Rockville

and MP3 CD's. On the GS system originally we were told this and we then couldn't get it to play MP3 CD's burned at home. I was pleasantly surprised to hear that the IS played the MP3's so that is why I wanted to try the SACD encoded DVD. DVD-A works for sure and I just checked online at Lexus College and SACD is supported too. The GS and IS Mark Levinson systems take the 5.1 and convert it to their 7.1 channel layout. I have a DVD demo disc that has dts 6.1 Discrete tracks from LOTR The Return of the King, Ghost in the Shell 2, and The Crystal Method/Born Too Slow. On Audio only there is LTJ Bukem/Unconditional Love. It has others is 5.1 like Kill Bill, Hero and Blue Man Group. There is nothing OEM that compares to the Mark Levinson in respect to DVD Movie/Audio surround sound. The new VGA monitor should be even more impressive on the IS350/250 Nav.

Percy you have to try a DVD out with 5.1 or better. When you return to other audio sources be sure to turn down the gain as DVD plays quieter than FM etc.

Rock

Cypren

Just to make sure I wasn't misremembering, I just walked out to my car and popped in an SACD that doesn't have a legacy-CD compatibility track on it (Bon Jovi's "Bounce" album, if anyone's wondering, which only has SACD-Stereo and SACD-Surround tracks).

The ML system loads the disc, but does not display a type indicator for it on the associated slot in the audio panel (normally it shows "CD", "DVD-A", "DVD-V", etc) You cannot play it, nor can you do anything other than eject it or switch the active disc. It's worth noting that this is not precisely the behavior you get if you insert something which is not a readable optical disc (such as an upside-down CD) -- in the latter case, the audio panel slot will blink steadily, but in this case, it goes solid just as it would with any normal disc. But in neither case is a disc type displayed, which is the indicator that the table of contents has been identified and read.

I can try this with a few other SACDs when I get home -- I just happened to have the Bon Jovi one in the car to test it with -- but I'm pretty sure it's not just this disc, and the results will be the same.

ES3

A little off track here, but are there on stats on quality or lines of resolution on the VGA screen? Or how does the monitor compare to say a TV, HD or NonHD or niether?

Rockville

and I will try to test it at work on the GS Mark Levinson. I was wondering how I could verify the SACD surround sound if it played the regular CD track but the on screen indicator of disc type would work as you stated. Since you have an IS350 with ML how does the video playback look? It was easy to see the improvement in sharpness when the back up camera is on. The GS was good. The previous LX, and GX and RX screens on the Rear Entertainment versions were the same but they didn't have the 5.1 logic decoder.

Rock

jlin101

saying that the $2k (probably much less) ML in a Lexus does not compare with a dedicated 7.1 home system costing $10k+ is like saying the 7" LCD screen is not as good as your 24" computer monitor or 65" plama TV. If it IS as good, then you got ripped off on your home system. My wife doesn't have the look of Halle Berry, cook like Julia Child, or keep a household like Martha Stewart, but she is easier on the wallet and makes me happy.

terp05

iTrader: (1)

Cypren

Video playback is fine, for an 800x480 screen -- it's not exactly high-rez HD we're talking about here. Actually, the largest problem is that since you're playing movies on the nav touchscreen, it's got fingerprints all over it from use. =)

The movie playback is really just a gimmick as far as I'm concerned, so I haven't really given it a thorough evaluation. It's extremely rare that I'm parked and in the car somewhere long enough to watch a 30 minute TV episode, much less a two hour movie. And I rarely go anywhere without a laptop, which serves as a significantly more effective DVD player. =)

Cypren

No offense, but I think everyone needs to chill over Percy's assessment here. He's grading on a full range scale -- no amateur street basketball player would be insulted if they were told their dribble and jump shot was good enough to make the NBA, but wasn't on level with Michael Jordan. Look at the overall assessment, not just at where he says it's not up to par with an $18k home rig, and realize that stock car audio systems, as a rule, are garbage -- so for one to get any kind of praise from an audiophile (especially one so well versed in the technical details of audio systems) is a major accomplishment.

