, should at least discourage the practice.

socalJD

I believe that TPMS became a mandatory item as a result of the Explorer/Firestone fiasco. Ford blamed tire blowouts for the rollover accidents on their Explorers and Firestone blamed low tire pressure for the tire blowouts . . .

duckduck

If you check the tire pressures regularly, I don't see any problem with having aftermarket rims that don't use TPMS. I for one, check my tire pressures every two months minimum regardless of if the TPMS says I have a warning or not. I would rather trust myself than the TPMS (just in case).

I think TPMS is definitely more a convenience to those who have no idea about car upkeep and safety. Just like how we have a "warning light" to tell us we "need" an oil change (and that we need to go straight to the nearest programmed dealership).

Magellan

Somehow you refuse to recognize that TPMS is a safety feature in spite of the data I presented. I’m not sure why. Do you have aftermarket rims that cannot use the system?

On a personal note, about five months ago, as I was driving home on a freeway, my dash light popped on for the first time since I owned my ’04 G35 coupe. Whereas I do check my tire pressures regularly, I pulled over thinking I was getting a flat. All four tires appeared normal, but I slowed down and limped home anyway. When I got home and checked them with a gauge, sure enough the left-rear was down to 25psi (My system pops on whenever a tire falls below 28psi.). I filled it back up to 32 but by morning it was down again. I took it over a local tire shop and they found a slow leak caused by a nail and fixed it.

This is a good example where TPMS can be an early warning device to something more sinister. Had I not been warned, I could have had a high-speed blow out due to an under-inflated tire and lost my life in the process ala the Firestone fiasco as previously mentioned.

Sure you should check your tires regularly. But TMPS is an effective safety device to alert you to a pending blow out that somehow can occur in between your regular checks. If your aftermarket rims are not compatible with TPMS, then IMHO your safety has been compromised.

lobuxracer

iTrader: (2)

At what cost? $1k per vehicle? How many vehicles got sold last year? So, our government has decided to MANDATE a change to protect us from ourselves at a cost of millions of dollars per year to save 112 souls from an early demise. Besides that, it interferes with natural selection!

What if that same money wasn't wasted but actually put to some good use?

What if we had the option to buy it instead of having it rammed down our throats?

I say this because I believe very strongly that those airbags in the car are the biggest waste of money ever. Period. Had we spent the same money we, as a society, have wasted on airbags that just as easily kill as save; we could have done something directly saving lives that could be counted without statistical manipulation. Had the billions of dollars spent on airbags been used to buy and deploy defibrillators and train people to use them, we'd save FAR more lives.

AFA the memory seat buttons, not only can you not save the settings, but you can't even change from one position to another without the transmission in park. I just tried this over the weekend (again) and it will not move. I can do anything I want with the controls on the side of the seat, but I can't change from one preset to another. That defeats the purpose of having this control on the passenger's side. I can see having the interlock for the driver, especially if the settings are widely different, but the passenger? Come on!

STIG

Be Glad that you have Navigation or I will happily trade mine for you and slove most of your problems.

socalJD

Since Acura was referenced before, let's compare & contrast some more. Acura's driver's memory settings work just as Lexus - you can't set memory buttons unless you're in park with the power on and the memory buttons won't work while in motion (out of Park). That said, Acura doesn't offer memory buttons for the passenger seat, so that functionality is strictly manual (not automatic). Acura's tilt and telescope steering wheel is also manual (not power) so that cannot be tied into the memory settings at all. Pick your poison, not having the functionality at all or being limited in what you can do with the function - I'll stick with Lexus . . .

duckduck

I do not have aftermarket rims that cannot use TPMS. I, in fact, have stock. Sorry, I'm not "an idiot" (as you so like to use).

Somehow, I think you believe everything in Wikipedia to be true. I've gone to the Wikipedia entry, but I could not find any of the sources to quote it. For all I know, it's made up. (Did you know I can go into the Wikipedia entry, and change it to say something like "Adding TPM to all vehicles could avoid 0 of the 533 yearly victims..."). For your sake, I went to NHTSA's website and searched their TPM reports/studies for this statistic. None could be found. And to keep playing along with you, out of the 300 million people in the United States, only 533 died due to tire deflation (I would like to point out that no life is "only", but for the sake of this statistic...). That's 0.0000017766%. For the 120 out of 533 deaths, that's a WHOPPING 22.5%. That's HUGE. But in the perspective of total US population, again it's only 0.0000004%. (What surprises me though, is that there is only 533 yearly deaths due to tire deflation...I honestly thought it would be more. But then again, it looks like there's more injuries than deaths).

While TPMS is "great", I would prefer that you actually educate people on proper car maintenance. Teach people how to drive (like don't slam on the brakes in the middle of a hard turn). Teach people that running tires bald is a horrible idea...not a frugal one. Teach people what to do if their tires blowout (do you know what to do?).

Like I said, TPMS is more of a convenience that an actual necessity. I agree with lobuxracer and say that TPMS should be an option - an option that's good for those who don't know how to properly maintain their cars.

lobuxracer

iTrader: (2)

I would pay for TPMS as an option. My wife drives the car. She already ruined a tire on her Scion because it doesn't have direct pressure reading capability (none of the tCs did until '07 MY). I would be supremely pissed off if she drove off in the IS with a flat tire and ruined both tire and wheel because she doesn't consider looking at the tires before flight a useful and rewarding task. It's really a great feature for her.

I would also pay for the option of being able to manipulate the nav system while in motion, and even sign a declaration indemnifying Lexus for allowing me access to such a dangerous feature.

I would never pay for airbags of any kind.

I would gladly pay for a proper reinforcement to effectively give the car a roll bar, and allow me to use four or five point seat belts safely without wearing a helmet in the car (which strangely enough is illegal in California because it impairs vision and hearing, but the same bunch of guys figured a helmet does not impair vision or hearing while riding a motorcycle - odd, huh?)

socalJD

^^^ I don't understand your issues with airbags. 99% of the time they are tastefully concealed and unintrusive - it's the 1% that they may come in handy and save someone's life. Like your example above, are you convinced your wife will always properly attach a five point safety harness as opposed to having airbags in the car when she jumps in for one of her flights ???

lobuxracer

iTrader: (2)

I've seen the results. In person. My ex drove my '94 Supra into a wall at 60 mph. She was beaten, bruised, and nearly scarred in the face from the bag. My stepdad drove his '68 MB 250 into a brick wall at 60 mph with his three point seat belt on and walked away with only a bruise on his collar bone from the belt. I hate airbags. I am not at all convinced they save more lives than they take, nor am I convinced they are cost effective. Read here.

Yes, my wife will put on her seat belt every time she drives. She's been in an accident, and she's seen the scars I have from an accident in a car without seat belts ('63 Ford Falcon).

15951

I'm not going to get into the airbag debate, but I would like to recommend that your family move to a town with less brick walls.

KKelly

Side airbags actually make more sense to protect you from glass and whacking your head on the pillar.

My biggest concern with the electronics is that you younger guys do want to muck around with them all the time. It is bad enough we have stereos and phones let alone nav screens, menus, video players, etc. All of this just adds to the huge list of distractions. The biggest benefit of tmps is avoiding ruined tires. On my M5 I have had two flats with my 245/40/18's and two ruined tires. They run so well when they are flat you barely notice them and by then you have ruined the tire. My M5 just felt a little squirrley but was otherwise pretty stable (both times a rear tire). I wasn't sure I had a flat until I got out of the car and looked.