Rockville

but the system indentified it as a CD. I tried first in an ES330 without Mark Levinson and it worked and gave the title and cut information on the Nav Screen. The dynamic range of the Mark Levinson GS system was like I was listening to a different recording and I heard things that weren't noticable on the ES330's CD player. I have called Torrance about it and will post what they say about SACD's. Thanks all.

Rock

jlin101

I understand your point and appreciate Percy's detailed review, I just don't think it makes much sense to compare an oem car audio system to a dedicated, custom home system; it's like a car magazine reviewer saying that a 911 Turbo is a great car, but not compared to a Porsche GT. The comparison would be valid if it's between ML and other oem systems, or between ML and custom car audio systems of similar cost. And I think a regular NBA player would be offended if he's required to play like MJ, when he is only paid a fraction of ML's salary.

Percy

I actually did listen to another OEM system, the Volvo/Dynaudio. Guess who wins in terms of sound quality? Guesses? But my review was on the ML system and I set a moderate reference point. Guess that's a bit too high for some folks...

And please, no "it's not a grand" thing...we already know it's a good value and it's been beaten to death.

OEM ML/IS350 is good. When compared with a 2 channel home system with some decent speakers, it's not as good. (I'm talking less than a 5k 2 channel system...could even say that about a 1k system/home audio system if done right). Is it the best thing since sliced bread (so to speak)? You decide.

Percy

jlin101

I've never listened to Volvo/Dynaudio, but I would not be surprised if it's better than ML. Does Volvo still use Alpine units? Last time I checked, the Dynaudio system was only available in Volvo's top-of-the-line C70 coupe, which never sold in appreciable numbers, but that's besides the point. Would any car maker ever put the BEST system available in their cars, I doubt it, given the economical constraint. They simply opt for a system deemed adequate for the majority of their buyers, and anyone wanting more can go the aftermarket route. Same way with performance mods.

Percy

Many have tried! Subaru and the new Ford GT (the over 150k$ one) both use McIntosh components but I thought the overall tuning was a bit too "warm". Volvo uses the Dynaudio speakers, but I think you're right on the alpine head units. The speakers are great, but the hu's are tuned to make the tweets sound very bright. Notice I said bright, not harsh or ringing...there's a difference. Then you have the Bose systems on various other cars such as Cadillac, Acura, etc.

"Sir, how much for the ML system?"
"1000 dollars."

"How much for the ML system with the partridge in the pear tree?"
"1000 dollars."

"Great! I'll take the ML with the bird and the tree...best value you know."

And yes, the Volvo/Dyn system is quite a bit more resolving and neutral....

Percy

jlin101

for some odd reason the Dynaudio package (910W, $1550) is available only in C70, and not even the flagship S80. Percy, I've yet to hear a good Bose system. Many car mags have praised the new Bose system in the TL and RL--how are they compared to the ML in IS?

Percy

They don't, imo. I remember the bose in the '99TL that was muddy sounding. Yes, it sounded good to the untrained ear, but when you start to really listen to it, it wasn't very good at all. The ML/IS350 is cleaner, no doubt about it. Once when you get to the fine details of resolving the music, the ML wins out in comparo to the '99TL/Bose. Bose sounded like there was always some cotton or thick cloth covering up the entire presentation.

Still remember when a bud of mine went over to Barretts audio/video. They had a demo board that showed two tower speakers mounted on the wall. Salesperson played some music through them and I thought to myself "muddy...no definition...poor at best..." and my bud thought it was the greatest thing. The tower speakers were actually empty shells and halfway during the presentation, the shells opened up to reveal two small Bose speakers. My bud was amazed at the "sound quality" from the speakers...I was disappointed. He looked at me and said "aren't they great?" I told him... "they're crap Bob." He was always amazed by marketing slicks and hype, especially if the presentation was done right. He'd fall for snake oil everytime.

Funny thing, with the general public, if you mention "high end", they think "pioneer", "bose", "infinity"...then you mention to them "Mark Levinson" or "Linn" and they give you the blankest of looks on their face.

By far the WORST system that I've listened to was my old Pontiac GP. TRANSISTOR RADIOS SOUNDED BETTER! I literally had it in the garage for no more than 5 minutes after I purchased it before I ripped out the grilles and started replacing all the speakers. My family was looking at me like "it's only 5 minutes old...and you're tearing it apart already?!?!"

Percy